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1 hour ago, dave birch said:

A fine sentiment, Gumboots.

Indeed to all, at this special time of the year, good will, for a happy and peaceful time.

Enjoy with your loved ones.

Touché Dave.

hope you all enjoy Christmas.

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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4 hours ago, philipl said:

If Big Ben tolls on 31 January...

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne

My son and daughter-in-law are getting an apron from me with that quote and the EU stars on it.

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On 23/12/2019 at 10:35, 47er said:

and in London----Garden Bridge, Boris Buses, Jennifer Arcuri, suppression of report on Russian interference in the 2016 referendum, etc

People pointing out corruption abroad don't realise this country is totally corrupt.

The political system and its cheerleaders in the media is skewed towards the establishment and the elite.

The tax dodgers and the establishment won again on Dec 12. 

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I see the promised Tory enquiry into Islamophobia within the party has been quietly dropped by the new regime. Of course it was obviously just for electoral purposes and they'd no intentions of having a real enquiry. Cue outrage in the gutter press on the scale of the Labour Party/antisemitism row  ? Err, I think not. Nothing to see here.

Another story in today's paper is that the far right " Britain First " party is busy infiltrated the Tories. 2/3rds of their 7,500 members have joined the Tories since the election.

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

Looks like we are heading for the European Parliament refusing to ratify the Withdrawal Agreement because of Johnson welching on human rights.

From the Daily Telegraph: 

 

You think brexiteers care about citizens rights or workers rights Philip?

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Chaddy - one of the really big points that the Leave campaign made was that leaving the EU would allow the UK to to do away with all these "restrictive" EU regulations on workers rights and other issues. You can't seriously be suggesting that what they meant was that the protections weren't tough enough?

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4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Evidence it wont? 

 

There really is no point in telling us what will happen in future - and not being able to back anything up.  It’s a pathetic way of debating.

ive produced many links in the past to Tory cabinet members and their views on workers rights and how it should be easier to sack employees.

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4 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Chaddy - one of the really big points that the Leave campaign made was that leaving the EU would allow the UK to to do away with all these "restrictive" EU regulations on workers rights and other issues. You can't seriously be suggesting that what they meant was that the protections weren't tough enough?

We can do our own working rights? 

Like our own rights on maternity and paternity rights are much better than EU better standards? Not agree? 

 

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3 minutes ago, den said:

There really is no point in telling us what will happen in future - and not being able to back anything up.  It’s a pathetic way of debating.

ive produced many links in the past to Tory cabinet members and their views on workers rights and how it should be easier to sack employees.

So no evidence to prove that UK working rights will be worst then? 

I've give an example that show our UK laws are better than EU laws on Maternity and paternity rights. 

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26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We can do our own working rights? 

Like our own rights on maternity and paternity rights are much better than EU better standards? Not agree? 

 

You're right that the UK's maternity and paternity rights are in excess of the EU minimum, along with many other EU countries and I don't believe there will be any changes to these benefits in the immediate future. But there are plenty of other rights that the Tories (or more correctly their business backers) are desperate to reduce below EU minimums. Some examples of areas they are keen to row back on are the Working Time Directive, Agency Workers' Rights and unpaid parental leave. Then there are of course the laws about seasonal labour, the people who pick our fruit and vegetables for example. Although I'm a bit out of date since retirement I do know quite a bit about EU HR regulations having sat on a CBI committee for several years that discussed them and their introduction into the UK. And as the son of a farmer I know lots about picking veg (enough to know that I wouldn't do it and farmers can't get any locals to do it either), particularly that if we stop seasonal labour coming in we will either be running short of fruit and veg or paying an awful lot more for them.

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6 minutes ago, only2garners said:

You're right that the UK's maternity and paternity rights are in excess of the EU minimum, along with many other EU countries and I don't believe there will be any changes to these benefits in the immediate future. But there are plenty of other rights that the Tories (or more correctly their business backers) are desperate to reduce below EU minimums. Some examples of areas they are keen to row back on are the Working Time Directive, Agency Workers' Rights and unpaid parental leave. Then there are of course the laws about seasonal labour, the people who pick our fruit and vegetables for example. Although I'm a bit out of date since retirement I do know quite a bit about EU HR regulations having sat on a CBI committee for several years that discussed them and their introduction into the UK. And as the son of a farmer I know lots about picking veg (enough to know that I wouldn't do it and farmers can't get any locals to do it either), particularly that if we stop seasonal labour coming in we will either be running short of fruit and veg or paying an awful lot more for them.

Thanks for detail response there  

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

So no evidence to prove that UK working rights will be worst then? 

I've give an example that show our UK laws are better than EU laws on Maternity and paternity rights. 

I’ve just told you, but you don’t read.

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Sadly, Brexiters and Leavers are going to be imprisoned together on the diminished little island.

First time I have heard Ursula van der Leyen but watching this, she's going to smash that buffoon Johnson.

Starts at about 12 minutes- 

 

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12 hours ago, den said:

Here we go, this will appeal to many brexiteers for obvious reasons. I don’t want my country to behave like this....

 I always believed the Tories to be cruel. Now I just think they're evil

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2 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

2nd reading passed.

3 weeks we leave.

This is why Boris won by a landslide....

the only one with the balls and ability to enact democracy.

I wonder how Gina Miller is getting on repaying the taxpayer.

Brexit decade starts dominating British politics is what you mean.

The angst this far is nothing compared with what is coming.

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