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The 'just in time' supply lines relate to food also. The fresh produce from Europe relies on check-free borders.  We get 30% of our food from the EU, and another 16% from countries that have trade deals with the EU. If the processing of vehicles at Calais goes from 2mins to 4 mins there'll be 25 miles queues down the motorway. All the food will have to be checked. If they can't keep immigrants out of the country they are going to struggle with meat unfit for human consumption. Maybe the Tories will combine the two to keep costs down?

No deal will also mean dearer food:- 

The British Retail Consortium (BRC) has tried to calculate the impact of tariffs on prices in the shops. It foresees a price rise in the range of 5–29% for beef, 6–32% for cheddar cheese, 9–18% for tomatoes and 5–10% for broccoli. The BRC explained: "The reason for the range is we do not know how domestic producers would react to price increases … would they raise their prices or would they put more of their own product on the UK market if they face tariffs to export to the EU"

And this is the best bit (well, worst):-

But even Mrs May’s agriculture minister doesn’t believe the rest of the world will  step up to supply Britain in the EU’s place, as he told the Committee : "There will be some opportunities for new trade deals … [but] it is important not to exaggerate the opportunities … There is already quite a lot of trade that takes place. The impacts of these new agreements are probably less than some people would presume".

A poke in the eye for those saying "we'll just get deals outside the EU, piece of cake innit". 

I saw Rees-Mogg going on about giving tariff-free deals to countries we import from. What he didn't say is that would impact the ability of British produces to compete.

BREXIT - fecking up this country and it's people from 2019 until forever. But at least that Polish couple down the road will have to go home.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0513/962885-brexit-britain-food/

Edited by blueboy3333
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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It could be May last week as PM with Davis and Johnson to replace her as PM and Deputy PM. The talks for us to leave Brexit has been a miss. I wouldnt be paying any leaving fee either. Tell the EU no. Its our money.

No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

We can have our own trade deals with USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, China. We dont need the EU for this. Really hope we dont agree to any silly deals were the EU can blocked us from making these days. 

I.dont want to another vote. But understand why some do. 

No other party is ready to lead talks and Corbyn or his party shouldnt be near these talks.

Just been reading that Corbyn voted against a tax breaks for low paid workers. The Labour leader has failed to back moves raising the amount employees start to pay tax - which currently stands at £11,850. Corbyn voted against these measures over the past eight years which have saved basic ratepayers £5,634 since 2011. Thought they look out for low paid workers?

 

 

Who do you think the winners are going to be in trade deals with a US president who puts "America First", a Japan who has used this country for the past 30 years as a conduit to sell into the EU and will no longer have any use for us, and a China that sees the UK as "small and insignificant" (their words) and not worth bothering with? As for Mexico and Canada, they are only interested in Nafta, the big US market on their doorstep - what makes you think they want to trade with a tiny market like the UK?

David is so useless even the terminally hopeless May sacked him while Johnson with his ridiculous pronouncements and dreadful record in the FO is unfit for public office at any level. 

The Corbyn story was published in the Sun only - no other newspaper carried it as far as I am aware, which makes you wonder a) on its veracity and b) the motive for yet another media smear against the Labour leader. Could it be that Murdoch, like many right wing media owners, are petrified of him because he will finally clamp down on their decades of tax evasion and deceit ?  Quoting the Sun also shows your lamentable choice of news reading - you really ought to do better.  

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1 hour ago, den said:

How could they operate their just in time supply lines if there’s friction at the ports?

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

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11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Who do you think the winners are going to be in trade deals with a US president who puts "America First", a Japan who has used this country for the past 30 years as a conduit to sell into the EU and will no longer have any use for us, and a China that sees the UK as "small and insignificant" (their words) and not worth bothering with? As for Mexico and Canada, they are only interested in Nafta, the big US market on their doorstep - what makes you think they want to trade with a tiny market like the UK?

David is so useless even the terminally hopeless May sacked him while Johnson with his ridiculous pronouncements and dreadful record in the FO is unfit for public office at any level. 

The Corbyn story was published in the Sun only - no other newspaper carried it as far as I am aware, which makes you wonder a) on its veracity and b) the motive for yet another media smear against the Labour leader. Could it be that Murdoch, like many right wing media owners, are petrified of him because he will finally clamp down on their decades of tax evasion and deceit ?  Quoting the Sun also shows your lamentable choice of news reading - you really ought to do better.  

I posted Corbyn voting record on the issue and you know what he has voted against it every single time. So much for him caring for low pay workers. He care for one group of people and that's it. his Labour union members and that's it. 

Secondly, why isn't this ignore function working properly @J*B, @Tom and @K-Hod? it seems to not worked after posted but works when you come on to the new page

Edited by chaddyrovers
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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

Firstly you said you didn’t believe the heads of the car industries, now you do. 

Chaddy, what are you talking about? Do you believe them when they say they can’t accept friction to their just in time supply lines? Yes or no will do.

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

You do understand the two examples given relate directly to the EU? The car parts are shipped around Europe to make cars for the European market, not the USA and Canada. The food under discussion is grown in Europe. How easy do you to think it is to ship tomatoes from the US to the UK.

It's people such as yourself who voted leave that have placed this country in a crisis situation which will take decades to overcome. It's clear you simply do not understand and this why the public should never have been given a vote on the subject.

I hate to tell you this chaddy but you're about to discover the folly of supporting leave along with millions of others who were lied to as they were lead up the garden path. You made the bed and you'll be sleeping in it for a very long time.

Edited by Paul
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"No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

 

Well, yes they're is, otherwise it would've been done already, wouldn't it? 

We either stay in the custom's union and avoid a hard border, or we come out of the union, rely on wto rules and as per international law, have a physical border. That is what a Canada style deal would entail and it would lead to a return of the troubles

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Chilling piece in the Guardian on Dominic Raab from 2012. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right

Wearing jeans, the 38-year-old backbencher is talking – warily – about transforming the British workplace. He thinks current employment law offers "excessive protections" to workers. "The talented and hard working have nothing to fear. People who are coasting – it should be easier to let them go, to give the unemployed a chance. It is a delicate balancing act, but it should be decided in favour of the latter."

 

This is the right wing Tory agenda behind Brexit - the type of Britain the likes of Raab, Rees-Mogg, Redwood and Davis want to see, one in which workers have no rights and live in fear of the sack,  and employers rule with a rod of iron.

Chaddy and his ilk have a shock coming.......

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An old Eaton boys dispute between Cameron and Johnson has led to the referendum that was completely not needed, they the Tories have made a complete and utter hash of any negotiating position that we could have had so now we are left facing a very bad deal or no deal scenario.  We are now left facing a decision that will be bad for all of us particularly the working class.

I feel sorry for the young generation that will grow up in a country which is divided, isolated and lacking the opportunities that we had when we were growing up.

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5 hours ago, Kamy100 said:

An old Eaton boys dispute between Cameron and Johnson has led to the referendum that was completely not needed,

We were promised a referendum under Blairs lot , he got re-elected and it never happened. So credit is due for actually following it through, as a politician delivering a promise is a rare thing.

I honestly think that if there had been a referendum when the champagne socialist and lover of a Federal Europe was in charge the result would have been different, but Blair realised his ultimate aim of snout in the top trough at the EU might be compromised , and after all the secret backdoor work he had inflicted on the UK on their behalf  .

So blame Labour (the new now old one )

Its no surprise that the rat has re-surfaced recently is it?

If there should have been any vote it should have been in 1993 under the very weak (in terms of number of seats) Conservative Government when the EU absorbed the EEC which was what people actually originally voted on twenty years earlier. At that time there was still some very capable politicians from all sides who could have dealt with the aftermath regardless of which way a referendum went , which can not be said about the current lot.

Edited by perthblue02
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14 hours ago, Paul said:

You do understand the two examples given relate directly to the EU? The car parts are shipped around Europe to make cars for the European market, not the USA and Canada. The food under discussion is grown in Europe. How easy do you to think it is to ship tomatoes from the US to the UK.

It's people such as yourself who voted leave that have placed this country in a crisis situation which will take decades to overcome. It's clear you simply do not understand and this why the public should never have been given a vote on the subject.

I hate to tell you this chaddy but you're about to discover the folly of supporting leave along with millions of others who were lied to as they were lead up the garden path. You made the bed and you'll be sleeping in it for a very long time.

I'm still happy with voting out and I stand by that. 

We will get a trade deal but we shouldnt be told what to do by EU leaders and it should be tariff free. 

Also time for UK bill of rights! 

How many on here voted to leave and brave enough to admit on here? I wonder

 

Edited by chaddyrovers
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Why will we get a trade deal? The EU negotiation team isn't telling us what to do, but they're not going to accept proposals that threaten the integrity of the EU. Why should they? 

A tariff free deal means staying in the customs union, so why bother leaving the EU in that case? 

UK bill of rights? What? 

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Chaddy, you didn’t answer my question which was 

 

“Firstly you said you didn’t believe the heads of the car industries, now you do. 

Chaddy, what are you talking about? Do you believe them when they say they can’t accept friction to their just in time supply lines? Yes or no will do.”

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On 21/10/2018 at 01:47, chaddyrovers said:

It could be May last week as PM with Davis and Johnson to replace her as PM and Deputy PM. The talks for us to leave Brexit has been a miss. I wouldnt be paying any leaving fee either. Tell the EU no. Its our money.

No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

We can have our own trade deals with USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, China. We dont need the EU for this. Really hope we dont agree to any silly deals were the EU can blocked us from making these days. 

I.dont want to another vote. But understand why some do. 

No other party is ready to lead talks and Corbyn or his party shouldnt be near these talks.

Just been reading that Corbyn voted against a tax breaks for low paid workers. The Labour leader has failed to back moves raising the amount employees start to pay tax - which currently stands at £11,850. Corbyn voted against these measures over the past eight years which have saved basic ratepayers £5,634 since 2011. Thought they look out for low paid workers?

 

There is no leaving fee Chaddy. The amount of money we will need to pay represents money we have already committed to pay - we are obliged to pay it whether we leave or not. If we don't pay we will be defaulting on our commitment. If that happens what will that say to any other country that wants to do business with us?

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17 hours ago, Kamy100 said:

An old Eaton boys dispute between Cameron and Johnson has led to the referendum that was completely not needed,

How do you justify that it wasn't needed? Given the result, it was absolutely required, the electorate voted to change course from what would have been had there been no referendum.  Even if the result had been overwhelmingly in favour of staying, I personally had been waiting a long time for the chance to vote against us becoming a member of the EU and was glad to have that chance at last. The only problem with calling the referendum was that it took so bloody long after Maastricht that opinions on it are entrenched and it's left the country divided instead of looking optimistically to our future. 

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12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm still happy with voting out and I stand by that. 

We will get a trade deal but we shouldnt be told what to do by EU leaders and it should be tariff free. 

Also time for UK bill of rights! 

How many on here voted to leave and brave enough to admit on here? I wonder

 

We will end up contributing to the EU projects we want to keep using. 

To me, the outcome of this whole process will be so different to what was said at the time, and we have learned so much more (impact assessments, actual deal vs easiest deal in history etc)  that there is a definite need to check that the UK voters still want to take the risk of Brexit. If they agree, then so be it.

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4 hours ago, Rover-the-Top said:

How do you justify that it wasn't needed? Given the result, it was absolutely required, the electorate voted to change course from what would have been had there been no referendum.  Even if the result had been overwhelmingly in favour of staying, I personally had been waiting a long time for the chance to vote against us becoming a member of the EU and was glad to have that chance at last. The only problem with calling the referendum was that it took so bloody long after Maastricht that opinions on it are entrenched and it's left the country divided instead of looking optimistically to our future. 

 Internal Tory party problem foisted on the country by a weak prime minister (Cameron) - it was definitely not "needed". The result was skewed by lies and deception and playing towards  the base instinct of the working class (immigration). It's no surprise that immigration has since been quietly forgotten while the real issues - the single market and the threat to Northern Ireland - have come to the fore. Brexit is likely to be the biggest national humiliation since Suez with similar far-reaching consequences - so much for the bright sunny uplands. 

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Certainly feels like the chances of there being a second referendum are going up at by day.

Latest polling suggests now a 3-7% lead for Remain. Government could fall at any time. Could well end up back at square one.

What an absolute mess.

I'm a remainer but to be honest think any outcome and we are buggered, even if we stay in. The country is mortally divided on the EU question, and vast resources will continue to be swallowed up debating this topic back and forth for potentially decades - money and intellectual effort that could be better used looking at climate change, how to effectively tax international companies, the upcoming pensions crisis, how to manage the impact of AI to jobs, or any number of other rapidly approaching risks to our wellbeing.

It's depressing.

If one lesson comes out of this I think for major changes to the status quo there needs to be a super majority (ie. 60% or 66% support, depending how you define it) simply to make sure there is sufficient entrenched support to see it through.

A majority of 1.5% is not really enough to give the government a secure negotiating platform, which is one of the major contributors to this unravelling chaos.

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Cameron's FPTP referendum was always flawed - a 60-40 decision either way and there would have been no arguments. Together with austerity he must be a candidate for one of the worst prime minister's in my lifetime - and there is plenty of competition. 

 

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On 22/10/2018 at 07:08, chaddyrovers said:

I'm still happy with voting out and I stand by that. 

We will get a trade deal but we shouldnt be told what to do by EU leaders and it should be tariff free. 

Also time for UK bill of rights! 

How many on here voted to leave and brave enough to admit on here? I wonder

 

I voted leave and I stand by it. 

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If any of you leavers know how to solve the problem of Ireland then let your leader know because she doesn’t have a clue.

That doesn’t include Chaddy because he has no idea how to get around the damage that friction at the borders will cause. Leavers do tend to fall by the wayside when soundbites and bluster are exhausted. Detail kind of stumps em as well.

good luck everyone.

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Can someone then please provide me with facts regarding the benefits of leaving the EU. No waffle about new trade deals etc. Just factual benefits.

Meanwhile the quote below is Robert Peston's daily report:

"A shocked Cabinet was today told of Department of Transport contingency plans to own or lease roll-on roll-off lorry ferries to make sure vital supplies of goods, food and medicines continue to reach these shores if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. 

According to work commissioned by Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, a possible French decision to reintroduce customs checks could reduce freight coming into the UK via Dover and the Channel Tunnel by around 85%. 

So the UK would in those circumstances have to bring in vital imports to other ports such as the Port of London, Tilbury and Liverpool. 

The proposed scheme is called GOOL, or Government Owned or Operated Logistics. 

“It’s the kind of stuff governments do in a time of war” said one member of the cabinet. “It is as serious as that”. 

That said the best precedent for the plan was the creation by Clement Atlee’s Labour government in 1948 of the National Freight Corporation, which was originally known as British Road Services. 

In the case of GOOL, three options are being examined: buying ships, leasing them or converting military vessels. 

I am told the military option is thought to be the least viable. 

“This was the bombshell in a meeting that contained lots of dull stuff” said another minister. 

He added that perhaps it would be the “sobering moment” that showed colleagues why a no-deal Brexit would be “so damaging”."

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