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1 hour ago, den said:

Sparks...  Philip was asked why he said the majority of people wanted to remain. I told you because the polls said that. Why are you arguing against that?

Polls are not really something to use as a factual argument.  You are stating something as fact which you don't know to be a fact.  You might know a certain polls result, but you cannot extrapolate that to suit your argument,  especially when the general election result suggests differently.

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

The Tories didn't drag us out of the EU to strengthen workers rights for gods sake - What planet are you on ?

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

But we have general election and Conservatives won and we had a referendum and leave won. 

Accept both results instead of trying rewrite history. 

More excuses from the EU. They have 12 months. Time to earn their money not keep making us excuses. Get on with it. 

Says the supporter of a party that's taken 3 years to get us nowhere. Yet you're demanding the EU gets OUR problem sorted within a year?

Sorry Chads but the real world takes longer. It's not Boris vs Tusk. It's Boris vs 27 other heads of state. That will take at least a year to ratify.

It's not an excuse, it's reality.

It's a bit like if you order something from John Lewis, the soonest it can physically get to a collection point is 1pm the next day. Yet you think they're making excuses because you want it at 10am.

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Polls are not really something to use as a factual argument.  You are stating something as fact which you don't know to be a fact.  You might know a certain polls result, but you cannot extrapolate that to suit your argument,  especially when the general election result suggests differently.

It’s a fact that every poll for the last two years have shown remain to be ahead of leave. That is a fact.

yes, no?

 

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Just now, Mike E said:

Says the supporter of a party that's taken 3 years to get us nowhere. Yet you're demanding the EU gets OUR problem sorted within a year?

Sorry Chads but the real world takes longer. It's not Boris vs Tusk. It's Boris vs 27 other heads of state. That will take at least a year to ratify.

It's not an excuse, it's reality.

 

No Mike, Parliament got us nowhere even after they all said they would inact the result of referendum went. Guess what Labour didn't. Some Conservatives MP's didn't. 

If the EU wanted it done fast then could do it. So what different? Nothing. Just the same old EU saying it can't be done or this can't be done. Just like the EU said that May Deal was the only deal on the table. And look at what happen then, they backtrack and give us a different deal

We have been quite clear that we are leaving at end of 2020. End of. 

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

No Mike, Parliament got us nowhere even after they all said they would inact the result of referendum went. Guess what Labour didn't. Some Conservatives MP's didn't. 

If the EU wanted it done fast then could do it. So what different? Nothing. Just the same old EU saying it can't be done or this can't be done. Just like the EU said that May Deal was the only deal on the table. And look at what happen then, they backtrack and give us a different deal

We have been quite clear that we are leaving at end of 2020. End of. 

 

They gave us the same deal with a border down the Irish Sea. Two minutes work. Hardly compatible with what’s ahead now.

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18 minutes ago, den said:

It’s a fact that every poll for the last two years have shown remain to be ahead of leave. That is a fact.

yes, no?

 

No, not a fact.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

2 Mar 2018 = Leave wins

8 Mar 2018 = Leave wins

27 June 18 = Draw

14 July 18   = Draw

26 Oct 18    = Draw

4 Dec 18     = Draw

11 Feb 19   = Draw

30 Nov 19  = Draw

Edited by Silas
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48 minutes ago, den said:

It’s a fact that every poll for the last two years have shown remain to be ahead of leave. That is a fact.

yes, no?

 

I don't know to be perfectly honest, if you say so.  Isnt it strange then that we seem to be going the opposite way to the polls in the actual elections/referendum,  so I'd say you shouldn't rely too much on them.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Says the supporter of a party that's taken 3 years to get us nowhere. Yet you're demanding the EU gets OUR problem sorted within a year?

Sorry Chads but the real world takes longer. It's not Boris vs Tusk. It's Boris vs 27 other heads of state. That will take at least a year to ratify.

It's not an excuse, it's reality.

It's a bit like if you order something from John Lewis, the soonest it can physically get to a collection point is 1pm the next day. Yet you think they're making excuses because you want it at 10am.

Some things the EU can agree to but there are then things that have to be agreed by the government of each separate country. Who are we to tell them to get a move on? They have their own concerns and don't have to do what we ask

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It wasn't much of a difficult decision for the EU to amend the withdrawal agreement. Johnson and his gang went to them and asked if they could have the same deal that they agreed with May except a bit worse for the UK, (a lot worse for Northern Ireland). What would you expect them to say?

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6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So it was a different deal

We got the same deal in the end that the EU offered in the first place! Theresa May stuck out for a bit better and got it.

Johnson gave up what she fought for.

Utterly ludicrous to regard this as an achievement.

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6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No Mike, Parliament got us nowhere even after they all said they would inact the result of referendum went. Guess what Labour didn't. Some Conservatives MP's didn't. 

If the EU wanted it done fast then could do it. So what different? Nothing. Just the same old EU saying it can't be done or this can't be done. Just like the EU said that May Deal was the only deal on the table. And look at what happen then, they backtrack and give us a different deal

We have been quite clear that we are leaving at end of 2020. End of. 

 

Then it will be without a deal and the damage to Britain's economy will be severe.

 

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13 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Boris turning the screw on the EU by outlawing any transition extension.

They best get to work... less talk more action. Not the EU way but this is Great Britain !

Good move from the PM.

He's turning the screw on the UK by doing that mate. As is well documented, although the EU does need a good trade deal with us rather than WTO terms, it needs it considerably less than we do.

That deadline is not feasible. Failing to meet it will give the economy a hard hit. A bit of goddamned patience and that doesn't need to happen.

Even if I was a Brexiteer and Tory voter, I can't envision how that simple logic would overcome a desire to leave. You can all have what you want, just show some patience instead of fucking us all along the way.

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6 hours ago, Silas said:

No, not a fact.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

2 Mar 2018 = Leave wins

8 Mar 2018 = Leave wins

27 June 18 = Draw

14 July 18   = Draw

26 Oct 18    = Draw

4 Dec 18     = Draw

11 Feb 19   = Draw

30 Nov 19  = Draw

You can't have 6 out of 8 draws on a national referendum.

At any rate I've seen far more polls saying it would be a Leave win.

Doesn't matter anymore, the political system has hoodwinked us out of the possibility of anything other than leaving at this stage. We are getting Boris' shitty deal, or no deal, and that's the end of it.

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Johnson will bend over to "get it done" because he wants to be seen as man who "get things done", no matter how bad they are.

His deal is already worse than May's with the DUP thrown under a bus and a red line down the Irish Sea. Who and what is going to be next under the bus as trade talks progress? Brussels holds all the cards. 

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10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

He's turning the screw on the UK by doing that mate. As is well documented, although the EU does need a good trade deal with us rather than WTO terms, it needs it considerably less than we do.

That deadline is not feasible. Failing to meet it will give the economy a hard hit. A bit of goddamned patience and that doesn't need to happen.

Even if I was a Brexiteer and Tory voter, I can't envision how that simple logic would overcome a desire to leave. You can all have what you want, just show some patience instead of fucking us all along the way.

Negotiation between two parties is all about win win results.

Ramp up the pressure. No fear. We will get exactly what we want by the set deadline. Boris has exactly the correct negotiation strategy.

There is always the brinksmanship to move position right until the last minute. Fear should never be the starting position.

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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Johnson will bend over to "get it done" because he wants to be seen as man who "get things done", no matter how bad they are.

His deal is already worse than May's with the DUP thrown under a bus and a red line down the Irish Sea. Who and what is going to be next under the bus as trade talks progress? Brussels holds all the cards. 

He's boxed himself into a real corner by taking up this position. The EU can afford to drag their feet now, the Johnson gang can't. 

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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8 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Negotiation between two parties is all about win win results.

Ramp up the pressure. No fear. We will get exactly what we want by the set deadline. Boris has exactly the correct negotiation strategy.

There is always the brinksmanship to move position right until the last minute. Fear should never be the starting position.

You're in for a serious disappointment.

Only chance we get a trade deal through by then is by caving to EU demands. If it happens at all by the end of the year, it'll be a sub-par one.

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Johnson can drag his feet if he wants to. He won the election and has a majority.

His mind changes on a whim.

What would the Tories do if he suddenly came out and said; "you know what, we need to get the exit deal done properly. Let's do it right."

 

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3 hours ago, philipl said:

Dear Prime Minister,

We will now, it is clear, leave the EU. Those who did not want this have lost. I understand you believe this to be in the national interest and that you have a democratic mandate for it. But I hope you can understand that for me, and my fellow signatories, it will involve a profound wrench. We will experience it as the loss of an important part of our identity.

So I write to ask you, respectfully, to take up an initiative your predecessor declined to support in your negotiations on our future relationship with the EU. The initiative is for a form of Associate Citizenship – for those who want it. It will not hinder your negotiations but it would be a hugely significant olive branch to us.

For you to take up the initiative would be the act of a statesman, it is precisely what bringing the country together looks like.

With kind regards,

Jolyon Maugham QC, and the following signatories.

 

 

 

What does that mean?

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