[Archived] Exam Results

[Majiball]

I've just watched the supposed record exam results ever, and have to say what I hear frightens me.

1 in 5 is now an A

Pupils now take on average 8 GSCE's

The number of children leaving school with nothing is now less than 10%

Someone I know went back to uni a few years ago she was really worried she would struggle with a lack of knowledge. I caught up with her about 6 months after she had started, she was no longer worried to quote "the things we are learning are more or less the same as what I did at GCSE and A level".

I do worry when I see every year that we have record exam marks, when I did my GCSE's I took 14 of them, now they take 8? A degree course, contains the same info and learning as 14 years ago in school.

I do believe that we are seeing a serious dumbing down of our education system, a way of making the sytem look good. I don't know if anyone else has any experience of this, but it really frightens me. Lowering standards is no way to progress especially when it comes to the future of our children.

[Majiball]

My opinion of this entire issue is that many things have improved over the years, and none more-so than the pressure parents put on kids to go through the entire education system and come out with a degree. When I went to uni I saw no evidence of 'dropping' standards or work being too easy. I found it tough-going, put countless hours and effort in and came out with an average mark (2nd class lower).

People just look at the 'records' and automatically assume that education is getting easier. I don't believe it is.

I was speaking about someone who had been away from education for over ten years and then returned. If you where to progress through education without gaps it would not be noticable.

I am not in anyway putting down the people involved (students), nor criticising the effort you put in.

But the people who set the curriculum and exams, I found what I heard odd, given what I had to do when at school and comparing it to what I heard on the news. When I took my GCSE's they made a change we were the 2nd year group to take them, The government is hardly going to want them to fail, given the fan fair and investment in them. Our teachers told us one thing that will forever stick in my mind "just to let you know mis-spellings will not count against you". Why? to boost grades as the teachers told my parents when they complained.

I merely wanted to know if others had heard or experienced similiar things.

[LeChuck]

People just look at the 'records' and automatically assume that education is getting easier. I don't believe it is.

People say this...but one thing I can ever find an answer for is the terrible standard of written English shown by school kids. You only have to look at these boards as an example (or BBC 606 boards if you want to go hard core), most of the younger members struggle to write properly, but if anyone pulls them up about it they usually reply with "well im gettin a c in me gcses so i aint that fick :P ", or something like that. You'll find similar incompetence in maths as well, it's just not something that's openly on display as often as writing is.

By contrast, you rarely ever see adult members of this site writing semi-literate gibberish...just occasionally when Abbey gets ###### off and gets his caps-lock key stuck.

To be honest, when I started uni I was utterly dismayed at how many people were there that couldn't even write properly. I don't want to sound like a pedantic sod because I know everyone makes mistakes, but it was really shocking. A few of my friends who, to put it nicely, aren't terribly bright managed to get Cs in English A Levels and so on...but even now can't fathom the difference between 'there/their/they're', or which words should have capital letters. I mean, a C at Advanced level should mean that you are competent at an advanced level of learning of the English language...but most really struggle with even the basics.

[Majiball]

How true Lechuck take a calculator away from some of the younger ones and they are lost, even doing it on paper eludes them. Like I said Spelling was irrelevant when I did my exams, why?. Surely spelling is a required talent but I guess with the invention of the spell checker its gone out the window. What is grammar like as well?

You'll notice they say waiting lists are shorter on the NHS, instead they just have more waiting lists. Every year there is improvement, that in its self is odd. I cannot of the top of my head think of many other institutes nor businesses that every year improve, on what they did previously without fail.

The one sticking point for me was the number being taken 8 subjects, it seems so few in comparison.

[LeChuck]

The one sticking point for me was the number being taken 8 subjects, it seems so few in comparison.

It does, I completely forgot to respond to that point.

My brother got his results today and he only took 6 GCSEs. 6! I went to the very same school and came away with 10. Obviously that's one school in which the standards have slipped over the last decade or so, and I'm sure it's not the only one.

[broadsword]

Wasn't there something in the news recently that a Head of English has instructed his staff to stop correcting spelling errors in scripts because it is too time-consuming and stressful, and to view incorrect spellings as acceptable alternative spellings?

Here we go ...

http://living.scotsman.com/features/Ruth-w...sity.4396459.jp

[LeChuck]

http://living.scotsman.com/features/Ruth-w...sity.4396459.jp

Cheers for that Bryan, that's a good article. I mean, infuriating as hell, but good nonetheless. To be fair, it shouldn't be up to university lecturers to be correcting spelling mistakes, that should have been learned many years before then.

I loved the one and only comment from that article:

"Ruth I am right there with you,no excuse for bad spelling, though must admit I firmly believe spelling cannot be taught.It is an innate talent."

Spelling cannot be taught? That's the silliest thing I've read since I ventured in to the 'record signing' topic on the main board.

[Hannah]

Spelling cannot be taught? That's the silliest thing I've read since I ventured in to the 'record signing' topic on the main board.

From someone who has actually spent the day writing a policy for the teaching of spelling and a scheme of work I really hope that isn't the case!!!

[thenodrog]

Don't be so scathing you lot! Kids nowawadays have simply evolved at a faster rate than was ever thought possible. Every year they can now manage to condense 100,000 years of evolution into 12 months.

..... Oh and of course teachers have done the same!

Shame really cos when youngsters tell me their results I struggle to be bothered congratulating them.

[Wiggy]

edited

[American Rover12]

Bunch of crotchety old hags you lot are.

Edit: because some people live and die by the implications of a smiley.

[colin]

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe.

Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Ah Colin, every year they trout out the old "exams are getting easier" excuses.

Maybe it's just defensiveness because "kids" have done better than them?

Best to ignore 'em.

[LeChuck]

Colin, no-one was implying in any way your niece in inadequate, that post wasn't really called for...that last sentence would look a whole lot worse if you hadn't decided to put it down as an initialism. I'm sure she's incredibly bright, and the problem with the system now is that because A grades are easier to get than before, it's doing a disservice to the genuinely gifted people because so many other people are also achieving top grades. I can say this quite honestly because I know how little work I, and others I know, did to get them.

One point to consider though...I think having B grades might make it tough to get in to Oxbridge. They turn down straight A students every year. I only know one girl who has managed to get in there (Cambridge to be precise) and she had all A*s except for 2, which were As. Then straight As at A Level obviously. I know a few people with less A*s that were turned away, although how big a part their own entrance tests have to play in that I have no idea. Unfortunately the type school plays a huge part as well - needlessly to say the aforementioned girl has a private boarding school education.

Sorry for that...but it a post won't fit on to a Rovers board without a bit of a moan and a dash of pessimism.

[grizfoot]

I recentley got my A level results not outstanding but I was pleased with them.

What I have noticed is that there's a great deal of difference in terms of difficult between different subjects. For example subjects like Physics, Computing and Maths are difficult but then there's subjects like Dance, Drama and General Studies which in my opinion are relatively easy to pass.

I got full marks on my last English Language exam and I admit I'm no expert at the subject and it was one of the subjects I spent last time revising for. Make of that what you will.

I think it's definately the kids get smarting rather than the exams getting easier. It's becoming more and more clear that most children are now smarter than their adults in terms of outright knowledge at least.

[American]

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe.

Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

I feel sorry for her, having such an asshole as an uncle.

[broadsword]

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe.

Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

Bloody hell, this was a bit uncalled for.

I'm sure your niece is lovely, and I hope she fulfills her ambitions.

[Billy Castell]

I did better at A-level and at my degree than at GCSEs. Just thought I'd share that. Has anyone achieved this strange sequence of events?

[3rdpillar]

A point I would like to raise. New subjects: Expample IT/ICT/Computing etc.

I have spent 25 years in computing from the earliest days of spreadsheets / personal computing, networking, integrated systems and now information management I am qualified to judge the level of my sons competance in IT. And it is nowhere near as broad as mine BUT he knows several niche areas very well ( SQL, C++, web, MIcrosoft OS etc ).

For the last 2 years he has been taking and RETAKING exam after exam in an attempt to raise his grade which came back E, D E C, B C etc... ( his project was A ). The school asked for and received his exam papers on a number of occasions, each time his answers were nothing but correct HOWEVER the marking scheme did not allow to give him the marks. His answers were very detailed and correct in the real world. BUT they were the simplistic answers required to gain marks.

Dispite his dissapointment in IT, His grades in German and Maths got him to Leeds to study Modern Chinese on a 4 year single honours course.

He thought taking IT would be a banker for a A... nope!, Just as well he excelled in the other exams...

[Majiball]

I found this quite an interesting read, especially the part at the end:

Made to measure??

But this one is the best

From those who teach

[colin]

Thanks American, for your input to the debate. My neice's uncle is an fact "an asshole." The fact that he moved to The States some years ago possible (although not necessarily) has something to do with it.

Bryan, I was just a bit cheesed off with the annual groans of "exams must be getting easier" which denigrates my neice's (and other) examinees' hard work. Apologies for seemingly going OTT.

Rather similar to the exam results is the Men's 100m world record has been improving for years:

Time- athlete - year

9.95 Jim Hines 1968

9.93 Calvin Smith 1983

9.83 Ben Johnson 1987

9.79Ben Johnson 1988

9.92 Carl Lewis 1988

9.90 Leroy Burrell 1991

9.86 Carl Lewis 1991

9.85 Leroy Burrell 1994

9.84 Donovan Bailey 1996

9.79 Maurice Greene 1999

9.78 Tim Montgomery 2002

9.77 Asafa Powell 2005

9.74 Asafa Powell 2007

9.72 Usain Bolt 2008

9.69 Usain Bolt (again) 2008

By the same logic this proves that the 100m sprint is getting easier.

Or, and this has a whiff of big conspiracy about it, the 100m track is getting shorter

Think on.

[S15]

Not really Colin.

How could a government who have always had Education at the forefront of their manefesto possibly make it seem like they are acheieving one of their very main goals? By making the marking structure more generous, and point more towards looking to give marks as opposed to finding marks.

You may or may not have been in a high school classroom recently. However, 14-16 are not working harder now than they used to, believe me.

The fact marks raise every year raises nothing but eyebrows, and knowing certain people who would know, I can tell you pretty much for fact that the past 3-5 years has seen serious changes in the marking structures for GCSE and A level exams.

This in no way compares to a sport in which science and modern training helps whisk mili-seconds off record times.

[Tris]

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe.

Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

Colin - potential doctors or surgeons should have straight As from day 1, even in these days of mickey mouse tests (they're hardly exams). I hope your neice has a lovely and happy life, but maybe nursing is more her thing??

PS - who is "of lot"? Why would he/she have a problem?

[jim mk2]

Colin - potential doctors or surgeons should have straight As from day 1, even in these days of mickey mouse tests (they're hardly exams). I hope your neice has a lovely and happy life, but maybe nursing is more her thing??

And writing b*****cks is more your thing.

The girl has shown with 8 grades of A or better that she is capable of going on to do well at AS and A level. Boy down the road from me did not fare particularly well with his GCSEs, got his head down in the sixth form and is now at Trinity College Cambridge studying medicine.

Hard work and having a dream goes a long way.

[thenodrog]

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe.

Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

She's done well Colin and you have every right to be proud..... but so have zillions of others which dilutes her achievement somewhat. I guess in half a dozen years we'll be knee deep in good AND second and third rate doctors. I wonder how we'll be able to differentiate in our old age?

BUT

When I was at school (and btw it was a Grammar school and therefore the kids by definition were comprised of the top 40% of all children in terms of intelligence... as defined by the 11 plus.) only 3 kids out of approx 100 got 9 straight Grade 1's (GCE Ordinary Levels were graded 1-9 in those days) with just 1 pupil getting 10 (she'd had to give up PE and Games lessons to study German for that btw).

Kinda puts todays orgy of top grades from comprehensive schools especially into stark contrast doesn't it?