[Archived] Theo Walcott

[philipl]

No then.

How you can have such a strong opinion when you have literally no clue what kind of player we are talking about is beyond me.

377451[/snapback]

I enjoy sparring with you shillito as you fall for every trap I leave for you.

I didn't say I hadn't seen him play did I?

Presumably you think Arsenal Academy, Reserves or subs bench is an appropriate place from which to pick the England World Cup squad?

I guess he'll get a bit of a run for the Arse first team but he'll be in and out like Fabregas has been. Don't forget there's the Arsenal signings in Egypt at the moment.

[S15]

How many times have you seen walcott play?

in live games I mean (including TV)...but not just highlight packages.

377454[/snapback]

Only twice in full live games, and of course I've seen all the highlights.

Again, as I am sick of saying, I'm not starting some kind of campaign, just raising a possibility!

Philip clearly has never seen Walcott play in any capacity and I have no idea if you have but your arguments are based purely around age, making them very weak in the argument I am presenting. (See my above post)

[S15]

I enjoy sparring with you shillito as you fall for every trap I leave for you.

I didn't say I hadn't seen him play did I?

Presumably you think Arsenal Academy, Reserves or subs bench is an appropriate place from which to pick the England World Cup squad?

I guess he'll get a bit of a run for the Arse first team but he'll be in and out like Fabregas has been. Don't forget there's the Arsenal signings in Egypt at the moment.

377458[/snapback]

Yawn.

You really have no idea Manuel.

If Wenger is planning on letting him play in the acedemy/reserves, why was he so hellbent on not allowing Southampton to loan him back?

Like I said, Rooney, age 17, more sub appearences than starts, wins first England cap. Been in every squad ever since.

Why? Beacause he was good enough.

I eagerly await your next ''trap.'' Or is that armchair opinion?

[Eddie]

Two points...

Secondly, he will be 17 by the summer, the same age Rooney was when he deputised for England, and if he plays half a season, will have the same amount of experience. So if Rooney was good enough, why not Walcott? I am not even semi suggesting Walcott should play anywhere near a full game, but I feel in a squad of 23 players, there is room for one wildcard with obvious quality, who can come on for ten minutes and possibly do one thing which can inspire a last minute goal. Though Englands first eleven is littered with match winning quality, on the bench I see very few, if any options that give England this unpredictability and quality.

377456[/snapback]

Rooney didn't have much experience, but he played in a friendly, not a major tournament, it isn't the same thing. Walcott may well emerge at just the wrong time, but could be great for the post-world cup squad. 23 players isn't that big of a squad, a couple of injuries and you really don't want the wild card to be playing an important role in a world cup quaterfinal.

[philipl]

Only twice in full live games, and of course I've seen all the highlights.

Again, as I am sick of saying, I'm not starting some kind of campaign, just raising a possibility!

Philip clearly has never seen Walcott play in any capacity and I have no idea if you have but your arguments are based purely around age, making them very weak in the argument I am presenting. (See my above post)

377459[/snapback]

You see you twit, I've seen him as often as you have.

And whilst he looks very exciting, I want to see him being just as outstanding in an Arsenal v Chelsea game before he could remotely be considered for this World Cup.

If he scores a hattrick on his First Division debut like a teenage Shearer did, then we've got to take him.

But as you have back tracked gracefully, I won't belabour my point.

[Duff's Minder]

To be fair, the lad's only got to be better than Peter Crouch or Jermaine Defoe to get in the squad and that isn't asking too much. He is also exactly the kind of player with pace and movement that Sven likes, which is why Vassell got so many England caps.

I think there's an outside chance he could go to Germany.

[ihateburnley]

And what praytell has he achieved?

376806[/snapback]

Well let's see....

About four years ago, Wayne Rooney was a lad on a youth contract earning let's say £300 a week.

He's now playing every game for the biggest club in the world, he is arguably one of the best players in the England squad and I think I might be right in saying he's ony just turned 20.

Wayne Rooney has achieved everything that a footballer can achieve at his age. Now don't confuse this with what he has 'won'. Obviously Rooney has won very little - though probably through no fault of his own.

Alan Shearer has 'only' won a single Championship medal and I suppose for a legendary striker (possibly regarded as one of the best strikers of all time) he has achieved very little? Achievements come in all shapes and sizes. Some could say Dion Dublin made an astounding achievement coming back to football from a broken neck, and possibly even the great Matt Jansen has achieved a great deal by still playing Premiership football after a bad motorbike accident?

Players often are judged solely on their medals. Alan Shearer for me is much more of a legend than Andy Cole - but one of their trophy cabinets in empty and the other's is rammed.

[neekoy]

Well let's see....

About four years ago, Wayne Rooney was a lad on a youth contract earning let's say £300 a week.

He's now playing every game for the biggest club in the world, he is arguably one of the best players in the England squad and I think I might be right in saying he's ony just turned 20.

Wayne Rooney has achieved everything that a footballer can achieve at his age. Now don't confuse this with what he has 'won'. Obviously Rooney has won very little - though probably through no fault of his own.

Alan Shearer has 'only' won a single Championship medal and I suppose for a legendary striker (possibly regarded as one of the best strikers of all time) he has achieved very little? Achievements come in all shapes and sizes. Some could say Dion Dublin made an astounding achievement coming back to football from a broken neck, and possibly even the great Matt Jansen has achieved a great deal by still playing Premiership football after a bad motorbike accident?

Players often are judged solely on their medals. Alan Shearer for me is much more of a legend than Andy Cole - but one of their trophy cabinets in empty and the other's is rammed.

377646[/snapback]

Well it's a wonderful story IHB, good on the lad, but ultimately records will tell the story of his career.

All I am saying is that at this point in time, the Rooney records don't speak anything above being a good player in a big team.

Agreed achievements come in many sizes and forms, but other then the romantic fairytale of a young man realising his dreams, on the books he hasn't achieved squat.

If you add Shearers one trophy with the fact he is the Premierships highest ever goal scorer AND that the only player looking like catching his record is Owen on about 100 goals less AND he reached this record playing for minor clubs like Southampton, (with all due respect) Rovers and Newcastle and he looks a little more appealing.

[joey_big_nose]

Agreed achievements come in many sizes and forms, but other then the romantic fairytale of a young man realising his dreams, on the books he hasn't achieved squat.

If you add Shearers one trophy with the fact he is the Premierships highest ever goal scorer AND that the only player looking like catching his record is Owen on about 100 goals less AND he reached this record playing for minor clubs like Southampton, (with all due respect) Rovers and Newcastle and he looks a little more appealing.

377705[/snapback]

Well if you are splitting hairs - essentially saying that any player who has not been the finest among their generation are not 'appealing' - then Australia are a side entirely filled with players who are not that attractive at all. Positively ugly even.

What in God's name is your point? Rooney is one of the finest players in the world who would walk in to any team with the possible exception of Brazil.

What difference does it make? He is brilliant, the best available to England, so should be in the team. If Walcott is smilarly brilliant he will be in the squad come May.

THe issue is not whether he wins trophies or is 'appealing'. The issue is whether he is one of the five best forwards this country has to offer.

What planet are you operating on?

[neekoy]

Joey, I am completely lost on the how the Wooney discussion came about, I believe the point was made by someone that Walcoot could achieve as much as Rooney if they chose him for the England team, to my response of Rooney really hasn't achieved that much, which started the whole Wooney discussion.

There have been some who have already picked Walcoot in the World Cup squad, he is in the best 5 forwards currently ready for picking? I feel pity for the England talent pool if that is the case.

The appealing comment looks to have been misinterpreted.

It was purely meant as, I would rather Shearer in my team then Wooney, and history (so far) backs me up.

And it looks as though I am on the same planet as you, Jupiter right?

Edited January 25, 2006 by neekoy

[ihateburnley]

Joey, I am completely lost on the how the Wooney discussion came about, I believe the point was made by someone that Walcoot could achieve as much as Rooney if they chose him for the England team, to my response of Rooney really hasn't achieved that much, which started the whole Wooney discussion.

There have been some who have already picked Walcoot in the World Cup squad, he is in the best 5 forwards currently ready for picking?  I feel pity for the England talent pool if that is the case.

The appealing comment looks to have been misinterpreted. 

It was purely meant as, I would rather Shearer in my team then Wooney, and history (so far) backs me up.

And it looks as though I am on the same planet as you, Jupiter right?

377740[/snapback]

I certainly havent stated that Walcott should walk into the England squad. I'm just saying if the lad is good enough - which he promises to be - then putting him in the England squad for a couple of friendlies will certainly do him no harm. Just look at Rooney!!!!!!!!

Why feel pity if that is the case though? A 16 year old wonderkid(s) is definitely NOTHING to be ashamed of. No doubt you were cursing our luck when we put an 18 year old Duff in for the 'legendary' Jason Wilcox.

[Eddie]

Neekoy, there is a point where you have to look beyond history. Rooney hasn't achieved that much at international level, but then again, how much could he have done by now? He's only played in one tournament, in which he was probably the star of the show and was unfortunate to get injured. In qualification he hasn't done that much, but then again England didn't need to do that much in order to qualify. He's an electrifying talent and in my opinion has all the makings of the best player in the world (yes I think he'll be better than people like Ronaldinho because I think Rooney is more effective, puts in more effort and overall is more beneficial to the team without the 1000 step overs and balancing a ball on his shoulder for a minute).

There is no way I'd pick a current Shearer over Rooney, there's no comparison. Would you pick the current Hurst over Rooney? He has achieved far more afterall. Young players by definition haven't achieved as much as their older counterparts, it isn't there fault that they are young. Now the point I made for why Walcott shouldn't go isn't based on the fact that he hasn't achieved anything, but more the fact that he hasn't even had much of a chance to show us that raw talent that is a must, I'm sure he has it, but you need more than a few games to show everyone what you can really do.

[neekoy]

Fair enough Eddie, I juts thought it would have been a much more sensible comparison if Walcoot was compared to someone who was picked for England at a young age and has gone on to accomplish something in his career.

Even someone like Owen would have been far more suitable.

[S15]

I enjoy sparring with you shillito as you fall for every trap I leave for you.

I didn't say I hadn't seen him play did I?

Presumably you think Arsenal Academy, Reserves or subs bench is an appropriate place from which to pick the England World Cup squad?

I guess he'll get a bit of a run for the Arse first team but he'll be in and out like Fabregas has been. Don't forget there's the Arsenal signings in Egypt at the moment.

377458[/snapback]

Thought this thread would be interesting to bring back and have another read over eh Philip!!

As suprised as I am, seems my raised possibility has come off after all!!

[ultrablue]

The various emotoions I'm going through upon hearing how that Swede has, with one final stroke of insanity, stolen our national team

[Bobby G]

I think it may be a stroke of genius.

Lets put it this way, Bent or Defoe werent going to win you the WC and would have played second fiddle to Crouch and Owen for sure. So instead, Sven calls up an X-FACTOR someone no one knows anything about, someone potentially great in the future as a joker in his pack.

I think its a risk, but a calculated one...

Lets see if it pays off.

[ultrablue]

I think it may be a stroke of genius.

Lets put it this way, Bent or Defoe werent going to win you the WC and would have played second fiddle to Crouch and Owen for sure. So instead, Sven calls up an X-FACTOR someone no one knows anything about, someone potentially great in the future as a joker in his pack.

I think its a risk, but a calculated one...

Lets see if it pays off.

406051[/snapback]

David James has played up front more times in the Premiership!! Eriksson knows F all about Walcott! 0 starts 0 goals 0 point!

[ihtd]

Ericksson has even admitted that he has never seen Walcott play in the flesh. IMO that is a dsigrace, if you are going to ignore the top scoring Englishman in D.Bent from both the 23 and the stand-by list and pick somebody in the 23 who you have never seen play and hasn't played first team football since January 14th against Plymouth, Sven should have at least watched one of his two reserve matches.

[Radagast]

Utter madness from Eriksson. What more can Darren Bent do (other than sign for a more glitzy club)?

After posting this I fully expect to be eating humle pie in a few weeks time.

[ykims_com]

Stunned.

I assume Wenger will be making the same gamble with Walcott in the Champions League final. In fact, he might even let him lace up Henry's boots.

[thenodrog]

Why should Ericsson give a toss? He's been fired rem?

As far as the squad he must be nuts not to take Bent before Andy Johnston. If Crouch gets hurt early doors or suffers a loss of form we have no 'back to goal' replacement should certain tactics require it. One proper target men and a load of midgets is farcical! Crikey everybody and their mother knows BRFC need a big feller up front and the England situation is just the same.

[philipl]

Thought this thread would be interesting to bring back and have another read over eh Philip!!     

As suprised as I am, seems my raised possibility has come off after all!!

406029[/snapback]

Well done Shillito- I bow to your superior foresight.

Just out of interest, unlike SGE, have you ever seen Walcott playing in the flesh?

[rover6]

Bobby G has got this totally right on Walcott's inclusion and all you frothing at the mouth about the choice will be magnanimous in being wrong by the end of the World Cup.

Jermain Defoe is not a good substitute. FACT. Whether for Tottenham or England. SO seeing as he's not going to be starting, why take him when he's not going to do anything of the bench. SHould we take him because his record of Prem goals?

Of course, not Sven needs to WIN the cup not pick players who people believe 'deserve' to be in the squad.

Darren Bent is unlucky to not even be a stand-by but is he really going to offer that much different from Crouch, Owen and Rooney? NOPE.

Walcott is a dribbler and exceptionally fast. He will offer an extra dimension to England if called upon. Who of all people should know about the guy? HIS MANAGER. Wenger has said that Walcott is ready - why shouldn't we believe him? He has nothing to gain from Walcott being in the squad - he hardly WANTS the media hype to inundate his young star. If anything, he'd probably prefer it if Walcott stayed out of the limelight and developed outside the intense glare of the media.

Who cares if he doesn't have any Premiership games under his belt? We have heard a lot about Walcott's mental strength, so who's to say he can't cope with the pressure?

Finally, there's quite a bit of nonsense bandied around that we'll only have two fit strikers if Owen and Rooney don't make it. Haven't Gerrard and Joe Cole ever played as second strikers for their Premiership clubs?

[ultrablue]

Bobby G has got this totally right on Walcott's inclusion and all you frothing at the mouth about the choice will be magnanimous in being wrong by the end of the World Cup.

Jermain Defoe is not a good substitute. FACT. Whether for Tottenham or England. SO seeing as he's not going to be starting, why take him when he's not going to do anything of the bench. SHould we take him because his record of Prem goals?

Of course, not Sven needs to WIN the cup not pick players who people believe 'deserve' to be in the squad.

Darren Bent is unlucky to not even be a stand-by but is he really going to offer that much different from Crouch, Owen and Rooney? NOPE.

Walcott is a dribbler and exceptionally fast. He will offer an extra dimension to England if called upon. Who of all people should know about the guy? HIS MANAGER. Wenger has said that Walcott is ready - why shouldn't we believe him? He has nothing to gain from Walcott being in the squad - he hardly WANTS the media hype to inundate his young star. If anything, he'd probably prefer it if Walcott stayed out of the limelight and developed outside the intense glare of the media.

Who cares if he doesn't have any Premiership games under his belt? We have heard a lot about Walcott's mental strength, so who's to say he can't cope with the pressure?

Finally, there's quite a bit of nonsense bandied around that we'll only have two fit strikers if Owen and Rooney don't make it. Haven't Gerrard and Joe Cole ever played as second strikers for their Premiership clubs?

406090[/snapback]

I've never heard such utter drivel! You know the amount of rubbish spouted about young players by the media- sure we have heard about walcotts mental strength from his manager, from his mates at Southampton- they have a £12 million price tag to justify!!

There is one main way to pick your England squad and that is through watching players at the highest level and trying them in friendlies. To think that after all the time Sven has been watching games this season he picks a player he has never seen, has scored 5 goals in 23 starts at Championship level, it really can't be justified, not even by your attention seeking mind rover6!

[LeChuck]

As far as the squad he must be nuts not to take Bent before Andy Johnson.  If Crouch gets hurt early doors or suffers a loss of form we have no 'back to goal' replacement should certain tactics require it.  One proper target men and a load of midgets is farcical!  Crikey everybody and their mother knows BRFC need a big feller up front and the England situation is just the same.

406069[/snapback]

Why is he nuts for doing that? Johnson was more impressive in his season in the Premiership than Bent has been. As for the 'back to goal' thing...both Johnson and Bent played lone striking roles, so they're equal in that department.

I'm pretty much on the same lines of thinking as Bobby G on this, Defoe and Bent will never have done enough for us so we may as well take Walcott. My only reservation is that I would have liked to have seen Ashton taken as the 'risk'. Actually, take both and drop Jenas from the squad, we don't need that many central midfielders.