[Archived] Rooney V Torres

[Rovermatt]

Rooney. No question.

[neekoy]

Not rattled, just wish accusations were substantiated sometimes. Rooney is a gifted footballer and is branded 'overrated' and 'scum' with no rationale whatsoever.

Not going to the zoo this afternoon, nearest thing to down under.

Off to Burnley.

so its ok for aussies to do stupid things but not pommies??i find it strange.

i know i reread it dave ..no probs....just gets me goat when neekoy slagging us english off all the time

The rationale is because he is no role model for any kid out there. I wouldn't want my kid growing up wanting to be Wayne Rooney, football talents aside.

No Abs, it is not acceptable for any sporting 'superstar' to act up Australian, English or not

I am not slagging off the English Abs, I am commenting on Rooney. The original comparison was who was the better player, I said Torres to which I was slayed because of my 'colour spectacles' and not because I think that Torres is the better player and a player I would rather see in the blue and white halves.

I think there are perfectly acceptable role models AND better players then Rooney in the English team and I will name Gerrard for one.

Abs there is a different between slagging off the English and English sport. I have no problem with the English people and can for say that I would not want a beer with any nation more, you lot are a fun bunch and hold the same values as what we do in Australia do.

When it comes to English sport though, I am Australian mate 100%. I will argue black and blue when we are playing against each other in any sport that we are better but I would hope we could have a beer after the game and have a laugh.

Edited June 26, 2006 by neekoy

[pleasure]

Rooney for me. although he's looking rather 'podgy' (if he has many more injuries, he'll top maradona's weight).

torres has too many off days for me, (from what i've seen on sky) but it would be interesting to see if he can set the prem on fire and we'd then be able to compare them both more fairly.

[Presty On Tour]

Rooney for me. although he's looking rather 'podgy' (if he has many more injuries, he'll top maradona's weight).

torres has too many off days for me, (from what i've seen on sky) but it would be interesting to see if he can set the prem on fire and we'd then be able to compare them both more fairly.

i'll agree with that, the only way you could compare them is in the world cup and that really isn't to fair either as rooney has not played as many games and is recovering from injury.

two different kind of players imo too.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Rooney is not in the bloody top 5 players in the world. He is not even in the top 10 or 15.

Ronaldinho, Henry, Shevchenko, Gerrard, Riquelme, Deco, Ronaldo, Adriano, Puyol, Eto, Saviola, Crespo, Kaka, Ibrahimović, Ballack, Cannavaro, Nesta, Robben and the list goes on

Rooney is not even the best player in England, I would have Gerrard, Lampard, Terry and even Owen when in form ahead of him

What a load of rubbish a cuta and paste job if ever i saw it

Gerrard- Has stated that Rooney is Englands best player

Adriano- Not in the same class

Ronaldo- Not even going to commen on thta

Deco - Extremley good but if you asked Mourinho i bet he would have Rooney everytime

Crespo LOL

Ibrahimović- Do you watch football

Saviola- Thats why Barca dont want him

Need i go on talk about bitterness, and i do not see through english tinted specs as i am half Italien so i am not biase towards English players infact i for one think J.terry is the most overated player at the WC

[Rovermatt]

Eh? Terry's one of the best defenders in Europe without a shadow of a doubt.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Eh? Terry's one of the best defenders in Europe without a shadow of a doubt.

Have you seen his performances in the WC

[adopted scouser]

Have you seen his performances in the WC

Don't know what you and him got up to in the bogs :ph34r:

[Eddie]

Have you seen his performances in the WC

A few games don't turn you into a bad defender. Anyway, he was really only poor in the last one.

[neekoy]

What a load of rubbish a cuta and paste job if ever i saw it

Gerrard- Has stated that Rooney is Englands best player

Adriano- Not in the same class

Ronaldo- Not even going to commen on thta

Deco - Extremley good but if you asked Mourinho i bet he would have Rooney everytime

Crespo LOL

Ibrahimović- Do you watch football

Saviola- Thats why Barca dont want him

Need i go on talk about bitterness, and i do not see through english tinted specs as i am half Italien so i am not biase towards English players infact i for one think J.terry is the most overated player at the WC

Why is it bitterness? I named a couple of Englishmen as better then him yet I am somehow bitter?

Gerrard - I have never seen Rooney do what Gerrard has done, at all levels

Adriano - Your kidding right? At least on par with Rooney

Ronaldo - He hasn't done enough to prove it to you? Even when he is fat and unfit he still can turn a game with one touch of the ball and is still an integral part of the Brazilian team. Has won everything.

Deco - 2 champions league medals, uefa cup winner, portuguese league winner, two spanish league titles, final of the european championship and now quarter finalist and possibly beyond in the world cup. Get a grip.

Crespo - Copa Libertadores winner, argentina league champions, premiership champions, italian cup winner Champions League Finalist, UEFA Cup winner. He hasn't performed as well in the premier league, who cares. He is one of the world's best strikers.

Ibrahimovic - Is on par with Rooney

Saviola - Barcelona have stated he doesn't fit in with their style of play, doesn't mean anything. He has shown on all levels that he is a cut above.

I don't need to cut and paste anything, I have seen all of these players at various levels and they are better.

[joey_big_nose]

Don't be an idiot. Rooney is the best player attacking England has produced since Gascoigne. That much is obvious. The coaches of the players you have listed, with the one exception of Adriano possibly, would swap them for Rooney.

I'm not one of those who think England have an awesome team, but get over yourself and recognise the boy is brilliant. He might not win as many medals as those blessed to be in an Argentinian or Brazillian side but he is a fantastic player.

The point is not who won the most medals but who most coaches would pick to put in their team. Who in their right mind would select Ronaldo, Crespo or Ibrahimovic ahead of Rooney? To play with him perhaps but if it came down to an either/or situtaion then the lad would get it.

[neekoy]

I didn't say he wasn't brilliant, I didn't say he wasn't a fantastic player. He is very classy and ONE of the best England has produced but not the best and not the best in this current team.

If I was to pick my best team in the world I wouldn't have Rooney because the team would be selected as a unit and not on one players ability.

There are better creative players, there are better goal scorers, there are better defensive players. They are the guys that would find their way into the team.

Rooney is class, without a shadow of a doubt but not as good as others.

Edit: And who would I rather be in MY team, Torres

Edited June 27, 2006 by neekoy

[joey_big_nose]

Okay I accept that Torres, Messi, Ronaldinho,Kaka and a couple of others are players you could interchange with Rooney as they are all incredible. My point was all those players you listed, particularly Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo, are clearly not on the same plane as the boy or indeed Messi etc.

[Ronin]

Eh? Terry's one of the best defenders in Europe without a shadow of a doubt.

I'd go along with that, but his World Cup performances definitely seem to differ from his Chelsea perfomances, as do most of the other players.

[Eddie]

I didn't say he wasn't brilliant, I didn't say he wasn't a fantastic player. He is very classy and ONE of the best England has produced but not the best and not the best in this current team.

If I was to pick my best team in the world I wouldn't have Rooney because the team would be selected as a unit and not on one players ability.

There are better creative players, there are better goal scorers, there are better defensive players. They are the guys that would find their way into the team.

Rooney is class, without a shadow of a doubt but not as good as others.

Edit: And who would I rather be in MY team, Torres

See that doesn't add up for me, the one thing that cannot be questioned about Rooney is that he is a team player. He works so hard for the team, brings people into play, scores and sets up goals, his all round contribution is fantastic. In a couple of years he will be the best player in the world. He has the skill, the work ethic and the physical attributes. There is no way Torres is the better player. As for the better goal scorer, their records at club and international level are virtually the same, but Rooney is the all round better player. Torres for me is not in the same class as Rooney, though he is a very good player.

[Howard Gayle RulesOK]

I will argue black and blue when we are playing against each other in any sport that we are better but I would hope we could have a beer after the game and have a laugh.

Mate, I’m not beating on Australians here so don’t get in a tizz but …

…don’t you have the capacity to admit you mightn’t be the best every single time? This idea that ‘Aussie is the best and I’ll never admit anything else’ is a myopia which baffles me.

And once again because I know that you are a sensitive bunch deep down, I think Australians are superb company.. aw heck, I’ll even admit that some of my mates are Australian. It’s just this weird belligerence I don’t get.

And for the record, the answer is Rooney.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

I didn't say he wasn't brilliant, I didn't say he wasn't a fantastic player. He is very classy and ONE of the best England has produced but not the best and not the best in this current team.

If I was to pick my best team in the world I wouldn't have Rooney because the team would be selected as a unit and not on one players ability.

There are better creative players, there are better goal scorers, there are better defensive players. They are the guys that would find their way into the team.

Rooney is class, without a shadow of a doubt but not as good as others.

Edit: And who would I rather be in MY team, Torres

You are seriousley deluded if you think Crespo,Ibrhramhovic,Adriano et el are superior players to Rooney, you ask all of the great European clubs there top 5 targets and im sure the vast majority will hav rooney in it

[philipl]

Was rather disappointed with Torres tonight.

As for the Rooney v Torres debate, they are different. I think Rooney's talent is rather more a one-off than Torres so in most circumstances I'd take him rather than the lighter weight Torres.

Will be interesting to see if Torres is any good in the Prem whereas Rooney is the sort of player who would bulldoze his way through any league.

[Lathund]

Oh dear, he's comprehensively better than those in bold already, and a case could be made for many of the others.

How could you say Rooney is comprehensively better than for example Cannavaro and Nesta? At dribbling, shooting etc. then ofcourse he is, because he's a FORWARD, they are DEFENDERS. Nesta and Cannavaro form the world's best central defensive partnership for Italy, and are also individually in the top 5 (Even an Italy-hater would have to include them in their top 10) defenders in the world. What makes a world class forward "comprehensively better" than a world class defender? You can't compare them like that, you can only compare them to players who play a similar role. As for importance to the team; Italy might very well have lost to Australia without Cannavaro, he was immense. I'll never buy the argument that strikers are somehow more important to the team... they're just more visible.

[Eddie]

How could you say Rooney is comprehensively better than for example Cannavaro and Nesta? At dribbling, shooting etc. then ofcourse he is, because he's a FORWARD, they are DEFENDERS. Nesta and Cannavaro form the world's best central defensive partnership for Italy, and are also individually in the top 5 (Even an Italy-hater would have to include them in their top 10) defenders in the world. What makes a world class forward "comprehensively better" than a world class defender? You can't compare them like that, you can only compare them to players who play a similar role. As for importance to the team; Italy might very well have lost to Australia without Cannavaro, he was immense. I'll never buy the argument that strikers are somehow more important to the team... they're just more visible.

Agree with you there, but that is the way football is judged. Can you ever imagine a keeper being seen as the "best player in the world"?

[Lathund]

By the two of us and other people able to look past scoring charts yes. But not by most people no. Then again, I tend to disagree with "the masses" on a lot of things. Not gonna claim that makes them dumb (Nor that it makes me dumb) but I have my theories regarding that too

[Eddie]

By the two of us and other people able to look past scoring charts yes. But not by most people no. Then again, I tend to disagree with "the masses" on a lot of things. Not gonna claim that makes them dumb (Nor that it makes me dumb) but I have my theories regarding that too

We should start a campaign.

Really if you think about it the perfect keeper would be the best player in the most important position.

[LeChuck]

What makes a world class forward "comprehensively better" than a world class defender?

Because the majority of forwards have far more ability than defenders...

It's like comparing a brain surgeon with a nurse. They both may work in the same place and be on the same side, but it's plain to see which is the most skilled of the two.

[Lathund]

They have more technical ability. They don't have more ability to defend well. Take a striker and put him as a centre half and he'll be crap. Take a centre half and play him as a striker and he'll be crap. A brain surgeon wouldn't necessarily be a crap nurse, as he has all the medical training a nurse has, only more. That's the difference.

The skill and ability for a defender is more physical and tactical (But also technical;winning headers, making tackles, directing blocks/interceptions to a fellow player etc), but that doesn't mean it doesn't take ability.

[LeChuck]

I'm not saying a striker could do a defender's job...ask a heart surgeon to give you a hair cut and I'm pretty sure they'd fail.

However, given a football at their feet, most strikers have far more ability than defenders and are justifiably more celebrated as players.

Edited June 27, 2006 by LeChuck