[Archived] Fans Forum meeting, plus new website

[Al]

Spot on.

I must say having managed to get rid cigarettes out of Pubs I find it intensely annoying when someone starts using an e-cig.

At the end of the day e-cigs are only the latest money making wheeze for the manufacturers and distributors. If you're going to give up, give up altogether!

Not only have you managed to get rid of cigarettes in pubs but you have got rid of the pubs too. Now you want to stop people from having a harmless (nobody has shown otherwise) pleasure because you don't like it.

[only2garners]

We have discussed e-cigarettes off and on for the last couple of years at the Fans Forum. Whilst it might be true that there was only one formal objection, there have certainly been plenty of informal ones as well. in addition it has greatly complicated the job stewards have trying to ensure that people are not smoking ordinary cigarettes. We have also had lots of complaints about smoking in the toilets ever since I've been on the Forum.

As Ben says, the club have been looking at the possibility of providing half time smoking areas outside the stands as some other clubs have introduced - Derby is one that I'm aware of. These seem to be running against cost issues in providing suitable barriers which would keep out non-ticket holders but also be easily and quickly removable in emergency. Given the club's finances it doesn't look likely that these will happen in the near future.

[PLJPB]

We have discussed e-cigarettes off and on for the last couple of years at the Fans Forum. Whilst it might be true that there was only one formal objection, there have certainly been plenty of informal ones as well. in addition it has greatly complicated the job stewards have trying to ensure that people are not smoking ordinary cigarettes. We have also had lots of complaints about smoking in the toilets ever since I've been on the Forum.

As Ben says, the club have been looking at the possibility of providing half time smoking areas outside the stands as some other clubs have introduced - Derby is one that I'm aware of. These seem to be running against cost issues in providing suitable barriers which would keep out non-ticket holders but also be easily and quickly removable in emergency. Given the club's finances it doesn't look likely that these will happen in the near future.

Thanks for the answer.

It just seemed to me that the easy option has been taken. While I take on board that there may have been plenty of informal objections, I'm also sure that there will be plenty of people unhappy with this decision.

Regarding the outside smoking area, would it not be possible to simply have a couple of the turnstiles where you could exit using your season ticket card or paper ticket and then re-enter after having a smoke in the same way as clocking in and out at work? I just think that the powers that be could find a solution if they really wanted to.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not only have you managed to get rid of cigarettes in pubs but you have got rid of the pubs too. Now you want to stop people from having a harmless (nobody has shown otherwise) pleasure because you don't like it.

Way off topic now but two points:

I didn't get rid of smoking in Pubs. I was fairly neutral on the issue until it actually came in but once it did I personally found the situation much better. I don't see the point in taking two steps backwards and allowing e-cigs, having gone to the trouble of banning cigarettes etc.

There are numerous issues which have contributed to the decline in Pubs of which the smoking ban is only one. Many Pubs spent thousands on elaborate smoking shelters and still shut down.

[Al]

Way off topic now but two points:

I didn't get rid of smoking in Pubs. I was fairly neutral on the issue until it actually came in but once it did I personally found the situation much better. I don't see the point in taking two steps backwards and allowing e-cigs, having gone to the trouble of banning cigarettes etc.

There are numerous issues which have contributed to the decline in Pubs of which the smoking ban is only one. Many Pubs spent thousands on elaborate smoking shelters and still shut down.

Selfish attitude.

[RevidgeBlue]

Selfish attitude.

Eh? But inflicting passive smoking or vaping on others isn't?

Daft comment.

[Gav]

Selfish attitude.

Don't smoke/vapour for 90 minutes, can't be that hard can it?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Don't smoke/vapour for 90 minutes, can't be that hard can it?

It can be watching our lot!!!

[Gav]

It can be watching our lot!!!

Good point

[old darwen blue]

It's only water vapour that is produced like steam. It dosent stick to others clothes or affect them in any way.

[Al]

Eh? But inflicting passive smoking or vaping on others isn't?

Daft comment.

Vaping isn't. It only irritates because you can't stop somebody's enjoyment.

I think I already said I don't smoke or vap but just think that people who want to stop vaping are just spiteful. Does no harm to anybody.

Stupid spiteful comment.

[Al]

Don't smoke/vapour for 90 minutes, can't be that hard can it?

How would you feel if I refused to let you drink at football matches and breathe your beery fumes all over me for 90 mins. Vaping is no worse than that.

[Amo]

If there's nothing harmful with the e-cigs, and it's just the smell, then I don't see the point in prohibiting them. By that logic, people with bad body odour should also be banned from the stadium.

[Gav]

How would you feel if I refused to let you drink at football matches and breathe your beery fumes all over me for 90 mins. Vaping is no worse than that.

I thought we'd put this to bed yesterday Al, but it seems you're spoiling for a fight. Beer fumes never killed anyone, smoking fumes have killed thousands if not millions.

The vaping fumes have not been proven to be harmful or safe as yet, so from my perspective I'd rather not have someone blowing nicotine based vapour in my general direction.

These contraptions are supposed to be a quit aid aren’t they? Most people I know have just replaced cigarettes with these things, and then get back on the cigs when the beers flowing.

[stuwilky]

Purely out of interest I dont understand why the club talk of increased stewarding costs and collapsable barriers for smoking areas. What some other clubs have done is have a permanently fenced area with an emergency exit double door in - using the steward that is currently allocated to the emerency exit double doors. There is a perfect spot in the BBE / JW corner for the BBE for example.

There is a cost to put it in, but very little by way of EXTRA recurring running costs.

Makes no difference to me - other than there might be a bit more room on the concourse for me and my pint!

[RevidgeBlue]

Vaping isn't. It only irritates because you can't stop somebody's enjoyment.I think I already said I don't smoke or vap but just think that people who want to stop vaping are just spiteful. Does no harm to anybody.Stupid spiteful comment.

Don't know if I've upset you for some reason but you're not replying in similar confrontational manner to other people making the same points as me on this thread. Pm me if you wish.

Vaping isn't. It only irritates because you can't stop somebody's enjoyment.I think I already said I don't smoke or vap but just think that people who want to stop vaping are just spiteful. Does no harm to anybody.Stupid spiteful comment.

Don't know if I've upset you for some reason but you're not replying in similar confrontational manner to other people making the same points as me on this thread. Pm me if you wish.

How would you feel if I refused to let you drink at football matches and breathe your beery fumes all over me for 90 mins. Vaping is no worse than that.

The answer to that is if I, Gav or anyone else couldn't get through 105 minutes without a drink we'd have a very serious problem.

It's nice to have the option of a pint at half time but it wouldn't bother me if you couldn't. A pint of watery gnat's pee in a plastic skiff in a concrete wind tunnel isn't really the highlight of my afternoon.

[Al]

I thought we'd put this to bed yesterday Al, but it seems you're spoiling for a fight. Beer fumes never killed anyone, smoking fumes have killed thousands if not millions.

The vaping fumes have not been proven to be harmful or safe as yet, so from my perspective I'd rather not have someone blowing nicotine based vapour in my general direction.

These contraptions are supposed to be a quit aid aren’t they? Most people I know have just replaced cigarettes with these things, and then get back on the cigs when the beers flowing.

Determined to twist it aren't you? Nobody is talking about cigarettes we are talking about vaping which never killed anybody whilst beer?

You really have to move the goalposts don't you.

[roverzee]

Determined to twist it aren't you? Nobody is talking about cigarettes we are talking about vaping which never killed anybody whilst beer?

You really have to move the goalposts don't you.

Why do you think they are banned on planes? On trains? In Wetherspoons pubs?

Why have French medical experts recommended that they are banned in all public places, the same way as cigarettes are?

Surely the answer is that not enough is YET known about the vapour they emit. Let's face it it's only within the last 20 years that the harm that normal fags cause has been acted upon, with first the advertising restrictions and now the bans and having to be kept in closed cupboards rather than on visible display.

By the way don't bother replying if you can't do so in a civilised manner. You're exactly the same as Thenodrog and jimmk2, downright rude and ignorant of the etiquette of how to have a discussion on an internet forum.

[Al]

Your last paragraph is hardly sweetness and light is it?

You will notice that my whole argument was on behalf of others as I neither smoke nor Vap myself, Since few others appreciate that I have finished campaigning on their behalf

[yoda]

Why do you think they are banned on planes? On trains? In Wetherspoons pubs?

Why have French medical experts recommended that they are banned in all public places, the same way as cigarettes are?

Surely the answer is that not enough is YET known about the vapour they emit. Let's face it it's only within the last 20 years that the harm that normal fags cause has been acted upon, with first the advertising restrictions and now the bans and having to be kept in closed cupboards rather than on visible display.

By the way don't bother replying if you can't do so in a civilised manner. You're exactly the same as Thenodrog and jimmk2, downright rude and ignorant of the etiquette of how to have a discussion on an internet forum.

They are not banned on Ryanair, they actively encourage it, the French are @#/? they are not getting the high level of tax from them as normal ciggies, the UK are considering classing them as food!

[Stuart]

Your last paragraph is hardly sweetness and light is it?

You will notice that my whole argument was on behalf of others as I neither smoke nor Vap myself, Since few others appreciate that I have finished campaigning on their behalf

Arguing on behalf of others often comes back to bite you on the bum.

And gets you no thanks.

In my experience!

[old darwen blue]

Your last paragraph is hardly sweetness and light is it?

You will notice that my whole argument was on behalf of others as I neither smoke nor Vap myself, Since few others appreciate that I have finished campaigning on their behalf

No, I for one appreciated it pal. The thing with e cigs are that they are a great unknown and people are frightened of the unknown.

My doctor was trying for years to make me give up smoking. When I did I told him it was using e cigs and asked him if they are dangerous. His reply was that even if they turned out to be a bit bad for you then they were better than cigarettes which are very bad for you.

Sugar is proven to be a killer apparently, oh and eating red meat more than one day a week and I haven't even got to jogging along a road next to emission spewing traffic. Oh well

Thanks Al anyway which was my original reason for posting, I just digressed a little.

[Ben-2000]

Please see below for the minutes of the recent FF meeting (there is an issue getting them onto the website which I hope to be resolved soon, therefore apologies for the format)...

Minutes of the Blackburn Rovers Fans’ Forum
Ewood Park, Tuesday 15th April 2014 – 7.15pm

Present – Fans’ Forum Present from BRFC

Ste Birtwell Derek Shaw
Neil Duckworth Greg Coar
John Wareing Alan Myers
Ben Sumner
Jim Holden...
Alan Birkbeck
Annette Birkbeck
Rob Parker
Terry Crawford
Gordon Ormerod
Jennifer Lewis
Ray Williamson
Tris Stock

Apologies for absence

Simon Barnes
Mark Hitchen

1. Andy Neil

Since the last meeting Andy Neil had decided to resign from the Forum. SB put on record his thanks to Andy for his service as a member of the Forum for the last 6 years and his more recent service as Chair of the Forum.

2. Matters arising from the Minutes 10th February 2014

a) Fan Zone
GC stated that it had now been decided that the launch would be at the start of next season

b Free Birthday tickets
In response to complaints that some members had not received the offer of a free match ticket in the month of their birthday, GC agreed to check and report back.

c Burnley Game
GO reported issues with fans at the front of the Jack Walker Lower Stand standing throughout the Burney game, forcing all those behind them to stand as well.

3. Alan Myers – Director of Communications

AM introduced himself to the Forum as the newly appointed Director of Communications. He wanted to record his thanks to fans for their welcome to him to the club. He was keen to engage in an open process and emphasised that no question was off limits.

GO asked what his remit was at the club. AM replied that he would initially be looking to engage with the fans and develop communications both internally and externally at the club.

He was very impressed with how loyal the fans had been given what had happened at the club over the last few years, and in particular with away support. He recognised however, that many fans have stopped attending games and that that was an area he and the club needed to work on, along with improving the match day atmosphere. He has been talking to Blackburn with Darwen Council about reintegrating the club within the town. He was in contact with the owners on a regular basis and he genuinely believes that the club’s owners want the best for the club.

4. Financial Fair Play

DS stated that Financial Fair Play rules were in place but could still be amended. There had been a meeting in London on 10th April and he expected that the final rules would be voted on before the end of May. He suspected that there would be changes to the current rules but that there was no majority for significant change.


5. Season Tickets 2014/15

GC stated that there was no final agreement on pricing for 2014/15 as it was not yet clear in which division the team would be playing. JW asked about the truth in recent rumours that some areas of the ground may be closed for next season. There was discussion about the practicality of any closures and recognition of the probable resistance of existing season ticket holders in affected areas. GC said that ideas for change would always be considered and in fact had been every year in close seasons. The primary motivation for any changes would be to consolidate the support to improve atmosphere in the ground and not to save money.

JL asked whether it would be possible to stage the payments for parking to make it more affordable for fans. GC replied that he would make enquiries and report back.

6. Disabled Supporters’ Group

JL asked for clarification of the situation with the Disabled Supporters’ Club. DS replied that the committee of the club had stood down at a recent meeting. It was not true that the club had disbanded the club. It was planned to re-launch the club during the Summer and the club wanted to see a thriving Disabled Supporters Club in the future.


7. Queen’s Visit to Blackburn

In response to a question DS confirmed that the Queen would be attending Blackburn Cathedral on 17th April for the Maundy service and that there would be a Civic Reception at Ewood Park afterwards. He was expecting the club’s owners to attend the service and the Reception.

8. BRFC Action Group

AM was concerned about the current split in fans groups, but emphasised that he would always be willing to speak to any group of supporters. The club would welcome representation from the Action Group on the Fans Forum. JW replied that the Action Group had been invited to send representatives to sit on the Forum before and they had declined. He agreed that a further invite would be issued.

9. 2014/15 Pre-Season

AlanB asked whether there was any clarity on plans for the 2014/15 pre-season. DS replied that a couple of smaller games had been agreed but the main plan depended on which league the club would be playing in next season. He hoped that there would be a home friendly before the start of the season. An overseas training camp is being considered.

10. Fans Forum Vacancies

Following the resignation of three members over the last few months it was agreed that the Forum needed to advertise for new members. JW asked whether it would be possible to have an advert in a future match programme and on the big screen. It was agreed that this would be done at the Wigan game.

11. Any Other Business

a) Wigan Tickets
BS asked why there was a delay in issuing ticket prices for the home game with Wigan. GC replied that there was a debate about whether to have a ticket promotion to maximise the crowd size and that this depended on whether there would still be something to play for. A decision would therefore be made after the Easter games.

b ) Ewood Park Roadworks
RW highlighted that roadworks were due to start at Ewood outside the ground in May and would be there for next season, which could cause traffic problems at future games until completion.

c) Day Out
AlanB and AnnetteB wanted to record their thanks for the day out that AM and the club had set up for them at the home game with Ipswich.

12. Date of Next Meetings

Pre -meet Main meeting
Monday 2/6/14 Monday 9/6/14
Monday 4/8/14 Monday 11/8/14
Monday 6/10/14 Monday 13/10/14
Monday 1/12/14 Monday 8/12/14

Pre-meets are held at Ewood one week before the main meetings. The pre-meet is open to all interested fans to attend, providing they request to do so in advance by contacting John Wareing by email or phone as below.

Members should contact John Wareing at roversfansforum@hotmail.com or 07984 085474 give their apologies if they cannot attend a meeting.

Fans can also contact John regarding the Forum using the contact details above.

[Stuart]

Thanks Ben. Can I just say that I find the posting of the minutes on the Facebook page very useful and convenient.

Please pass on thanks to whomever is responsible.

[Ben-2000]

There is also a Twitter page

@roversfansforum

Thanks.