[Archived] Walkersteel Blackburn End?

[Bing]

This is falling on deaf ears, but it's £27.

The official website states:

"Seats are extremely limited in this area."

Its one small bloke at the Darwen End side of the Riverside. Although for a few quid more you can sit on the front few rows where you're liable to get soaked with rain.

Decisions, decisions....

[Tris]

£36 is a lot of money for sure - and so was £32 last season for the top category games.

So is £35 at Watford, £39 at Reading, £44 at Spurs - and we're trying to compete with those teams irrespective of the size of the local population or difference in average wage. We're playing at the highest level, not Conference 1 North.

Will a 4 quid increase make the calamitous difference in home area crowd figures which have been suggested over the last 6 pages?

I don't think so. Those of us who are walk on fans gulped a bit at £32, and we'll gulp even more at £36 - but the number who turn away this time will be very small. Most of the turn away fans did so long ago.

And therein lies the crucial misconception being aired in this thread. People still think these "floating 'supporters'" are going to come back to Ewood if the tickets were a few quid cheaper - they aren't!!!!

They didn't last time we finished top 6, or when we won a cup, tried cheap tickets, improved the quality of football, won lots of home games, had a "star" in Bellamy, changed the management team, played different tunes when the teams run out, or had a blue and white balloon, flag and atmosphere day at Ewood Park.

So realism has taken over. No Darwen end season tickets, and when the chance comes along to milk the away fans it has to be taken.

Not that it'll make much difference. Arsenal will generate 60 MILLION this season from income in their new Emirates Stadium. Rovers will generate around 6 million at Ewood. Rovers could charge walk-on fans any price between £20 and £40 and that 6 mill wouldn't rise above 7 million or drop below 5.

They have the best data they've ever had on trends and ticket spend, and have made the best decisions for the club on the basis of that information. Messageboard critics will always know better, but have no hard facts to support their suppositions and preferred solutions - which are often based solely on emotion.

[Billinge End Blue]

Paul

<The fans we need are in the pub. Why? I don't know, it's beyond my comprehension. A Rovers fan should be at Ewood. If you are making a genuine protest, as cletus is doing, fair enough, but if you're in the pub downing a gallon of beer, twenty fags and a carry out please don't tell me you're a fan or bleat about prices.>

True first sentence; the thing is, it was once feasible for many of those non-attending Rovers fans to get to the game AND down a gallon of beer with twenty fags and not have to chose between the two 'leisure options' ; there were less concerns about a poor atmosphere at Ewood Park in those days too!

[Fife Rover]

Fife - I think you'll find Rovers' highest ever league average was just over 30,000 the first season back in the top flight in the late 50's. As you say, certain games attracted very high attendances, Liverpool twice in a week at Ewood in the 50's, FA Cup & second div, 52k and 40k, Burnley in the FA Cup in 60, 53k with 10k locked outside etc etc, but the highest average has been 30k.

I don't dispute your figures CLB. My reply to Pleasure was a spur of the moment effort without resort to actual records from books etc, and was just based on my own memories and impressions from actual attendance at most of Rovers home games from the first season after WW2 onwards. Obviously the figures I gave were estimates and only meant to show Pleasure that he was wrong to state that Rovers have never had big crowds.

I have very often gone staight from my work on Saturday mornings to Ewood because if you did not get there by about 1-30 for a 3pm K.O. you risked not being able to see properly on the BBE. And it was a standing joke among Rovers fans that once you got a place where you could see clearly, you did not move from it under any circumstances. Which meant that you could not go to the toilets and so had to use the pocket of the guy in front of you and hope he was an away fan.

[RevidgeBlue]

The "maximising revenue" argument is an extremely shortsighted one and if we're going to maintain let alone increase the home fanbase for the long term good of the club we need to look at rather more imaginative ideas than fleecing a few sets of away fans for every penny we can and putting off our own supporters from attending the same games.

The mantra should not be "How do we maximise revenue for the Everton game?" but "How do we get as many Blackburn fans into that game and more importantly how do we get them to come back again and again?

If gates continue to decline this is going to have to be addressed as a matter of urgency. It's my perception from going to games that the core support at Ewood is very elderly compared to that at City grounds - there'll be a relatively high percentage unable or unwilling to go each season due to infirmity.

Where are the people going to come from to replace them? I'm haven't got stats to prove it but I would have thought that most new adult ST'S come from people who have had a reasonable history of attending on a match by match basis. I doubt many people go straight from not going at all to buying a ST. We can't simply disregard or take a "tough titty you should have bought a season ticket" or "I'm a better fan than you" attitude towards the walk on fan.

The one section of the town's population that is expanding at a prodigious rate is the Asian community. What's the progress (or otherwise) with encouraging them down in far greater numbers?

In an ideal world we could do with writing off the 6m gate receipts we get every year and starting completely afresh from a perspective of how to fill the ground with home support, getting them reasonably hooked and taking it from there. Obviously we can't afford to do that but by the same token we should never ever throw in the towel on attendances.

[des]

to jan

thanks for the imput

for the record I get sky for the whole family and not just me

I work every other saterday so A season ticket is not an option

however it still stands that for the cheapest seat there are very limted and the view is not good.

so the fact is either I can watch rovers and stop sky in which case the whole family loses out, or I have sky and rovers lose out. AS I have had its about decsions, and I am happy with mine

[Tris]

The mantra should not be "How do we maximise revenue for the Everton game?" but "How do we get as many Blackburn fans into that game and more importantly how do we get them to come back again and again?

Getting as many Rovers fans through the door has been the mantra for 5 years and more. They're not coming - whatever Rovers do on or off the field.

You sit on the fans forum - what have you proposed in all those meetings these last few years? What reactions did you get? Have your ideas been tried out? If not, why not?

Maximising revenue HAS to be the priority now. Fleecing away fans might pay the wage of an important player for a season, who could make a difference. Going after non existant home fans won't do that.

[American]

Why do Tesco do Buy One Get One Free's when they could sell both at the usual price? To protect and grow their customer base, and revenue, over the long haul.

Many reasons, high inventory they want to get rid of. They know the item will get people in the door who will go buy higher margin items while they are there.

Stores like that don't worry about the long haul, they work on the assumption that people are generally suckers, and we are.

[Tris]

The one section of the town's population that is expanding at a prodigious rate is the Asian community. What's the progress (or otherwise) with encouraging them down in far greater numbers?

Going off at a tangent (and hopefully not an inflammatory one) ....

I spent Saturday and Sunday at Headingley watching the cricket. It was noticeable (and surprising) that the make up of the crowd was massively weighted towards English support. Similar story when at Old Trafford and Lords. Perhaps 80-20 at Leeds and 90-10 at the other two.

Watching the 5th day highlights on Sky tonight, and support at Headingley seemed to be around 50-50 England and Pakistan ... could be down to ticket prices (£15 today, compared with £22 - £42 days 1-4), could be down to variations in unemployment levels between West Yorkshire residents who support England and those who support Pakistan, could be down to the potential for a Pakistan victory today - or it could be none of the above.

It doesn't really matter - cricket is way bigger than football and the local Pakistani fans didn't even bother turning up for their national side until day 5 of a test that happens once every 4 years. Getting similar folk down to Ewood week in week out to follow Rovers is a hopeless cause.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Tris

[RevidgeBlue]

You sit on the fans forum - what have you proposed in all those meetings these last few years? What reactions did you get? Have your ideas been tried out? If not, why not?

I don't think it's any secret that Ive always been extremely strongly opposed to the "pack as many away fans in as we can" philosophy and I think from memory the Fans Forum Chairman invited me on partially because of that.

At that time when we arguably could have filled the ground with Rovers fans for the big games, we made it far too difficult for "floaters" to get tickets because of restrictions citing THAT City game. With the benefit of hindsight a few years on, the failure of that policy can't be denied - average gates have plummeted.

Now the restrictions are largely forgotten but unfortunately we can't fill the ground with either home OR away fans for at least seventeen of the nineteen games. We have to be extremely careful we don't put any more people off with unrealistic pricing. 36 quid at a third empty stadium is not the same as to 36 quid at a stadium that is sold out.

[RevidgeBlue]

Getting similar folk down to Ewood week in week out to follow Rovers is a hopeless cause.

An Asian lad on the Fans Forum didn't agree with this at some point last year. Apologies if this sounds flippant, (not meant to be) but he said the first question on most young men's lips on coming out of the mosque was not "How did the cricket go? but how did Rovers go on?" He thought the interest was there.

That said - he didn't have any obvious solutions for getting them down to the ground.

[Tris]

At that time when we arguably could have filled the ground with Rovers fans for the big games, we made it far too difficult for "floaters" to get tickets because of restrictions citing THAT City game. With the benefit of hindsight a few years on, the failure of that policy can't be denied - average gates have plummeted.

That's not a fair or balanced comment either.

Infiltration into the Riverside and JW stands was rife - long before the City fiasco. Pockets of away fans and subsequent trouble when the likes of Man U and Liverpool came to visit will have driven away far more "floating" fans than were prevented from buying tickets when sensible restrictions were brought in to stop infiltration.

I remember one Liverpool game when I sat in the JW upper and it was like being in the Kop. Rovers fans were leaving at half time because it was so unpleasant. The policies which have stopped infiltration are a total success - not the failure you suggest.

[Jan]

That's not a fair or balanced comment either.

Infiltration into the Riverside and JW stands was rife - long before the City fiasco. Pockets of away fans and subsequent trouble when the likes of Man U and Liverpool came to visit will have driven away far more "floating" fans than were prevented from buying tickets when sensible restrictions were brought in to stop infiltration.

I remember one Liverpool game when I sat in the JW upper and it was like being in the Kop. Rovers fans were leaving at half time because it was so unpleasant. The policies which have stopped infiltration are a total success - not the failure you suggest.

Shocking as it may seem I've agreed with almost everything Tris has said on this subject. Especially about this infiltration. It used to be really unpleasant (if full) for Manure, Liverpoo etc. Now it's emptier but much better (and feels safer)

Des:

Freeview £29.99 for non-sports stuff. Not per month- one-off.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Jan

[RevidgeBlue]

Shocking as it may seem I've agreed with almost everything Tris has said on this subject. Especially about this infiltration. It used to be really unpleasant (if full) for Manure, Liverpoo etc. Now it's emptier but much better (and feels safer)

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the current gate debate but does it really matter if you're sat next to a couple of Man Ure or Liverpool fans? I've had that in the past on numerous occasions with no problems whatsoever.

And as with any other fan if they're out of order it's down to the Police/stewards to eject them. They don't seem to have any problem ejecting our lot at away games.

[stuwilky]

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the current gate debate but does it really matter if you're sat next to a couple of Man Ure or Liverpool fans? I've had that in the past on numerous occasions with no problems whatsoever.

And as with any other fan if they're out of order it's down to the Police/stewards to eject them. They don't seem to have any problem ejecting our lot at away games.

I think it depends on the people.

I was threatened with "putting your f ing head through that f ing wall you f ing inbred" wimply for suggesting that an offside decision against Everton wasnt offside. (and questionning the parentage of the linesman!)

[CAPT KAYOS]

I think it depends on the people.

I was threatened with "putting your f ing head through that f ing wall you f ing inbred" wimply for suggesting that an offside decision against Everton wasnt offside. (and questionning the parentage of the linesman!)

Tris, Jan, Stuw, - although I can see your side here this is not the point and I have to agree with Rev again!!!! (and no we are not related )

Infiltration has always and will continue to be part and parcel of the game and it still continued regardless of the restrictions - in addition difference being is that even Utd and Liverpools following has dwindled over the last couple of seasons. In addition has Rev has said - has any of you stood your ground (remember you are the home fans) or advised the Police/Stewards to get them ejected - certainly worked for me against Citeh even though I nearly ended up getting thrown out myself.

I'll say it again - I can understand why the club have priced this game as it is - but it is not right and they are losing contact with the 'real world' of Blackburn and lost the chance years ago to capitalise on the situation of Fan retention but went about it in completely the wrong way..

We all know Rovers have previously not been very good and communicating with the Blackburn Public , although this would appear to be changing but pricing this game as they have done will only put people off and will be detriment to future paying customers as they will just get the impression that rovers are overpriced -regardless of what the club do after that.

[cletus]

As Jan said about 4 pages back (i`ve been away )...

"It stops when people stop paying it."

All i can say is , 5000+ people already have stopped paying it & i`m quickly becoming a member of these lost souls.

Some of you might say "we don`t need fans like you".....my answer is "Maybe so, but how many more fans of over 25yrs loyalty can the club afford to lose?"

I love & always will love my town, club & colours ....but i won`t be held to ransom for fear of being 'disloyal'.

[RevidgeBlue]

The line is going to have to be drawn in the sand at some point. Where does it end?

To take the maximising revenue argument on a stage it'd be far easier logistically to charge 2600 people one hundred pounds a head than 20,000 thirteen quid a head. Less staff, overheads etc.

But not even thick Mancs would pay that and it's not just about that is it? You have to strike a balance between revenue and filling the ground and creating a viable atmosphere.

For the same sort of 260,000 total revenue I'd much rather see 30,000 people in at an average eight pounds a head. Probably wouldn't work that well but you can see the point I'm trying to make.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The line is going to have to be drawn in the sand at some point. Where does it end?

This is the crux of the matter,how long before the 'die-hard' gets fed up with the prices,we all have a cut off point financially.

God help our attendances if we have a bad season... the sh1t will really hit the fan so to speak

Edited August 9, 2006 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[blue phil]

Maximising revenue HAS to be the priority now. Fleecing away fans might pay the wage of an important player for a season, who could make a difference. Going after non existant home fans won't do that.

Maximising revenue will frighten off thousands of home fans - it already has done . If those fans are sacrificed for the greater good they WON'T return . If they don't return their kids won't come and the fan base goes down and down .

Personally speaking , I'm lucky in that a season ticket is fine for me - I'm available anytime for the games . But if I didn't have a season ticket these prices would have been the last straw (and no I don't want to sit in the bike shed!) . My party take a total of 4 kids ; those future fans would all be put in jeapardy if we were walk on fans . Like the supermarket ad says ...once they're gone , they're gone !

[Gav]

£36 is a lot of money for sure - and so was £32 last season for the top category games.

So is £35 at Watford, £39 at Reading, £44 at Spurs - and we're trying to compete with those teams irrespective of the size of the local population or difference in average wage. We're playing at the highest level, not Conference 1 North.

Will a 4 quid increase make the calamitous difference in home area crowd figures which have been suggested over the last 6 pages?

I don't think so. Those of us who are walk on fans gulped a bit at £32, and we'll gulp even more at £36 - but the number who turn away this time will be very small. Most of the turn away fans did so long ago.

And therein lies the crucial misconception being aired in this thread. People still think these "floating 'supporters'" are going to come back to Ewood if the tickets were a few quid cheaper - they aren't!!!!

They didn't last time we finished top 6, or when we won a cup, tried cheap tickets, improved the quality of football, won lots of home games, had a "star" in Bellamy, changed the management team, played different tunes when the teams run out, or had a blue and white balloon, flag and atmosphere day at Ewood Park.

So realism has taken over. No Darwen end season tickets, and when the chance comes along to milk the away fans it has to be taken.

Not that it'll make much difference. Arsenal will generate 60 MILLION this season from income in their new Emirates Stadium. Rovers will generate around 6 million at Ewood. Rovers could charge walk-on fans any price between £20 and £40 and that 6 mill wouldn't rise above 7 million or drop below 5.

They have the best data they've ever had on trends and ticket spend, and have made the best decisions for the club on the basis of that information. Messageboard critics will always know better, but have no hard facts to support their suppositions and preferred solutions - which are often based solely on emotion.

Amen

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The support will only decrease if prices continue to rise...there is no 'amen' about it Mr Buck!!

[roverich]

I refuse to be ripped off, so i`m not going.

I was just reading the "Loyalty" thread and read a posted saying the only people who are loyal in football are the fans. To a certain extent I disagreed with him, and you're my proof! I say again, you don't have to pay £37, you can get on for about a tenner less by sitting elsewhere and here's the hidden bonus; you'll still get to watch the same game! Premiership football for under £30 can be found in very few places but Rovers offer it for every single home game.

EDIT: A generalisation of northeners is that we will always find something to complain about and I bet everyone of you would actively disagree with it.

Edited August 9, 2006 by roverich

[cn174]

I was just reading the "Loyalty" thread and read a posted saying the only people who are loyal in football are the fans. To a certain extent I disagreed with him, and you're my proof!

In the other thread you said:

"Have you seen the number of people on this board who threaten never to go to another game if this happens or because that happened?! Call that loyalty? In my opinion a loyal fan would be a fan who stands by the club and continues to give them their full support regardless of who they buy/sell, etc."

but that doesn't really apply here. Cletus isn't not going to Ewood because of who we've bought, not bought, sold, we lost in a friendly today. I'm sure that he's been watching Rovers whilst we were crap in the 80s and when we got relegated in 99. Its nowt to do with how the team performs, its about money. Some people aren't willing to pay the said amounts of money just for one game of footy.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Its nowt to do with how the team performs, its about money. Some people aren't willing to pay the said amounts of money just for one game of footy.

Now thats Amen !!!!!