[Archived] What are the true costs of the protests?

[bob fleming]

I don't think the protests have cost us any points Will. I think the blame for that lies with the owners and the manager. The atmosphere has been terrible this season but that's largely been down to the fare that has been served up at Ewood. Five wins and one draw against eleven losses isn't going to get anyone in the mood for a good old sing song.

That against a backdrop of lies, half truths, manipulation and bull. No one likes to be taken for a fool, no one likes to be lied to. Most can see what's been going on and I'd suggest that most find it very difficult to support all that. Which will be demonstrated in the numbers of fans we have attending next season. Not that VenKean give a damn of course.

So the protests. The worst or best "protest" (depends on your view point) was undoubtedly against Bolton. And if memory serves me right there wasn't an organised protest at that match. It was spontaneous, people had had enough. Pretty much like it was on Saturday except I just sodded off and went to the pub. Which is what Kean would have preferred of course.

It'll be a bloody horrible atmosphere on Saturday. I'm not looking forward to it. That's not the fans fault though. If people can accept and support unconditionally then that's great, good on 'em. I wish I could in a way, I just can't accept what's going on. Don't get me wrong I'll not be running up and down and shoutng at the manager (it's not like it's a football match or anything), I'll go and support but it's kind of like going to a game but waiting for a car crash to occur. Put that on your CV Keano.

While I don't know the details one things for sure, what's happening just isn't right.

[Torgeir]

We were having a discussion on Saturday, whilst watching the Swansea match, as to how many points the protests have actually cost us?

Personally, i think without them we would have been well clear of the relegation zone, by about 8 points.

Just wondered what people's thoughts on this are, anyone feeling guilty?

0.

[Stuart]

I'd argue the atmosphere has been worse since the protests have stopped.

Might be a coincidence with a lot of supporters simply stopping going.

I certainly don't think the protests have caused a negative atmosphere inside the ground.

Ironically the atmosphere at the Bolton match was far and away the worst we've had and there were no protests at that match - yet support for the protests (and even criticism of) have worsened because of it.

[funny-old-game]

I think you've misunderstood me.

I wondered how many points it has cost. It is quite obvious that we have been poor all season long.

We have lost points purely and simply because of SHOCKINGLY BAD MANAGEMENT.

The Atmosphere at the ground is a consequence of this bad management and the fans have been brow beaten into submission and feel helpless as all their well founded concerns have fallen on deaf and suborn ears!

[dr_awol]

I would argue that the protests have maybe cost a few points.(i,m sure everyone can perform better in there workplace with positive atmosphere) and yes there are issues that have cost many more points this year.

[BigAlan]

The only reason the protests started was due to p1ss poor management at all levels. They continued because the club continued their p1ss poor management of the club. Nothing to do with the long suffering fans. How the hell do you get fired up and passionate when all you can see is the club you love being destroyed before your eyes knowing there is eff all you can do about it? And people wonder why the support has been quiet. Help

[DE.]

ffs, there was a protest before we played Arsenal and we won 4-3.

Conversely, the fans unanimously agreed to back the team for the WBA/Bolton matches in December and we played so pathetically in both that after Bolton's 2nd went in absolute hell broke loose.

The 'fan power' myth is total bollockss. 100%, grade A bullshit. When the owners are ripping the heart out of the club and the manager is setting up his increasingly poor team to lose each week no amount of "WE LOVE YOU ROVERS, WE DO" or "MORTEN GAMST PEDERSEN, TRA LA LA LA LA" is going to help.

[Miker]

While I agree that we won some games during protest days there were also a number of games where the players looked noticeably nervous and lacking confidence because they knew a mistake would get fans angry again.

I think the biggest issue about this season is that it has become too much about Kean. It's all about Kean. While the media focus on Kean "the victim" and Kean "the trier", the protesters have solely focused on Kean "the destroyer". Additionally, Kean has been massaging egos as much as possible by telling players "bad luck, we'll try again next week" and not getting them fired up for games.

That said, this problem wouldn't even need to be discussed if he was sacked ages ago.

[Mattyblue]

While I agree that we won some games during protest days there were also a number of games where the players looked noticeably nervous and lacking confidence because they knew a mistake would get fans angry again.

That's nothing to do with the orgainised protests, just a generally hostile crowd- ie Bolton at home, no protest was organised that fateful night.

Bottom of the league, 2-0 down to a relegation rival, ###### owners, ###### manager, that reaction would happen anyway.

[mark1875]

We were having a discussion on Saturday, whilst watching the Swansea match, as to how many points the protests have actually cost us?

Personally, i think without them we would have been well clear of the relegation zone, by about 8 points.

Just wondered what people's thoughts on this are, anyone feeling guilty?

Right let's have the 'reasoned debate' you are looking for, let's use facts to form opinions and think about it sensibly.

Home game record with protest:

Won- 3

Drawn 1

lost-4 (Must add that of these defeats it includes the 4 of the top 5)

Home game record with no protest:

won - 2

drawn - 0

lost - 7 (Must add this includes defeats against WOLVES, BOLTON, WBA, To name just 3)

More points and a better win ratio have been gained whilst protests have taken place, arguably against harder teams too.

No i am not saying for one minute protests have brought results before you try and spin the above, i am simply saying should this not dispel the myth that protests have brought about relegation.

from the 14 points dropped when protests have taken place, (games v spurs, chelsea, man city, newcastle and aston villa) you believe we would have picked up 11 points without protests to take us 8 pts clear?

[Miker]

That's nothing to do with the orgainised protests, just a generally hostile crowd- ie Bolton at home, no protest was organised that fateful night.

Bottom of the league, 2-0 down to a relegation rival, ###### owners, ###### manager, that reaction would happen anyway.

I disagree because the feeling you got with the organised protests is that the protesters were waiting for the team to fail, just so they could say "See Kean's no good!"

I wasn't even thinking of the Bolton game to be honest.

If you look at what happened after the Arsenal win and protests, you will see what I mean. Fans protested, we won and everyone started mocking the protesters. What happened then was the protest group got upset and came out and said "we will continue to protest because we don't want to be seen as fickle". But what message does that actually send out? Obviously if the team won again, the protests would continue to get mocked, so obviously the hope is then for the team to lose so a point could be proven. There's just no two ways about it.

Fact is, I agreed with the protests at the time... I did want Kean Out and I still want Kean Out. However, the overall feeling that was spread around the club was that we were doomed to failure with the current manager in charge, the players don't even have a say in it. In the end it just became a stand off between owners and fans in their support of Kean. And the entire squad of players was marginalised.

It didn't help that our team captain kept whining about wanting a move to "play with better players" and Phil Jones left at the first opportunity to do the same as well. If you look at the teams overachieving the most this season, they are all playing for each other. It's the difference between Norwich/Swansea and QPR as well.

And no, I don't think that the protests are the cause of all our problems. I think it is a symptom of other problems, but I think it has in turn also become a contributor to exacerbating those problems rather than fixing them.

It's one thing to indicate to players at half time or at the end of a match that they haven't been good enough and they need to improve, and it's another to just insinuate they are simply not good enough at all and we are going down, end of.

[DE.]

I disagree because the feeling you got with the organised protests is that the protesters were waiting for the team to fail, just so they could say "See Kean's no good!"

Waiting for the team to fail? They've failed since the day Kean took the job, nobody had to wait.

[Mattyblue]

You are missing the point Miker.

If the organised protest movement hadn't emerged there would still be fans booing, abusing players and shouting 'Kean out', it's what football crowds do.

[Athlete]

I disagree because the feeling you got with the organised protests is that the protesters were waiting for the team to fail, just so they could say "See Kean's no good!"

I wasn't even thinking of the Bolton game to be honest.

If you look at what happened after the Arsenal win and protests, you will see what I mean. Fans protested, we won and everyone started mocking the protesters. What happened then was the protest group got upset and came out and said "we will continue to protest because we don't want to be seen as fickle". But what message does that actually send out? Obviously if the team won again, the protests would continue to get mocked, so obviously the hope is then for the team to lose so a point could be proven. There's just no two ways about it.

Fact is, I agreed with the protests at the time... I did want Kean Out and I still want Kean Out. However, the overall feeling that was spread around the club was that we were doomed to failure with the current manager in charge, the players don't even have a say in it. In the end it just became a stand off between owners and fans in their support of Kean. And the entire squad of players was marginalised.

It didn't help that our team captain kept whining about wanting a move to "play with better players" and Phil Jones left at the first opportunity to do the same as well. If you look at the teams overachieving the most this season, they are all playing for each other. It's the difference between Norwich/Swansea and QPR as well.

And no, I don't think that the protests are the cause of all our problems. I think it is a symptom of other problems, but I think it has in turn also become a contributor to exacerbating those problems rather than fixing them.

It's one thing to indicate to players at half time or at the end of a match that they haven't been good enough and they need to improve, and it's another to just insinuate they are simply not good enough at all and we are going down, end of.

I take it you won't be protesting against the people who are ruining the club ie : Venkys + Kean

..yes Kean the man is up to his neck in it , the worst manager in the clubs history was given a massive pay rise after we'd won one game in 4 months ( WTF is that about ) oh BTW that one game was after a protest march so your argument doesnt hold up..you are talking garbage !

Waiting for the team to fail? They've failed since the day Kean took the job, nobody had to wait.

no one had to wait his record has spoken for it self since he was apointed..totally out his depth..

[rovertakenmb]

Can I ask a serious question to the OP? Do you have a shiny head? A driver? A bodyguard?

[Will]

Good to see people are finally thinking about what I asked rather than mocking the question. It was asked as a serious question rather than, as some think, something to get people's backs up. That wasn't my aim, why would it be, I'm as p****d off as the next man at the clubs position.

[ABBEY]

While I agree that we won some games during protest days there were also a number of games where the players looked noticeably nervous and lacking confidence because they knew a mistake would get fans angry again.

I think the biggest issue about this season is that it has become too much about Kean. It's all about Kean. While the media focus on Kean "the victim" and Kean "the trier", the protesters have solely focused on Kean "the destroyer". Additionally, Kean has been massaging egos as much as possible by telling players "bad luck, we'll try again next week" and not getting them fired up for games.

That said, this problem wouldn't even need to be discussed if he was sacked ages ago.

how does this equate to protesters fault? they have only been outside.

Good to see people are finally thinking about what I asked rather than mocking the question. It was asked as a serious question rather than, as some think, something to get people's backs up. That wasn't my aim, why would it be, I'm as p****d off as the next man at the clubs position.

how do get your sum and answer of 8 points will?

[jim mk2]

I've been saying for months now the only protest that gets action is one that involves a pitch invasion.

CORRECT !!

Well done for that but to repeat my previous post I don't think the mild protests so far have cost us points.

[Baz]

Right let's have the 'reasoned debate' you are looking for, let's use facts to form opinions and think about it sensibly.

Home game record with protest:

Won- 3

Drawn 1

lost-4 (Must add that of these defeats it includes the 4 of the top 5)

Home game record with no protest:

won - 2

drawn - 0

lost - 7 (Must add this includes defeats against WOLVES, BOLTON, WBA, To name just 3)

More points and a better win ratio have been gained whilst protests have taken place, arguably against harder teams too.

No i am not saying for one minute protests have brought results before you try and spin the above, i am simply saying should this not dispel the myth that protests have brought about relegation.

from the 14 points dropped when protests have taken place, (games v spurs, chelsea, man city, newcastle and aston villa) you believe we would have picked up 11 points without protests to take us 8 pts clear?

Will, you gonna answer this post or give us details of where you think the additional points would have come from?

Fact is there is no Way to measure it, the protests have happened and so have results. To say we'd be 8 points clear of relegation and to ask the protestors if they feel guilty is stupid

There are much bigger reasons that have affected games, such as manager, team, refereeing decisions, player buys, player sales etc...

[DE.]

Good to see people are finally thinking about what I asked rather than mocking the question. It was asked as a serious question rather than, as some think, something to get people's backs up. That wasn't my aim, why would it be, I'm as p****d off as the next man at the clubs position.

Personally, i think without them we would have been well clear of the relegation zone, by about 8 points.

Just wondered what people's thoughts on this are, anyone feeling guilty?

You're telling me this wasn't meant to get people's backs up? you still haven't told anyone where your magical 8 points come from either.

[Mattyblue]

'8 points, probably even more' was his response to me.

[Stuart]

You're telling me this wasn't meant to get people's backs up? you still haven't told anyone where your magical 8 points come from either.

Hang on, you're wrong.. he said "8 points clear of relegation".

Considering we currently lie 3 points from safety, that's an 11 point swing, not 8.

So, 3 wins and two draws. C'mon then Will which 5 defeats would have given us these results "had it not been for the protests".

It's a fair question.

[Gav]

Good to see people are finally thinking about what I asked rather than mocking the question. It was asked as a serious question rather than, as some think, something to get people's backs up. That wasn't my aim, why would it be, I'm as p****d off as the next man at the clubs position.

You've been lynched by the BRFCS posse Will

[JAL]

The true cost of the protests has to be in that they have failed to remove Stephen Kean so now we face relegation from the premier league so with that the cost must be about £44m plus per year.

[ABBEY]

The true cost of the protests has to be in that they have failed to remove Stephen Kean so now we face relegation from the premier league so with that the cost must be about £44m plus per year.

:glare: