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Just as an aside when it was 3-0 and the ashes lost why didn't we just come home? Nowt to be gained by staying there except a few bobsworth of gate money and we don't need it that much do we?

The Aussies would love that - we'd never live it down. I presume not completing a test series would also incur sanctions.

We have to take it on the chin, I'm afraid. Much like football at the moment. Suck it up. If it's to be a whitewash so be it.

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Course we do!  Only country ever to win a football, rugby union and cricket World Cup. We are an elite nation in loads of women’s sports. We are only usually only behind giants like USA

I'm glad I stayed up for that, almost went to bed an hour and a half or so ago. 3.15 am here

Well played India - a brilliant effort. Never expected that. It's always gratifying to see the convicts lose at any sport - especially on their own middin

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I am absolutely delighted for Chris Rogers, my brother played cricket with him about 20 years ago now for North Devon and he is a smashing bloke. He is a cricketer I really admire played minor counties and went around the doldrums of county cricket playing for Northants, Leicestershire, Derby and then he got the Middlesex captaincy making lots of runs at all those counties, then Victoria wanted to get rid of him and he just hung on there and now luck at him. He has been a gritty and determined player all of his career at 36 he is now getting the reward that he deserves. The England players like Pietersen, Cook and Bell who have more natural talent than Rogers could learn a lot from him how he is always working on his and the pride he places on his wicket.

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Not much has been said about Kallis retiring, with Sobers as the greatest allroundersd to ever play the game. I am thankful he will not be there when Australia goes on tour.

It seems such a common place that when bowlers work on and concentrate on reverse swing it appears to mess with their proper bowling action i.e Anderson. After Australia lost the Ashes in England it was noticable Australia went to try and bowl reverse swing as part of their game and I think they suffered. It seems reverse swing is a "gift" to a bowler that they can achieve through their natural bowling action i.e Akram, Flintoff and Younis and not something that everyone can pick up.

I think this is the reason for Anderson's decline, going from the world best outswing bowler to stump to stump cherries

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Good player Kallis, but never had the ability to excite like Botham who in his pomp was the best I've seen.

Anderson was bending the ball both ways only last summer. He'll come again.

I am absolutely delighted for Chris Rogers, my brother played cricket with him about 20 years ago now for North Devon and he is a smashing bloke. He is a cricketer I really admire played minor counties and went around the doldrums of county cricket playing for Northants, Leicestershire, Derby and then he got the Middlesex captaincy making lots of runs at all those counties, then Victoria wanted to get rid of him and he just hung on there and now luck at him. He has been a gritty and determined player all of his career at 36 he is now getting the reward that he deserves. The England players like Pietersen, Cook and Bell who have more natural talent than Rogers could learn a lot from him how he is always working on his and the pride he places on his wicket.

Rogers seems to be a popular player even among the England players but why would you want someone to do well against England unless you are a rock cruncher (which you've never denied) ? I know the Root family and want him to do well for Yorkshire but never against Lancashire.

You're way off with your criticism of Cook and Bell too. Cook had to work hard at his technique after problems early in his career and Bell too has worked hard to improve after his temperament was questioned.

I'll tell you what Ned Kelly: how about praising Cook for becoming the youngest player to make 8000 Test runs, beating even the likes of Tendulkar ? Go on, you can do it - even though he plays for your enemy England.

.

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Not much has been said about Kallis retiring, with Sobers as the greatest allroundersd to ever play the game. I am thankful he will not be there when Australia goes on tour.

Kallis for me is the greatest all-rounder of all time, his stats are absolutely phenomenal. He is one of the greatest test match players of all time and he is easily the best players of his era.

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Well said Ned, ignoring the fact one of the greatest all-rounders played for "your" county.

Stats don't tell the whole story. I played cricket to a reasonable level and I'm not easily impressed by professional cricketers. The test of a player for me is whether i would pay good money to watch them and I wouldn't pay to watch Kallis. I would however pay to watch Botham who always emptied the bars at cricket grounds whenever he came in to bat. We used to down tools at work to watch him on TV in his pomp because he was compulsive viewing. There haven't been many players in my lifetime of whom you could say the same.

Now take back what you said about Cook and Bell and praise Cook for his 8,000 runs achievement.

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Well said Ned, ignoring the fact one of the greatest all-rounders played for "your" county.

Stats don't tell the whole story. I played cricket to a reasonable level and I'm not easily impressed by professional cricketers. The test of a player for me is whether i would pay good money to watch them and I wouldn't pay to watch Kallis. I would however pay to watch Botham who always emptied the bars at cricket grounds whenever he came in to bat. We used to down tools at work to watch him on TV in his pomp because he was compulsive viewing. There haven't been many players in my lifetime of whom you could say the same.

Kallis test average 55 with bat compared to Botham's 33, so as batsmen Kallis was two leagues above Botham. With the ball Botham 28 to Kallis 32 so not really a lot in it, especially when you consider that Botham was a front line bowler whereas Kallis was a reluctant 5th bowler. And to quote a true England and cricketing great Harold Larwood Botham was 'over-rated and his bowling wouldn't burst a paper bag.' Hard to disagree with a the man who for me is second to only Sydney Barnes as England's greatest bowler of all time.

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Kallis test average 55 with bat compared to Botham's 33, so as batsmen Kallis was two leagues above Botham. With the ball Botham 28 to Kallis 32 so not really a lot in it, especially when you consider that Botham was a front line bowler whereas Kallis was a reluctant 5th bowler. And to quote a true England and cricketing great Harold Larwood Botham was 'over-rated and his bowling wouldn't burst a paper bag.' Hard to disagree with a the man who for me is second to only Sydney Barnes as England's greatest bowler of all time.

Well Ned, Botham's batting role at No 6 was different from that of Kallis who batted at No 3. Botham was one of the exciting hitters of a cricket ball in the history of the game.Who will ever forget the way he single-handedly destroyed the Australian bowling in 1981, but I expect that sticks in your antipodean craw. Botham's bowling was miles better than that of Kallis. His 8-34 against India was a masterclass in the art of swing. As for Larwood and Barnes, they weren't a patch on the greatest fast bowler of them all, Frank Tyson, a Lancashire lad from Bolton.

Now how about complimenting a current England player on becoming the youngest player to make 8,000 runs in Tests ?

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Cook is a wonderful opener but I would have Sehwag, Smith, Hayden and Haynes anyday of the week.

Botham was extremely exciting to watch and on his day one of the best but Kallis record is second to none as an allrounder.

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Kallis for me is the greatest all-rounder of all time, his stats are absolutely phenomenal. He is one of the greatest test match players of all time and he is easily the best players of his era.

Doesn't Gary sobers get a look in in this debate? He was quite good wasn't he?
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Im still gutted that Kallis has retired now and not after the next series.

Don, as far as I can see, Kallis has only performed with the bat.

He averages 40.36 with a high score of 147 and 5 tons.

Bowling is average at best 50 wickets at 37.56.

This is V Australia only.

Having said that, I do like him as a cricketer and as a human being. There are some great stories doing the rounds about him and his charity work.

Edited by dave birch
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Doesn't Gary sobers get a look in in this debate? He was quite good wasn't he?

tbh, Barry Richards would have been right up there, had it not been for the dark days over here. I would say that Richards would have been close to Bradman and Sobers easily. also Botham like that Aussie with the stupid moustache(sp) cant get to his name now lol, were more out there to entertain the crowd, and the crowd enjoyed that. Kallis on the other hand just got on with what he needed to do, which makes people look at him as boring

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Don, as far as I can see, Kallis has only performed with the bat.

He averages 40.36 with a high score of 147 and 5 tons.

Bowling is average at best 50 wickets at 37.56.

This is V Australia only.

Having said that, I do like him as a cricketer and as a human being. There are some great stories doing the rounds about him and his charity work.

Thats probably a better average than any England player in this series.

Hopefully Steyn will wreak havoc.

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Don, what on earth has Lehmann done to deserve your ire?

He's been the Aussie coach for a whole nine? tests.

He's brought a contest to the ashes, even in the 3-0 in England (where it was a lot closer than the 3-0 would suggest).

Not the most brilliant of test cricketers, but one with a passion for the game, and so far, one that has united a fractured change room and got a team winning again.

If he were the coach of any team that was down, be it England, India, SA, Sri Lanka, hell, even NZ, I'd be pleased for him and them, because it increases the level of competition and makes the whole spectacle better.

He's a blokes bloke, if you get my meaning. You could meet him in a bar and have a chat over a beer and he'd make you feel like his mate; just like McGrath, or Gilchrist or Marsh or Botham or Dwight Yorke (I mention him, cause the wife's cousin met him in a Sydney bar and said he was a fantastic guy).

Sport (in general) needs guys that the ordinary Joe Blow can relate and talk to.

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Don, having been in Sri Lanka recently, they were and still are more concerned about Gilchrist's "half squash ball in the glove" incident.

Do we need to talk about the flak Ponting got in England? Or Warne? They both copped it big time, from the crowds, the opposition and the scum press over there.

As said before Don, swings and roundabouts.

When it's one sided, I'll agree with you, but it's not.

btw, Happy New Year (seriously)

Edited by dave birch
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tbh, Barry Richards would have been right up there, had it not been for the dark days over here. I would say that Richards would have been close to Bradman and Sobers easily. also Botham like that Aussie with the stupid moustache(sp) cant get to his name now lol, were more out there to entertain the crowd, and the crowd enjoyed that. Kallis on the other hand just got on with what he needed to do, which makes people look at him as boring

Nobody as boring as Boycott! Not an all rounder but just what is needed for a test match opener. Stubborn as a mule in defending his wicket and working the bowlers to soften em up for the rest of the batsman. (Unfortunatelt that stubborness saw him waste many years in the wilderness and denied him a batting record to top them all) Bowling at Sir Geoffrey in his pomp would have been like bowling at the back yard door! He should have been born this side of the pennines mind.
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