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9 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

For pensioners it's massive, currently your pension is exactly the same as the UK pension and is index linked, but if you retire to a non-EU country your pension is frozen at the rate you are paid when you left the country. - So retire to Spain and get gradually poorer.

Also Reciprocal health care - If that ends with no deal then you are looking at massive health insurance costs

https://www.moneyobserver.com/our-analysis/how-will-brexit-affect-expats

 

Sure, but anyone living in the EU has become approximately 30% poorer anyway during the last few years due to the now terrible pound-euro exchange rate.

I remember going on holiday in 2002 and it was more or less 1.5e to the pound (then it started falling, LONG BEFORE BREXIT).

I can see the health care costs being a big problem, but essentially this also shows the problems of being in the EU. If it was up to Spain I'm sure they would make their own favourable deal with the UK regarding these things - as it is, they will be bound to what their masters in Germany/Brussels tell them.

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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30% and a frozen pension will bite hard. If you don't have residency, then your right to stay may well be compromised as well, there are loads of Brits on the continent that don't have residency, but still own property - They are looking at 180 day or 90 day stay limits depending on how things pan out, plus all kinds of issues regarding property ownership, plus if the worst happens then a property price crash in the main Brit expat haunts could be a financial disaster for them.

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In Tenerife at the mo. We were talking to a Preston couple last night. They are retired, they own an apartment here, they spend approx  6 months of the year out here yet they both want to “get out” of the EU. They live in the new hall lane area of Preston. Any ideas what they base their views on?

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Den- if it’s New Hall Lane then it’s fairly obvious. If you see them again you might ask them how leaving the EU will have any effect on immigration from elsewhere in the world. On current plans it will only have to increase to fill the shortfall, and especially if we want any trade deals with South Asia.

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Yes, it was obvious. 

Brexit was built on these kind of discriminations. You’re right as well, leaving the EU doesn’t address their concerns but they very likely take little notice of the brexit debate. How do you change people’s opinions when they only see one thing and don’t even try to understand what leaving the EU actually means?

it should never have gone to a public vote.

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4 minutes ago, den said:

Yes, it was obvious. 

Brexit was built on these kind of discriminations. You’re right as well, leaving the EU doesn’t address their concerns but they very likely take little notice of the brexit debate. How do you change people’s opinions when they only see one thing and don’t even try to understand what leaving the EU actually means?

it should never have gone to a public vote.

For which we can blame Cameron. Born to rule, but puts party before country.

Promised a referendum 2 years on to quieten his Brexit nutters, expecting to win, but never has a positive word to say about the EU so as not to antagonise the enemy within. Then runs the worst campaign in living memory (until May's great effort).

Now coasting along on his and his wife's fortunes while Britain heads for disaster.

And don't get me started on Austerity!

Gosh I feel better after that!

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23 hours ago, Husky said:

 

I can see the health care costs being a big problem, but essentially this also shows the problems of being in the EU. If it was up to Spain I'm sure they would make their own favourable deal with the UK regarding these things - as it is, they will be bound to what their masters in Germany/Brussels tell them.

I see health care will be a problem for the individual but not for the UK state. Obviously UK citizens have every right to return to the UK and access the NHS but if living abroad they may well have to return home to join the same queues as the rest of us, or fly in and out. As I see it if one choses to live outside the UK one has to pay local health care rates. Obviously Den's new Preston friends didn't consider this when they voted out. Now it's time for them to take the medicine they voted for. No sympathy from me for anyone who voted out.

This isn't a problem of being IN the EU, it's a problem of being OUT!

If Spain has any sense it won't make a deal with the UK in these areas. There are 100,000 Spaniards in the UK most of whom are likely to be young, working and paying taxes. 300,000 British citizens live in Spain, most are likely to be retired, paying little or no tax etc. Why would Spain want to take on an ageing, migrant population from a country that voted to leave the EU largely based on voter's desire to get rid of migrants?

Edited by Paul
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1 hour ago, den said:

It should never have gone to a public vote.

Correct. This was always a question for Parliament and MPs. Other than the vote for leave what sticks most in my gullet is the total and abject failure of our politicians to do their jobs.

I, as we all should, vote for the candidate who will represent my best interests in Parliament. This is an MP's mandate, to date everyone of them has spectacularly failed in this duty.

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2 hours ago, Paul said:

Correct. This was always a question for Parliament and MPs. Other than the vote for leave what sticks most in my gullet is the total and abject failure of our politicians to do their jobs.

I, as we all should, vote for the candidate who will represent my best interests in Parliament. This is an MP's mandate, to date everyone of them has spectacularly failed in this duty.

The majority of MP’s know in their own mind that leaving the EU is going to cause great damage. They knew that before the referendum because the majority voted to remain. They certainly know it now as every piece of evidence reveals itself, but bar a handful, they hide. 

Labours position on this is every bit as bad as the Tories. What they should be searching for is a jobs first remain - not a jobs first brexit. 

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Thanks to Brexit, construction of new housing may well slow to a halt (it's already only rumbling along) as construction companies struggle to recruit.

I worry where it may leave me and my fiancée. Living with her folk if necessary, I guess.

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On 06/10/2018 at 14:29, Paul said:

I see health care will be a problem for the individual but not for the UK state. Obviously UK citizens have every right to return to the UK and access the NHS but if living abroad they may well have to return home to join the same queues as the rest of us, or fly in and out. As I see it if one choses to live outside the UK one has to pay local health care rates. Obviously Den's new Preston friends didn't consider this when they voted out. Now it's time for them to take the medicine they voted for. No sympathy from me for anyone who voted out.

This isn't a problem of being IN the EU, it's a problem of being OUT!

If Spain has any sense it won't make a deal with the UK in these areas. There are 100,000 Spaniards in the UK most of whom are likely to be young, working and paying taxes. 300,000 British citizens live in Spain, most are likely to be retired, paying little or no tax etc. Why would Spain want to take on an ageing, migrant population from a country that voted to leave the EU largely based on voter's desire to get rid of migrants?

I believe that the costs of private healthcare in Spain is very high, and the fly back to the UK thing will only work if they are well enough to do so. If they need emergency care, they are going to find themselves with massive bills.

I also believe that the 300k figure is an underestimate too, there are an awful lot of people with property out in Spain who haven't registered, so they don't pay the local taxes.

Any of them who voted for Brexit deserve the repercussions, but I'm sure many didn't. I'd imagine if there is a no deal Brexit, many will have to return to the UK.

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The ultimate Brexit irony.

Government wants to change its mind on the 15 page agreement it signed with the EU last December including the Irish backstop.

"We didn't read it" seems to be the favourite excuse.

Yet the public is not allowed to reconsider a referendum which:

- was an aberration in relation to 45 years of pro-EU opinion polling before and since

- was won with the help of Russian and Iranian trolling and enormous bot operation on the day of the vote and day before https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/17/vast-archive-of-tweets-reveals-work-of-trolls-backed-by-russia-and-iran?CMP=share_btn_tw

- was won by illegal means as has been adjudicated by the Electoral Commission

- was won with these statements- none of which Government has the slightest intention of delivering on:

image.thumb.png.098f2df6b91926aaddf3411f7ee63faf.png

 

Edited by philipl
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Little by little Brexiters are draining away.

Amongst those with an opinion, it is now 60-40 remain.

 

Try this little exercise if you are still a Brexiter.

Say to yourself:

I want to get rid of MY human rights because of Brexit

I want to end MY freedom of movement because of Brexit

I want to pay a Visa fee and queue for hours on end to go to France because of Brexit

I want myself and my family to be poorer and at risk of losing our jobs and have smaller pensions because of Brexit

 

Still a Brexiter?- it was ok doing it to others wasn't it but Brexit does it to you, yes YOU personally. 

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Hearing May these last few days, she is just taking the piss. Making it up as she goes along.

Deliberately attended that meeting last night with nothing new to say, when they were looking for a solution to the Irish problem.

My only theory that makes sense is that she is stalling for time for 2 reasons:

1) As long as she does nothing she won't be chucked out. Prolonging her Premiership has become an end in itself.

2) As time runs out she hopes more people will reluctantly back her plan ( whatever it is) in preference to crashing out without a deal. She figures she'll be regarded as a heroine (right all along, stood up to her foes in Europe and in her own party) and stay on as PM.

The only other theory that holds up is that she has no idea what she is doing at all.

 

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I spend a week or 2 ignoring anything Brexit, then do a catch up.

My overarching feelings each time I do this is what a complete mess Britain is in.

At minimum a second referendum is needed. It was ill thought out, and the current state of play offers no light at the end of the tunnel. 

Truly shocking.

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May has only one agenda - to keep kicking the Brexit can down the road so that the Tories stay in power until the 2022 election.  The Conservatives fear Corbyn more than they do a no-deal Brexit, and their over-arching aim is to remain in Downing Street while the Brexit storm passes. The coming Brexit debacle will consequently be blamed on Brussels by the Tories' friends in the right leaning media. 

Edited by jim mk2
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It could be May last week as PM with Davis and Johnson to replace her as PM and Deputy PM. The talks for us to leave Brexit has been a miss. I wouldnt be paying any leaving fee either. Tell the EU no. Its our money.

No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

We can have our own trade deals with USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, China. We dont need the EU for this. Really hope we dont agree to any silly deals were the EU can blocked us from making these days. 

I.dont want to another vote. But understand why some do. 

No other party is ready to lead talks and Corbyn or his party shouldnt be near these talks.

Just been reading that Corbyn voted against a tax breaks for low paid workers. The Labour leader has failed to back moves raising the amount employees start to pay tax - which currently stands at £11,850. Corbyn voted against these measures over the past eight years which have saved basic ratepayers £5,634 since 2011. Thought they look out for low paid workers?

 

Edited by chaddyrovers
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  • Moderation Lead

Googled that last part because it sounded like bolllocks and it looks like you read it in The Sun as it wasn’t reported anywhere else. I can see why you believe it, to be fair, that publication obviously has absolutely no previous for telling lies.....

Edited by K-Hod
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9 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Googled that last part because it sounded like bolllocks and it looks like you read it in The Sun as it wasn’t reported anywhere else. I can see why you believe it, to be fair, that publication obviously has absolutely no previous for telling lies.....

Here is Corbyn voting record on the issue

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=6680

 

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Would you be happy to leave with no deal Chaddy - because that is a possibility at the moment?

plus..... there is no fee for leaving. Any money we do pay upon leaving is for the contracts/commitments we have signed up to. 

 

Brexit could kill off entire industries says Jaguar Landrover chief.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/21/brexit-industries-ralf-speth-jaguar-land-rover-cbi-survey

Edited by den
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58 minutes ago, den said:

Would you be happy to leave with no deal Chaddy - because that is a possibility at the moment?

plus..... there is no fee for leaving. Any money we do pay upon leaving is for the contracts/commitments we have signed up to. 

 

Brexit could kill off entire industries says Jaguar Landrover chief.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/21/brexit-industries-ralf-speth-jaguar-land-rover-cbi-survey

clearly we need a sensible deal with the EU but some of the things I've heard are ridiculous like needing a visa to travel to France or wall between Ireland and Northern Ireland or having to pay a fee for entering another EU country

some businesses keep saying they wouldn't lose jobs and would grow and vice versa. TBH, I don't who or what to believe at times. 

 

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