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I wonder if the England based clubs joining the ESL are using Arsenal letter-headed paper for their applications like they did when forming the Premier League or whatever it was called at the start.

Same culprits so probably have it in stock.

Lesson 1: Never sell a Club to Septics.

Lesson 2: Globalisation is Colonisation.

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Football has always been about money and greed.

The formation of the Premier League in early 1990s was about greed
 

The Champions League, vastly inferior to the old European Cup, was about greed

The ESL is no different

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2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Harry kane wouldn't give up captaining his country at the euros to play in some tinpot franchise 

I would say that would depend on how much money he is offered.

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1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Why are fans so up in arms about the ESL? It's only an extension of the Champions League - which already concentrated power and wealth with a few clubs and made football more of an elite game

Because as much as the Premier League and Champions League was about greed, if you performed well enough you could get access to that money. The Premier League wealth was allowed to be shared to Barnsley, Swindon and Huddersfield instead of Leeds and Newcastle as their relative performances earned it.

Leicester have been in the Champions League. In a season where several of the big 6 are under-performing, they may do so again along with West ham. 

It always felt like it took money to get at the money, but at least you could get at it on merit. This way you get at it by invitation only, and those that have it can never lose it.

 

Edited by Hasta
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If this goes ahead, and the Premier League money starts to dry up as the media rights' deals collapse, that removes Venky's "lucky promotion" as an option to get their money back. 

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27 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Football has always been about money and greed.

The formation of the Premier League in early 1990s was about greed
 

The Champions League, vastly inferior to the old European Cup, was about greed

The ESL is no different

While that is sadly true in a way, the ESL is still worse. Even though the 'merit-based' format of the Champions League greatly depends on a clubs finances, the ESL makes it actually impossible for even the slightest challenge to be launched against the status quo. It is the final nail in the coffin.

 

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26 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Football has always been about money and greed.

The formation of the Premier League in early 1990s was about greed
 

The Champions League, vastly inferior to the old European Cup, was about greed

The ESL is no different

Yes but it's alright when the clean and squeaky UEFA, FIFA or national FA do it, Jim! It's all official!

There will be no surprises if the aforementioned footballing authorities negotiate a financial package with the ESL. The key word being "financial". Anything else goes by the wayside.

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6 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Because as much as the Premier League and Champions League was about greed, if you performed well enough you could get access to that money. The Premier League wealth was allowed to be shared to Barnsley, Swindon and Huddersfield instead of Leeds and Newcastle as their relative performances earned it.

Leicester have been in the Champions League. In a season where several of the big 6 are under-performing, they may do so again along with West ham. 

It always felt like it took money to get at the money, but at least you could get at it on merit. This way you get at it by invitation only, and those that have it can never lose it.

 

 The majority of football league clubs - unless they get lucky - are cut off from that money because they will never have the resources to get to it. Rovers included now probably

The PL and CL were formed to create a cartel of very rich clubs with the rest on the outside looking in - and it's been very successful in doing that 

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Only just caught up with this - avoid the news usually as its depressing most of the time.

Let them get on with it - Spurs and Chelsea ffs, just cos they London teams. Ban all players from England team, ban teams from domestic leagues and make it so once they become a part of it, no way back for any of them. Who would want to sign for Madrid if it meant should things not work out if you couldn't get back into domestic football?

Gotta laugh at the Sky gang though.

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2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 The majority of football league clubs - unless they get lucky - are cut off from that money because they will never have the resources to get to it. Rovers included now probably

The PL and CL were formed to create a cartel of very rich clubs with the rest on the outside looking in - and it's been very successful in doing that 

But you can get there on merit. Just ask Burnley.

In this situation with the ESL you cannot.

That's the difference. 

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

 The majority of football league clubs - unless they get lucky - are cut off from that money because they will never have the resources to get to it. Rovers included now probably

The PL and CL were formed to create a cartel of very rich clubs with the rest on the outside looking in - and it's been very successful in doing that 

But clubs like Rover and Leicester could break into that elite group through good management. Now they can't as it's (mainly) going to be invite only. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hasta said:

But you can get there on merit. Just ask Burnley.

In this situation with the ESL you cannot.

That's the difference. 

The PL is effectively a closed shop because of wealth.

Leicester (and Rovers) winning the league were aberrations (and we were accused of buying the title)...they'll happen every 25 years or so; in the main the same clubs keep getting relegated from and win promotion to the PL.

Even within the PL there are glass ceilings, or 3 leagues within the same league, those who will always struggle, those usually in the middle, and the same ones always at the top.

The PL and current structure of English football is not a meritocracy

 

 

 

 

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I agree with Jim in that the current format of the sport benefits the rich clubs. What is different though is that in theory you can still now reach them heights with good management (rich takeover) and by winning games. In this E$L they have effectively ended any ambition for other clubs and ensured they will forever be the clubs bank rolled by the bankers to the tunes of billions and billions of pounds.

At the moment Man Utd could effectively still lose out on a Champions League space and lose the prize money. Leicester could qualify and earn that prize money. Under the E$L Leicester could finish above Arsenal and Tottenham and still not qualify! It makes no sense.

Yes, the current state of football needs to change, but by dismissing the pure greed on show by the E$L with whataboutery about UEFA, it only plays into their hands.

This saga has shown greed in its true form. Time to stamp it out.

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1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Only just caught up with this - avoid the news usually as its depressing most of the time.

Let them get on with it - Spurs and Chelsea ffs, just cos they London teams. Ban all players from England team, ban teams from domestic leagues and make it so once they become a part of it, no way back for any of them. Who would want to sign for Madrid if it meant should things not work out if you couldn't get back into domestic football?

Gotta laugh at the Sky gang though.

So no Big 6 in the Premier League. Not sure if that will be a breach of contract from the PL to the existing broadcasters / sponsors, but fairly quickly the Premier League money will dry up. Then the EFL money. All clubs from the likes of West Ham down will need to quickly cut their cloth and many will go bust. 

I suspect the ESL will pass some money across the the Premier League to 'allow' their clubs to compete and to keep the Premier league running.

58 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

The PL is effectively a closed shop because of wealth.

Leicester (and Rovers) winning the league were aberrations (and we were accused of buying the title)...they'll happen every 25 years or so; in the main the same clubs keep getting relegated from and win promotion to the PL.

Even within the PL there are glass ceilings, or 3 leagues within the same league, those who will always struggle, those usually in the middle, and the same ones always at the top.

The PL and current structure of English football is not a meritocracy

But those ceilings can be broken. We did it, Leicester did it. With regards to the money available for getting in the top 4 and a Champions League spot, Newcastle did it. Leeds did it. Tottenham did it and have now got their golden ticket.

Previously it could, and was, done. Now it is to become a closed shop.

.

Edited by Hasta
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Letting teams leave and saying that the ESL is no different than the current situation in the Prem and CL is wrong. 

Clubs with more money do win trophies but at present there is nothing stopping teams from cracking into the top band. City and Chelsea have done it through mega money owners. It may not be everybody's cup of tea but it happened.

A closed shop makes an absolute mockery of sporting principles. 

FIFA, UEFA, and the FA need to come down hard and quickly on the rebel clubs.

Ban the teams, ban the players, remove their registrations. 

Football is a global game, but local structure needs to stay in place. 

Can local authorities intervene too? Manchester city council rescinding Old Trafford's safety certificate? Refuse to police games?

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

The PL is effectively a closed shop because of wealth.

Leicester (and Rovers) winning the league were aberrations (and we were accused of buying the title)...they'll happen every 25 years or so; in the main the same clubs keep getting relegated from and win promotion to the PL.

Even within the PL there are glass ceilings, or 3 leagues within the same league, those who will always struggle, those usually in the middle, and the same ones always at the top.

The PL and current structure of English football is not a meritocracy

 

 

 

 

West Ham might qualify for the CL this year, as might Everton, based on points gained over the season - meritocracy. 

They haven't been invited to join the ESL as they are not one of the '15' - closed shop

 

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2 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Can local authorities intervene too? Manchester city council rescinding Old Trafford's safety certificate? Refuse to police games?

The refusal to police games is a good point although I think currently clubs contribute to the cost of policing. In this instance it probably wouldn’t be any different for the local authority.

Man Utd have the technical right to play in any league they would like so rescinding safety certificates is a bit draconian. 
 

I think expulsion from the league, relinquish titles and ban players from cross-competition registration should suffice. Almost all will stick with the ESL clubs but there’s plenty of other footballers ready to step up, and plenty of other big clubs ready to play in the Premier League. 6 could go up from the Championship this year and everyone else could get given a chance. 
 

The money might dry up but the remaining clubs could use it as a Kickstarter to regulate the sports finances and develop a fairer pyramid for all. 
 

It is the fans of the super league clubs I feel sorry for. 

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They also want their cake and eat it. They want to continue in the PL, where they are currently way ahead financially of the rest - while at the same time, alongside that, earn billions from the ESL. 
 

Greed on a massive scale with no thoughts for any other clubs or the structure of domestic football.

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