The Relegation Thread

[Amo]

Did anyone have a bet on us to go down? (Just to clarify I mean from this board, not far flung betting syndicates).

Thought I had, but nope.

I am riding on Leicester going down, though. Surprised I only got 17/1 at the start of the season... I guess everyone else had the same idea.

[jw_]

Precisely- deliberate sabotage.

Neil Warnock had been appointed all but sending him the contract and Cheston was over-ruled and the Agent's man turned up.

Coyle's track record is abysmal yet he has not been sacked.

This is deliberate sabotage.

Just look at the most recent posts on the Brum game and the people saying "I don't understand why Coyle settled for a point against a beatable Birmingham and dropped us further into relegation trouble."

Anyway no logical arguments yet that we are not being sabotaged.

So you come out with a clear statement that we have to get relegated and leave it floating in the air but when questioned you turn it into "lets flip this around" and then claim its obvious sabotage and expect people to come up with reasons why it is not sabotage. As if things are not bad enough at Rovers and the range of emotions that have raged for years on this board you are only adding to the misery with statements like that. I know people respect you but with comments like that they'll soon lose respect.

[tomphil]

Did anyone have a bet on us to go down? (Just to clarify I mean from this board, not far flung betting syndicates).

Yep not really a betting man and certainly not on football but i was so brassed off in summer and so convinced we would i staked a few quid on it. Also 8-1 for us to finish rock bottom, maybe that won't happen but the rest you could see it coming a mile off and all things considered the season is panning out just as quite a few expected it would.

Anybody advising any owners or people running clubs would have said that would be the case. Strange that, i suppose the poor confused fools still aren't listening eh !

Then again........

[Waggy76]

Jb got about 100/1 on consecutive relegations this season and next

Be interesting to see what the price is tonight ?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

If this is a deliberate decision there has to be a reason behind it.

I'm not saying there isn't I just need convincing that there is a creditable reason that there is.

Consistently appointing bad managers is potentially deliberate but show me what benefits Venky's in finding new ways to lose money and continually drag us down the league chain?

[oldjamfan1]

Neil Warnock had been appointed all but sending him the contract and Cheston was over-ruled and the Agent's man turned up.

Philip - I agree in so far as something very iffy happened with the Coyle appointment (I wrote to the club to protest at the time) but I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is that Cheston's preferred man was actually Warren Joyce, not Warnock.

[JHRover]

Philip - I agree in so far as something very iffy happened with the Coyle appointment (I wrote to the club to protest at the time) but I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is that Cheston's preferred man was actually Warren Joyce, not Warnock.

The story I heard was that Warnock held a series of interviews with Cheston and Pasha, was on the same page as them, had verbally agreed to take the job with a budget in place and with Blackwell and Jepson set to come in to assist him, it was virtually ready to be announced to the media (hence the headline on Sky Sports News), before he got a call at the 11th hour telling him that the deal was off as they had found someone else to do the job.

That man turned out to be Owen Coyle.And he was then appointed the following week.

One thing worth bearing in mind was Coyle's exit from Houston which was announced on 26th May. Coyle was appointed Rovers boss on 2nd June. Now those two things could be completely unrelated. It might genuinely be the case that Coyle was homesick and wanted to move back to the UK after a couple of years in the USA, and he's got a good agent who can land him a Championship job (which most people don't think he should have got on the basis of his recent record) and that he was out of work for barely a week before being paraded around Brockhall as the 'outstanding candidate' despite having never been mentioned in the weeks and months prior to that when people like Joyce, Warnock, Slade, Redfearn etc. had all been linked.

The cynic in me thinks that there's a lot more to it than Coyle having the good fortune to conveniently become available at the perfect time by leaving Houston and just so happening to walk into the Rovers job.

Perhaps the powers that be behind the scenes weren't keen on Warnock coming in and doing things 'his way' with complete control and wanted an ally in place. Perhaps the drawn out managerial search was deliberately dragged out over several months so as to ensure Coyle could occupy it once he'd sorted out business in Houston.

Whatever the truth, I'm inclined to believe that he got the job for non-footballing reasons. Even if the powers that be were taken in by his verbal diarrhoea like so many seem to have been, and honestly believed he was the best man for the job at that time, he's since proved without doubt that he is incapable and that relegation is a certainty on his watch. Why they refuse to act and make a change now just leads to more suspicion about the nature of his position.

Edited January 23, 2017 by JHRover

[oldjamfan1]

JH Rover - no arguments about Coyle and how/why he was appointed, but I have it on fairly good authority that - although Warnock was interviewed - Joyce was going to be offered the job. Regardless of what 'Colin' might have leaked to his buddies at SSN.

[1arC]

10/3 at the start of the season

You were robbed, I got 5/1 on Sky Bet.

[rog of the rovers]

I got on 4/1 at Paddy Power. Only a tenner, but felt it was a sound bet.

Setting up an account and spending £10 gave me £30 in free bets.

Put £10 (of the free bet cash) on Danny Graham to finish Top Goalscorer in the Championship (e/w) so basically to finish top 4. at 50/1

Currently 6th with 11 goals.

Edited January 23, 2017 by rog of the rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I would never back against us although I thought relegation was a certainty in August and I was severely tempted as the winning dosh would soften the blow a little bit.

I can't see Leicester going down, too many really bad sides in the Prem - Hull, Sunderland, Boro etc. It was a great time for the Dingles to get promoted !

Edited January 23, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[philipl]

I think the Joyce story is a spoiler/cover.

Warnock got tapped up at Rotherham by Rovers who were doing things on the cheap. He resigned there to avoid compensation to the Millers and took on trust he was going to Rovers after a decent interval. Cheston going on holiday when Warnock was due to sign was additional cover to it not being a tap up but it proved a very helpful window to pull off the coup by the tantric one.

B seems to have been sold a repeat of the Kean relegation scam so Warnock was instantly history and Rovers with him. Same people behind the scenes, same sort of contract at half the price, same deal for lower division performance, same collusive team picking, same sorts of dodgy telephone numbers and reward structure apparently...

Only Coye is much more successful at not being hated in the way Kean was so is proving more useful. Senior brought in to muddle the water when Coyle began to face supporter pressure.

As is being rightly pointed out, my credibility is negligible and nobody should treat any of this rubbish I have shared here seriously.

[RevidgeBlue]

There's no great conspiracy. Kean was infinitely cheaper than Allardyce and Coyle is presumably prepared to do it a lot cheaper than Warnock would have been.

The owners never learn it seems. However as has been correctly pointed out there's no benefit whatsoever to anyone in us doing badly, even if you subscribe to the theory we're deliberately being run for the benefit of agents.

[Salgado Is Still A Hero]

You were robbed, I got 5/1 on Sky Bet.

I also did it on a treble that includes Burnley going down so I'm not even going to win anything.

[philipl]

There's no great conspiracy. Kean was infinitely cheaper than Allardyce and Coyle is presumably prepared to do it a lot cheaper than Warnock would have been.

The owners never learn it seems. However as has been correctly pointed out there's no benefit whatsoever to anyone in us doing badly, even if you subscribe to the theory we're deliberately being run for the benefit of agents.

Kean's contract is in the public domain for all to see- he was on double Allardyce's pay when you add it all up. Only Ferguson and Mourinho were paid better at that time.

[tomphil]

There's no great conspiracy. Kean was infinitely cheaper than Allardyce and Coyle is presumably prepared to do it a lot cheaper than Warnock would have been.

The owners never learn it seems. However as has been correctly pointed out there's no benefit whatsoever to anyone in us doing badly, even if you subscribe to the theory we're deliberately being run for the benefit of agents.

There you go again with your veiled defense of Venkys and the badly advised line.

Kean cheaper than Allardyce ????????????

6 whole years and you still believe it's all down to a bit of bad advise, get some new coffee Revster

[DE.]

The reason Kean was in situ was so that Anderson could get his own clients in with absolutely no resistance from the manager. This motive is so well established by this point that I can't believe anybody would suggest otherwise.

[Athlete]

There's no great conspiracy. Kean was infinitely cheaper than Allardyce and Coyle is presumably prepared to do it a lot cheaper than Warnock would have been.

The owners never learn it seems. However as has been correctly pointed out there's no benefit whatsoever to anyone in us doing badly, even if you subscribe to the theory we're deliberately being run for the benefit of agents.

You do not actually believe that surely.. For starters kean was one of the highest paid in the prem

[philipl]

The reason Kean was in situ was so that Anderson could get his own clients in with absolutely no resistance from the manager. This motive is so well established by this point that I can't believe anybody would suggest otherwise.

That is just the totally indisputable visible bit.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That is just the totally indisputable visible bit.

Are we talking facts here Phillip or " alternative " facts ?

[jim mk2]

Kean's contract is in the public domain for all to see- he was on double Allardyce's pay when you add it all up. Only Ferguson and Mourinho were paid better at that time.

Staggering really....rookie manager who'd done nothing to justify that sort of money. Staggering also that Venky's were so innocent as to sanction his wages, presumably at the recommendation of the dastardly agents. It is possible (briefly) to feel sorry for the Indians because of their naivety but their arrogance and incompetence over 6 years soon banishes those thoughts

[JBiz]

There's no great conspiracy. Kean was infinitely cheaper than Allardyce and Coyle is presumably prepared to do it a lot cheaper than Warnock would have been.

The owners never learn it seems. However as has been correctly pointed out there's no benefit whatsoever to anyone in us doing badly, even if you subscribe to the theory we're deliberately being run for the benefit of agents.

Subscribing to the final part is a necessary part of seeing the whole real reason for our purchase IMO. A vehicle to move players around, sign up new talent and plant players who they had vested interest in - Formica/Rochina are both pretty much obvious examples.

I still don't think it's fully stopped either. I did believe that under GB, things changed to a system where the manager had full autonomy on deals, as Kean was complicit in the scam from the beginning imo - therefore would do as told. Why else would he have started Edinho Junior et al.

The void between the owners and decision making still lends itself to agents getting involved to make a buck - there is no way that Coyle would've got the job without someone getting in the Raos ear. I believe now though, that they get advice from a more trusted (in their eyes, i.e. Indian) source. Problem is, the name we've heard is Suhail Pasha... funnily enough has links to the same original agents involved.

The real story will probably never fully come out, but whilst taking into this summary of my perception into account - I still can't get my head round a deliberate relegation.

The only real thing that could make sense is just the vindictive deliberate idea coined by someone. Even that goes against the probability that Venkys likely don't even know what is actually going on, through the deliberate ignorance and infinite stupidity.

[tomphil]

The deliberate leaning towards relegation would likely come from those doing the button pushing of the V's as they stand to continue making % from more ins and outs.

From Vs point it's probably more of a don't really care either way maybe after being advised that if relegation did occur it gives them the opportunity to drive cutbacks across the board. Strip it right back to build it up again in a much cheaper, leaner and easier manageable version.

They seem happy to absorb certain losses through the books and it probably suits them that way so they are not arsed. They may even be using Rovers to filter off a few quid from the main corporation and into some offshore account as an unofficial divi or pension without scrutiny pot from shareholders or something.

Edited January 23, 2017 by tomphil

[philipl]

OK we have several message board members claiming they will make tidy sums of money off the bookies when Rovers go down.

Put five or six noughts after the figures you have all mentioned, spread it around the illegal gambling dens of Asia, then make sure relegation happens with plenty of sides on unusual things happening during games on the way down.

Are you still worried about VLL losing £20m this season?

Anyone got a better legal explanation for what is happening?

I happily say that I would far far rather believe that everything is legitimate and above board.

[tomphil]

I suppose it's not a bad way to increase your personal wealth whilst having a bit of fun along the way. Your major shareholders in a corporation that can lose heavily losses of one of it's franchises in it's accounts quite easily and to it's benefit.

Meanwhile you amuse yourselves and fill your own back pockets via percentages from player trading etc and playing at spread betting on this crap team you co own who are nailed on to lose more than they ever win. No need to get rid it's a fun toy for the wealthy with nowt better to do. The company props it up and it causes no major financial bother so the other shareholders don't care.

Lets just look again at the odds of every manager these lot have appointed .......