[Archived] Big Sam's Big Match Targets

[broadsword]

C'mon Spencey7 (and a half), let's not turn this into another 'We Hate Big Sam' thread. I was hoping people would be objective about which games we are targeting - particularly some of the mid to lower table ones - it seems it's too soon after Saturday for it though.

Yeah - understandably so.

am feeling down about it.

[Steve Moss]

1 Fulham (A)

3 Wolverhampton (H)

1 Everton (A)

1 Aston Villa (H)

0 Arsenal (A)

3 Burnley (H)

0 Chelsea (A)

0 Man Utd (A)

3 Portsmouth (H)

3 Bolton (A)

3 Stoke (H)

0 Liverpool (H)

3 Hull (A)

3 Birmingham (A)

1 Tottenham (H)

3 Wigan (A)

3 Sunderland (H)

0 Man City (A)

3 Fulham (H)

3 Wigan (H)

3 West Ham (A)

3 Stoke (A)

3 Hull (H)

3 Bolton (H)

0 Liverpool (A)

3 Birmingham (H)

0 Tottenham (A)

0 Chelsea (H)

3 Burnley (A)

3 Portsmouth (A)

1 Man Utd (H)

3 Everton (H)

3 Wolverhampton (A)

1 Arsenal (H)

1 Aston Villa (A)

There are my choices, 68 points with the one point we already have. Accounting for mix-ups, 50+.

And I also think we'll take the Carling Cup.

Europe here we come, though considering our squad size and the wear and tear of additional games, I hope we bomb out early.

[Iceman]

Debating anything on an Internet message board is stupid and pointless - but we all do it!

Im actually backing you up on this. Just seems strange how some, are saying its stupid to be targetting certain games, when most did it last season.

[Stuart]

Im actually backing you up on this. Just seems strange how some, are saying its stupid to be targetting certain games, when most did it last season.

Sorry matey, misread your post!

[mjs]

3 West Ham (A)

Now it's officially confirmed that this thread is pointless.

[Stuart]

1 Fulham (A)

3 Wolverhampton (H)

1 Everton (A)

1 Aston Villa (H)

0 Arsenal (A)

3 Burnley (H)

0 Chelsea (A)

0 Man Utd (A)

3 Portsmouth (H)

3 Bolton (A)

3 Stoke (H)

0 Liverpool (H)

3 Hull (A)

3 Birmingham (A)

1 Tottenham (H)

3 Wigan (A)

3 Sunderland (H)

0 Man City (A)

3 Fulham (H)

3 Wigan (H)

3 West Ham (A)

3 Stoke (A)

3 Hull (H)

3 Bolton (H)

0 Liverpool (A)

3 Birmingham (H)

0 Tottenham (A)

0 Chelsea (H)

3 Burnley (A)

3 Portsmouth (A)

1 Man Utd (H)

3 Everton (H)

3 Wolverhampton (A)

1 Arsenal (H)

1 Aston Villa (A)

There are my choices, 68 points with the one point we already have. Accounting for mix-ups, 50+.

And I also think we'll take the Carling Cup.

Europe here we come, though considering our squad size and the wear and tear of additional games, I hope we bomb out early.

Thanks for taking some time to consider my initial challenge smoss.

Tell you what though with a run of:

3 Wigan (A)

3 Sunderland (H)

0 Man City (A)

3 Fulham (H)

3 Wigan (H)

3 West Ham (A)

3 Stoke (A)

3 Hull (H)

3 Bolton (H)

0 Liverpool (A)

3 Birmingham (H)

I'd be delighted! I do think we'll struggle at Stoke away - they are solid at home.

Now it's officially confirmed that this thread is pointless.

Thanks for your input mjs. I bet you are glad you bothered to type that.

I tend to agree with smoss though, a lot of our points are going to come (hopefully) between January and February and we could go on a decent run which will spur us on for the run-in - maybe that's a reason not to get too panicked with this bad start.

[elwaxo]

I think the 'pointless' reference was a joke about how we never win away in east london

[Steve Moss]

^ Never is a long time and I think it's time for some changes.

We can win a lot. We are not the worst team in the league, far from it. We aren't the best either, but that is the result of budget restraints and sound long term financial planning. Both of which some teams ignore, which is why we'll still be in the PL 3 seasons on, and they won't.

[philipl]

My impression is Sam sometimes gets his head up his own backside and chants of you don't know what you are doing coming from a few enlightened souls could well be the last thing we need at the moment.

FACTS

- we know Sam categorises games.

- we know Notlob under Sam was a game the BIG 4 hated with a passion even though Sam supposedly saw them as no hopers.

- Rovers v West Ham at Ewood last season was an absolute cracker and Rovers were traduced by only getting 1 point

- Rovers v West Ham this season was an absolute stinker against a weak West Ham there for the hammering and we were also traduced by only getting 1 point.

- The much maligned Megson Wanderers put on a fabulous game against Liverpool yet ended up null points.

CONSEQUENCE

- We are seriously worried that Sam is going to serve up the most awful entertainment-lacking dross in the remainder of this season.

I just hope after two games where we should have got points and didn't and a game better suited to Subuteo in which we finally got a point that we get the overdue breaks in the coming Wolves game to claim three points comfortably to get Sam out of his persecution mode he currently feels he is in.

Yes we all approve of no stupid goals from opposition set pieces and lots of stupid goals from our own set pieces. But football is really about what happens between set pieces and all I can say is I cannot wait until Sam is able to put out the winning team he really wants to as opposed to that ramshackle mess on Saturday.

At that point how Sam and us view winnable and point grabable games should change dramatically.

[American]

United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal probably target 114 points, why shouldn't we?

[47er]

yes but wham were there for the taking.

Selection was too negative. When I saw the starting line-up I thought there's only 1 decent attacking player in it--Dunn. Everyone else in mid-field was defensive.( I class Pedersen in that light now) and the only striker was poor Jason who doesn't look like scoring in a whole season. So I agree with Abbey, Wham were there for the taking but we didn't pick the players to do it. We looked much better when Junior came on. For most of the game when we came out of defence there was no-one in front of the ball!

[joey_big_nose]

Five years ago you used to be able to look at the league and be confident that we could put out a better team than around ten others in the league. Today it is really hard to point to any teams apart from Portsmouth, Stoke, Hull and Burnley who have a definately poorer side than we do. Then Stoke and Hull play a percentage style that maximises what they have got, and Coyle is working wonders with a range of very average indiviuals.

This isn't so much that we have got worse (I would say our team is roughly as good as the one we could put out in 2004, Tugay aside...) but rather every-bloody-body else has got a lot better. The old adage "There are no easy games in the Premiership" is true. I don't think anyone outside the top four, Man City and Spurs who have started fantastically fancies themselves away from home at the moment. It's so even that you need to build up your form otherwise you are going to get absolutely nailed.

No bones about it in my mind. This will be the hardest season we have ever had in the Premiership in terms of what we are up against. Not confident on predicting anything.

[tonyoz]

This isn't so much that we have got worse (I would say our team is roughly as good as the one we could put out in 2004, Tugay aside...) but rather every-bloody-body else has got a lot better. The old adage "There are no easy games in the Premiership" is true. I don't think anyone outside the top four, Man City and Spurs who have started fantastically fancies themselves away from home at the moment. It's so even that you need to build up your form otherwise you are going to get absolutely nailed.

I don't agree with that joey. I reckon the main reason we stayed up last season was that those around us were so poor! It looked like we were heading for a squeaky bum last day of the season because we were struggling to put the ball in the net (a bit like this season really!) but in the end we cruised through on the back of the inept performances of our rivals. Even with our disappointing start this season, we have plenty of company at the bottom.

[waggy]

the last 4 home games of the season will not be very productive points wise,we better have a good january and feb

[CAPT KAYOS]

You should take each game as it comes nothing more nothing less

Its not about drawing or losing - we should be aiming for 3 pts regardless not having hysterics about what the opposition is going to do.

We have done ok in the previous x2 games to warrant sticking with the formation - maybe not the result but performance wise something was there - what does he do but changes it and looked what happened. There was no need to adopt a different mode to the previous games - we had the players for the positions.

[roverich]

It's definitely realistic to have expectations ahead of certain games, "must win" games if you will. Just because there are those expectations does not mean there is also an expectation to lose any games, it's more a case of there being some games, which, we're not relying on to save our season but playing to get everything we can from them and focusing on the fact that if we are to survive then there are certain games we must win.

I find some expectations a little optimistic though; like of Stoke (intermittently), Bolton, Fulham, West Ham (last match aside) are good sides and difficult to play against. Expecting so many points on the road is a tough one, especially with our appalling (in the sense that we just simply lack any consistent quality at all) midfield. Having failed to replace Bentley, losing Santa Cruz and Warnock the next summer and not having any midfield quality for a considerable amount of time now, we had an awful lot of work to do in the transfer market and the kind of spending required to maintain the same level quality in the squad is well above our resources. Consequently we've failed to maintain the level of quality required in this league. Thankfully we're not the only side to suffer in this way over the last couple of seasons and unless all three promoted sides have exceptional seasons then I think we'll stay above he drop, but only just.

We should be targetting 30 points at home and 10 points away and we'll do fairly well to get that. I think, given the number of much stronger and better looking sides in the league this season, the points spread will be much greater than previously and 40 points will be a few more than we need to stay up. 50 points will put us in the top half and that would be a staggeringly exceptional achievement for the squad we have at the close of this transfer window.

[Hughesy]

Sams plan - beat the bottom 9-10 clubs, anything else is a bonus.

[philipl]

I think Sam had dwelt too long on the Wolves v West Ham game in which the WHammers picked off two first half goals and contained everything Wolves threw at them with ease.

I guess with only Roberts match fit, Sam knew we were never going to rescue a point if WHam scored so he set out to make sure we got at least a point.

Hopefully, we will not see similar circumstances against such a limited side as West Ham again.

[tonyoz]

I think Sam had dwelt too long on the Wolves v West Ham game in which the WHammers picked off two first half goals and contained everything Wolves threw at them with ease.

I guess with only Roberts match fit, Sam knew we were never going to rescue a point if WHam scored so he set out to make sure we got at least a point.

Hopefully, we will not see similar circumstances against such a limited side as West Ham again.

Yes indeed, or my faith in Big Sam will rapidly evaporate.

Sams plan - beat the bottom 9-10 clubs, anything else is a bonus.

I find that very depressing!

[LeChuck]

Bolton were always a pain in the backside for the top four when Sam was there, I think people are making far too much of this 'match targeting'.

My theory on the West Ham game is that losing our opening three fixtures of the season could have been disastrous for confidence. It's not like we just sat back and played for a draw, we did have chances to win. I'll be disappointed if we approach games like that in the future, but I can see why it ended up that way on Saturday.

[1864roverite]

I think Sam and his team will have split the league into 3 catergories.

Bonus games

Might get something games

Must win/not lose games.

Like a fellow member has already mentioned, my view is as follows as to how those games might fit into this seasons planning, hopes and ambitions.

Bonus games 09/10

Liverpool, Chelsea, Manure and Arsenal - anything must be considered a massive bonus if we can achieve any sort of positive result versus these teams.

Might get something games

Sunderland (a) - 0 points, Man City (h and a) - 0 points home game, Spurs and Wham (a), Villa (a).

Must win/not lose games

Burnley (h and a)

Hull (h and a)

Brum (h and a)

Portsmouth (h and a)

Bolton (h and a)

Sunderland (h)

Wigan (h and a)

Everton (h and a)

Fulham (h and a)

Wolves (h and a)

Stoke (h and a)

wham (h)*****1 pt already on the board

Spurs (h)

The HOME games marked in red are gmes we have to hope to win and must definately not lose.

The away games in black are games we should be looking at getting a point as a minimum return, maybe even looking at the squad quality all 3 points.

Stoke away will be a hard game but its winnable. Spurs home will probably be the hardest game outside of the top 4 teams but again its winnable.

Obtaining 39 points will almost surely be the minimum requirement to stay up and its imperative we set out stall accordingly. I am sure Sam and co are ready for the challenge.

[tony gale's mic]

We HAVE to aim for more than 40 points.

If we aim for Europe and miss that, then at least we'll be safe enough. That was the mindset of our club till Ince took over bar a dodgy season or so and that was why the spectre of relegation rarely loomed, and even when it did it didnt last long. That was the thinking behind us signing players like RSC, Tugay and Benni amongst others.

The moment we get into the mindset of being a club who just wants to stay up and keep their head above water, sooner or later a few things will go wrong in a season and we'll find ourselves relegated.

That's what worries me the most right now.

[Paul]

C'mon Spencey7 (and a half), let's not turn this into another 'We Hate Big Sam' thread. I was hoping people would be objective about which games we are targeting - particularly some of the mid to lower table ones - it seems it's too soon after Saturday for it though.

Targetting points is fine if it's a discussion on the lines of we should get 3 points home to Wolves, 1 away to United would be a bonus etc. However there were indications last season, and this season against WHU, Allardyce does categorise games and target them accordingly. We almost always go to Anfield, last season it cost me £120 plus travel / food and within five minutes it was obvious the team had no intention of trying to win the game. We have decided we will NOT be going to Anfield or any other away game where we believe the team will not try to win. Until there is a clear shift in the manager's attitude Rovers have lost our support at Anfield and Old Trafford this season. This is percentage football at it's very worst. That is the consequence of targeting games.

[SouthAussieRover]

Targetting points is fine if it's a discussion on the lines of we should get 3 points home to Wolves, 1 away to United would be a bonus etc. However there were indications last season, and this season against WHU, Allardyce does categorise games and target them accordingly. We almost always go to Anfield, last season it cost me £120 plus travel / food and within five minutes it was obvious the team had no intention of trying to win the game. We have decided we will NOT be going to Anfield or any other away game where we believe the team will not try to win. Until there is a clear shift in the manager's attitude Rovers have lost our support at Anfield and Old Trafford this season. This is percentage football at it's very worst. That is the consequence of targeting games.

Targeting games can also be argued as being symptomatic of a league competition in decline.

No longer do the majority of teams have a chance of winning the premiership. The financial reward of staying in the premier league coupled with the nightmare reprecussions of potential relegation must surely have an effect on a managers thinking.

[Graham Fenton]

Targetting points is fine if it's a discussion on the lines of we should get 3 points home to Wolves, 1 away to United would be a bonus etc. However there were indications last season, and this season against WHU, Allardyce does categorise games and target them accordingly. We almost always go to Anfield, last season it cost me £120 plus travel / food and within five minutes it was obvious the team had no intention of trying to win the game. We have decided we will NOT be going to Anfield or any other away game where we believe the team will not try to win. Until there is a clear shift in the manager's attitude Rovers have lost our support at Anfield and Old Trafford this season. This is percentage football at it's very worst. That is the consequence of targeting games.

I think big sam will suprise us all this season it seems his tactics are better suited to taking points of the big 4 and this is possibly were we will get a lot of points this year.