[Archived] Venkys London Limited - Accounts

[Amo]

IMO, Philipl's concerns and views are very valid and no one should be sitting comfortably tonight.

Well, if you AND Philip say so...

IMO, the existance of our club rests almost entirely in the hands of Venky's and you can only form your own personal judgements on how that feels.

STOP THE PRESSES.

[Mercer]

Hang on

The 11m includes 6m income in advance ie not cash due, 5m bank loan which was paid off EARLY in May (due July).

My interpretation, and please bear in mind that I have no information on the nature of the item or the club's accounting policies to go off, is that shown that way as the income has not yet been 'earned' and therefore potentially repayable.

If it hadn't have been paid at that stage then cash at bank would have been £6m lighter (club would have been in overdraft situation) and net effect would be as reported in accounts.

Well, if you AND Philip say so...

STOP THE PRESSES.

Hey, this MB, as I keep saying, is about opinions.

If you are relaxed then fine, have another shandy.

[yoda]

My interpretation, and please bear in mind that I have no information on the nature of the item or the club's accounting policies to go off, is that shown that way as the income has not yet been 'earned' and therefore potentially repayable.

If it hadn't have been paid at that stage then cash at bank would have been £6m lighter (club would have been in overdraft situation) and net effect would be as reported in accounts.

Hey, this MB, as I keep saying, is about opinions.

If you are relaxed then fine, have another shandy.

Are you infering that what is reported in the accounts is not correct?

[Mercer]

Are you infering that what is reported in the accounts is not correct?

Not at all.

I believe that the accounting treatment is correct and merely tried to offer an explanation, in response to OJRovers' point, as to what the item might be and why it has been treated that way.

[yoda]

Not at all.

I believe that the accounting treatment is correct and merely tried to offer an explanation, in response to OJRovers' point, as to what the item might be and why it has been treated that way.

I don't understand, you say you belive this point is correct and yet other points are not correct, ongoing commitment etc, are you not cherry picking to suit your stance

[Amo]

Hey, this MB, as I keep saying, is about opinions.

It's not so much stating an opinion as it is stating the bleeding obvious.

[Mercer]

I don't understand, you say you belive this point is correct and yet other points are not correct, ongoing commitment etc, are you not cherry picking to suit your stance

Not cherry picking at all.

The comments under 'Going Concern' are:

"The amount of additional funding required will be dependent on the net proceeds of any player trading and availability of bank facilities. In view of this the directors have received confirmation from the ultimate parent company (Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt Ltd) that it has sufficient funds and is willing to provide such additional financing as may be required to fund the group to the extent necessary for the group to continue to trade and pay its liabilities as and when they become due, for the next 12 months and thereafter for the foreseeable future".

IMO, the key word is 'willing'. This does not appear to be a cross company guarantee and therefore not binding. Both circumstances and intentions can change - fans should be aware of that.

[RoverScot]

The current liabilities are already being funded through the new Bank of India overdraft hence why Blackburn Rovers is still a going concern and isn't going to be liquidated. The long term debt on the club has been cleared and any new long term debt being accumulated is not secured against the club because it can't be. The question is how long those facilities are going to remain for.

[yoda]

The current liabilities are already being funded through the new Bank of India overdraft hence why Blackburn Rovers is still a going concern and isn't going to be liquidated. The long term debt on the club has been cleared and any new long term debt being accumulated is not secured against the club because it can't be. The question is how long those facilities are going to remain for.

Only the venkys can answer that, they have been asked many times and given the same answer

[Kamy100]

The current liabilities are already being funded through the new Bank of India overdraft hence why Blackburn Rovers is still a going concern and isn't going to be liquidated. The long term debt on the club has been cleared and any new long term debt being accumulated is not secured against the club because it can't be. The question is how long those facilities are going to remain for.

While the debt is secured against Venky's India Assets (which is great), there is nothing stopping Venky's selling Rovers assets further down the line to service that debt.

No one knows what Venky's are thinking and how serious they are about the long term, we will get a big indication next season if we are still in the Championship.

[JAL]

Can we get one thing straight, these accounts do not show that Rovers are debt free as some posters seem to think.

The consolidated balance sheet shows:

• Net current liabilities of £11.5m (payable within 12 months) - anyone with any basic financial knowledge will realise that this position could be very critical
  
• Creditors falling due after more than 12 months of £3.5m
  
• Total debt is therefore £15.0m
  

Therefore, with revenue streams haemorrhaging since 31 March 2012, the only way the club can stay afloat is through additional bank facilities, further funding from the Raos or the sale of any remaining player assets we may have (Henley, Olsson1 & Rhodes) - which are broadly the comments made under 'Going Concern'.

IMO, Philipl's concerns and views are very valid and no one should be sitting comfortably tonight.

IMO, the existance of our club rests almost entirely in the hands of Venky's and you can only form your own personal judgements on how that feels.

Thanks for this Mercermen, all I can hope for from this is that Venkys are serious and do start selling their products here in the UK, and with this, they set up an UK HQ here in Blackburn, then i'd feel a little easier with the situation at Rovers.

[philipl]

Two questions to the posters above:

1) Venky's said they would put in £5m per window in net transfer contributions. Have you or have you not been lied to by £35m?

2) What debt do you think the 2012/13 accounts will show (despite the sell off of all our marketable players since they arrived)? Will it be nil, or £30m

[yoda]

Two questions to the posters above:

1) Venky's said they would put in £5m per window in net transfer contributions. Have you or have you not been lied to by £35m?

2) What debt do you think the 2012/13 accounts will show (despite the sell off of all our marketable players since they arrived)? Will it be nil, or £30m

Have we had 7 windows?

what do you think the debt will be, I think the venkys are going to cover it

[rovers_rob]

While the debt is secured against Venky's India Assets (which is great), there is nothing stopping Venky's selling Rovers assets further down the line to service that debt.

No one knows what Venky's are thinking and how serious they are about the long term, we will get a big indication next season if we are still in the Championship.

Exactly Kamy, no one knows but that doesn't stop phillipl from painting his own dark picture on everything does it ?

You can either take the accounts for what they are or you can rip them up and give your own spin on it.

Yes we are losing money because we got relegated and yes we don't know what is going to happen in the future but the current accounts are not as bad as what certain people who "mix in different circles" and are "of high standing" and "well respected in the business world" are making out.

Did you or anyone else expect to see these accounts 8 months ago ? When Paul Hunt was talking about administration, when other ITK's were talking about fire sales in the summer, when Phillipl basically said the club wouldn't even exist did you expect to see these accounts ??

Can you not understand why people are getting so fed up with all the spin that goes on here at times ? To many what if this what if that.. and all this "be afraid be very very afraid" stuff and calling people Rovers Fans ....FFS its patronising and ridiculous.

[Mercer]

Exactly Kamy, no one knows but that doesn't stop phillipl from painting his own dark picture on everything does it ?

You can either take the accounts for what they are or you can rip them up and give your own spin on it.

Yes we are losing money because we got relegated and yes we don't know what is going to happen in the future but the current accounts are not as bad as what certain people who "mix in different circles" and are "of high standing" and "well respected in the business world" are making out.

Did you or anyone else expect to see these accounts 8 months ago ? When Paul Hunt was talking about administration, when other ITK's were talking about fire sales in the summer, when Phillipl basically said the club wouldn't even exist did you expect to see these accounts ??

Can you not understand why people are getting so fed up with all the spin that goes on here at times ? To many what if this what if that.. and all this "be afraid be very very afraid" stuff and calling people Rovers Fans ....FFS its patronising and ridiculous.

The bottom line is, IMO, Rovers are no longer a 'going concern' and are virtually entirely reliant upon the goodwill and intentions of its owners to keep them afloat - that's what the accounts tell me.

That situation can only have deteriorated markedly given events post 31 March 2012.

Not spin but the cold, stark facts.

If that is not a dark picture then I don't know what is.

[dave birch]

The bottom line is, IMO, Rovers are no longer a 'going concern' and are virtually entirely reliant upon the goodwill and intentions of its owners to keep them afloat - that's what the accounts tell me.

Mercer, tell me what has changed, apropos the ownership , since the Trust flick passed the problem to the Venkys?

This "keeping afloat" problem has been there for a number of years, hasn't it?

[Mercer]

Mercer, tell me what has changed, apropos the ownership , since the Trust flick passed the problem to the Venkys?

This "keeping afloat" problem has been there for a number of years, hasn't it?

Firstly, we retained our PL status year in year out and more or less broke even financially, or at least we had the capacity to do. We were a respected, well organised, family/community orientated club, slowly developing and close to establishing ourselves as even a top 10 club with a thriving Academy, which had taken years to build-up, and we were beginning to enjoy the fruits of that.

We are now a Championship club that IMO, has had the heart, soul and competence ripped out of it at all levels. I think we are likely to be losing millions of pounds operationally and may be stirring into the abyss if we don't make a quick return to the PL.

Hmmm - what has changed !

[Parsonblue]

The bottom line is, IMO, Rovers are no longer a 'going concern' and are virtually entirely reliant upon the goodwill and intentions of its owners to keep them afloat - that's what the accounts tell me.

Nothing new there then. It has always been the case. We relied on Jack, we relied on the Walker Trust and now we are reliant on Venky's. Before Jack we simply made loss after loss and tried to get by on a shoestring. With our revenue streams - including gate money - we will always be reliant on the owners to fund the club. Somehow I can't envisage the Supporter's Trust coppering up to try to find £8 million to buy a player.

[Mercer]

Nothing new there then. It has always been the case. We relied on Jack, we relied on the Walker Trust and now we are reliant on Venky's. Before Jack we simply made loss after loss and tried to get by on a shoestring. With our revenue streams - including gate money - we will always be reliant on the owners to fund the club. Somehow I can't envisage the Supporter's Trust coppering up to try to find £8 million to buy a player.

Being a local lad and businessman, we knew of Jack's love for the club and the area and that he was in for the long run.

We didn't know too much about Venky's before they bought the club and let's face it, I don't think their first two years of ownership have gone either to their plan or to the supporters' plan. I think the next 12 months could tell us just how much they love the club and its community - I sincerely hope it proves to be a happy marriage !

[Exiled in Toronto]

Being a local lad and businessman, we knew of Jack's love for the club and the area and that he was in for the long run.

We didn't know too much about Venky's before they bought the club and let's face it, I don't think their first two years of ownership have gone either to their plan or to the supporters' plan. I think the next 12 months could tell us just how much they love the club and its community - I sincerely hope it proves to be a happy marriage !

We didn't know the Trust would sell us to a bunch of shysters either.

[rovers11]

Personally, I do think Venky's are here for the long term. They had the chance to cut and run a year ago when the arabs came calling and they also had the chance to do the same in the summer when the 2 Ian's were interested. Since then, they have invested a significant amount of money into the club which they are liable for, not Rovers. I suspect the thinking is that if/when the club is promoted they can recuperate a large proportion of that money back.

It's also important to remember that although they are losing significant amounts of money on Rovers, they are also making significant amounts of money on the back of being associated with Rovers.

Also, one huge reason why I don't believe they would ever see the club go bust is because of the massive damage that would do to the Venky's brand. Their expansion plans would be down the drain which in turn would lose them millions and millions of pounds.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Two questions to the posters above:

1) Venky's said they would put in £5m per window in net transfer contributions. Have you or have you not been lied to by £35m?

That's about the size of the lie that the club had engaged Rothschild's to oversee the sale to someone who would further Jack's wishes more than the Trust were able to, whereas in fact the job had been outsourced to Jerome Anderson to find anyone who would pony up the dosh.

I know which lie I'm more upset about

[Athlete]

While the debt is secured against Venky's India Assets (which is great), there is nothing stopping Venky's selling Rovers assets further down the line to service that debt.

No one knows what Venky's are thinking and how serious they are about the long term, we will get a big indication next season if we are still in the Championship.

no one can predict venkys next move but anyone who was at Ewood on saturday can see the club is dying a slow death despite a slight feel good factor with some fans over Berg

[Amo]

That's about the size of the lie that the club had engaged Rothschild's to oversee the sale to someone who would further Jack's wishes more than the Trust were able to, whereas in fact the job had been outsourced to Jerome Anderson to find anyone who would pony up the dosh.

I know which lie I'm more upset about

+++++++++++++++1

[m1st]

Personally, I do think Venky's are here for the long term. They had the chance to cut and run a year ago when the arabs came calling and they also had the chance to do the same in the summer when the 2 Ian's were interested. Since then, they have invested a significant amount of money into the club which they are liable for, not Rovers. I suspect the thinking is that if/when the club is promoted they can recuperate a large proportion of that money back.

It's also important to remember that although they are losing significant amounts of money on Rovers, they are also making significant amounts of money on the back of being associated with Rovers.

Also, one huge reason why I don't believe they would ever see the club go bust is because of the massive damage that would do to the Venky's brand. Their expansion plans would be down the drain which in turn would lose them millions and millions of pounds.

Writing as one who's temporarily in New Delhi, it's not got us any publicity this weekend. There was nowt about us [nor, to be fair, any non-Premier League game] in today's "Hindustan Times"!

"Thank goodness for this Message Board", say I!