[Archived] Sheff Utd Win Tribunal

[philipl]

I completely agree with the Sheffield Utd's position. They did suffer due to West Ham's cheating. It was a bit brutal. It was shameful the way West Ham got away with it for so long.

It does open a family pack of cans of worms though. Theoretically every decision in a game can now be challenged in legal terms - the Reading goal against Wolves being a prime example. Judges are going to be asked to work out what might have happened on the field if things had gone differently. And this can happen at every level where significant money is involved - promotion, relegation, qualifying for the CL, winning the FA cup.

It sets a precedent that clubs and players (look at the Sheff Utd's players now) could exploit and turn into legal mayhem, and could potentially spread to other sports.

I can see why the FA is getting twitchy. They should have had the balls to nip this in the bud by docking points the moment that Tevez and Mascerano's registration was found to be clearly illegal.

If you read the document, it doesn't open any doors like that.

[PMT]

SSN have been anti-Sheffield with some journalist saying it is a disgrace that Wham have been punished again, Sheff. Utd have been trying to push it until they get the 'right' result, Tevez had little effect because its a team game, what if someone else scored the goals, the Premership is not to blame, other teams will challenge relegation in the courts and so on.

What tosh.

Isn't it well known that a high number of London based journos are West 'am fans.

[American]

The thing that bothers me is that what West Ham did isn't really any different than what Liverpool did when they loaned Masch and United did when they loaned Tevez - they just used technicalities to get around the rule.

[Al]

The thing that bothers me is that what West Ham did isn't really any different than what Liverpool did when they loaned Masch and United did when they loaned Tevez - they just used technicalities to get around the rule.

They also sought approval from the FA BEFORE they did it.

[American]

Again - only different on a technicality.

[roverthemoon]

It is an argument that gets a lot of backing though - Sheff Utd deserved to go down because they were poor.

Sheff Utd didn't cheat though - and didn't continue cheating and lying even after they were found out.

That post puts in a nutshell why West Ham should put up and shut up.

Sheffield Utd played by the rules and West Ham didn't.

[blue phil]

Cheers for the summing up.

No doubt the 4 MB critics who were slagging philipl off the other day are about to give us their own considered analysis of the 50 page legal document any time now ...

Who on Earth would have the inclination to "analyse" a 50 page legal document about the fate of two clubs ............neither of whom are Rovers ?

Make that 5 MB critics ........

[Drakefyre]

Some of us do care about football in general - it's not like Rovers play in a vacuum.

[philipl]

West Ham "likely to have to pay most of the £30m". Also confirmation that West Ham have been involved in a media campaign since the announcement to try to seed doubts in judicial minds. However, the amount of clout there was in the the members of the three man arbitration panel leads me to think that no UK Court is going to overturn their ruling.

The judgement which they issued is a model of clarity and reasoning.

All this business about setting a precedent really is rubbish- it is only a precedent if clubs think it is going to be normal practise for the FA/Premier League to hand out a record fine then be lied to and the offence deliberately continued.

As for American's ridiculously spurious contribution, how do you define a "technicality"?

- West Ham offering £4.7m to buy the services of a player for two games they allegedly already owned?

- West Ham getting the Premier League to say a contract has been dissolved whilst at the same time taking lawyers to a meeting to assure the third party his agreement continues in order to prevent the third party from hoiking his player out of the last two games of the season?

- The third party taking out injury insurance so the player could play for West Ham?

- The Premier League stopping the transfer of Tevez to Man U to insist that West Ham be paid for the player's registration only for West Ham then to have to pay that same transfer fee straight back to the third party?

[thenodrog]

They have engaged Maurice Watkins, the Man U ex-Director and solicitor who helped untangle the Tevez mess for Man U but that might not help them over much.

Not only that Watkins managed, unbelievably, to get the Cantona kung fu attack on Matthew Symonds (commonly referred to as 'the ###### hitting the fan' viewed as a racist issue! God only knows how a white caucasian committing gbh in front of millions on another white caucasian can evr be viewed as racism.

Dont write Watkins dubious abilities off.

[AussieinUk]

If you want to take a view on whether other parties now have a claim against West Ham read paras 52-63

If you want confirmation that West Ham were being VERY naughty boys AFTER they were fined by the Prem read paras 39-46, then read paras 68-70.

If you have any doubt that West Ham themselves think Tevez saved them from relegation, read paras 71-80 and the way the Arbitrators effectively AVOID saying that Tevez alone saved West Ham- merely being part of the saving is enough to decide the case. Two old Rovers' names- Lucas Neill and Dario Marcolin put in an appearance.

The nub of the issue is that-

West Ham lied to the Premier League when Tevez and Mascherano joined but the killer which will cost them is the fact that at the same time seven days' after receiving the £5.5m fine whilst the Chairman and CEO of the Premier League were writing publicly to all the Prem clubs assuring them that the third party agreement on Tevez was indeed non-existant and had been ripped up;

- West Ham offered Joorabchian £4.7m to buy Tevez' contract for the last two games of the season

- West Ham verbally reassured Joorabchian in the presence of lawyers that they would still honour the agreement they told the Prem they had ripped up, and

- West Ham reimbursed Joorabchian for the player injury insurance he had to take out as West Ham's own injury insurance had in effect been made invalid by the Premier League's ruling and West Ham "ripping up" Tevez's contract

It gets even better- when the Prem intervened and forced Man U to buy the Tevez registration off West Ham for £2m, in reality West Ham were obliged by the original agreement they "ripped up" to immediately pay that fee back to Joorabchian. They didn't do so and now West Ham are forced by an out-of-court settlement to pay Joorabchian £2m for unspecified agency services.

Finally, go to the last page and read all the 24 headings a club loses money under if it suffers relegation from the Premier League. It is absolutely frightening.

Thanks for the summing up philip - Have just now caught up on the board, aftering being away for the weekend.

[philipl]

The latest twists are:

- West Ham successfully argued for a delay to the start of the damages awarding hearing of the Tribunal by insisting their new solicitors- former Man U director Maurice Watkins need 12 weeks to read the papers.

- Sheffield United are now rolling the cost of the second year outside the Premier League into their claim as a result arguing that as the award is delayed and their losses are continuing, they should be paid £50m.

In the meantime, the Icelandic banking crisis continues with enormous threats to not only the owners of West Ham but also the current owner of Newcastle as well.

[thenodrog]

The latest twists are:

- West Ham successfully argued for a delay to the start of the damages awarding hearing of the Tribunal by insisting their new solicitors- former Man U director Maurice Watkins need 12 weeks to read the papers.

- Sheffield United are now rolling the cost of the second year outside the Premier League into their claim as a result arguing that as the award is delayed and their losses are continuing, they should be paid £50m.

In the meantime, the Icelandic banking crisis continues with enormous threats to not only the owners of West Ham but also the current owner of Newcastle as well.

We're all going to be owned by Arabs at this rate!

[thenodrog]

Just a thought but with WHU in deep sh1t and with Iceland in financial meltdown (despite the best efforts of Brooking and fat Samuel) might they just wind themselves up and start again? Bloody good do if thats the case for us cos it's likely only 2 clubs will get relegated.

[Billy Castell]

And wouldn't it be funny if one of those two were Spurs?

Anyway, lets assume that the Icelandic economy implodes harder than the career of Babylon Zoo, and Whammers can't pay the £30m, could Sheffield Utd. ask for £20-30m worth of playing talent instead? Of course the players would want to go there, but who knows?

[92er]

And wouldn't it be funny if one of those two were Spurs.

I'm pretty sure that they have a powerful financial backer who wouldn't let them go bust.

[Billy Castell]

Well, we can dream.

[thenodrog]

I'm pretty sure that they have a powerful financial backer who wouldn't let them go bust.

I think Billy was alluding to Spurs going down rather than going bust.

[92er]

I think Billy was alluding to Spurs going down rather than going bust.

Yes I can see that now! Sorry Billy.

[philipl]

What the heck is going on here!?!

A few days ago West Ham could not attend a damages fixing meeting because their new solicitors were reading the papers but suddely the Court for Arbitration in Sport swings from saying it was far too busy, cannot hear the case without Sheffield United referring it and the FA rules prohibit its jurisdiction anyway to suddenly having a preliminary hearing!

Also note that although Sheff U have a similar numbers of fans as West Ham and presumably pay as many licence fees, the BBC story is "Hope for Hammers over Tevez", not "Blow for Blades over Tevez".

Stinks

[Blue blood]

Gutted but I can't say I'm surprised. The higher powers seem to have a clique of clubs they look after, and WHam sadly fall into this category.

I really hope they do implode as in my mind they cheated extensively and walked away from it scott free. They don't deserve to be in the Premiership.

[Billy Castell]

They still may suffer, I caught something about the Icelandic economy now being well and truely sunk. The value of their currency, the Krone, fell by 23% in one day. Unless someone buys them, they're seriously screwed. Mr. Brooking is probably charming people in the Premiership and the FA as I type in order to let them off the £30m fine.

[philipl]

Not a fine- its damages payable to Sheff U

[philipl]

Not surprisingly Sheffield United are confident that the Court of Arbitration in Sport has no jurisdiction in the matter unless a point of law can be found. Having gone through three judicial processes, all of which found against West Ham- the punishment is the only point of dispute- its going to be very difficult to find a substantive point of law that could be upheld.

[philipl]

Now West Ham are going to go to the High Court to argue against the Arbitration on a point of law. Smacks of desperation and suggests CAS is not a runner for them unless they want the High Court to rule on a point of law in their favour to force the issue to CAS.