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45 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I believe we will be the trend setters here, I fully expect further countries to look at withdrawing from this undemocratic club.  Within 10 years there will be at least 5 more left.  Why keep pumping billions of our money  into something that never gets its accounts signed off.?

Based on what first hand evidence?

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Do I need evidence to form a view based on what I've seen, witnessed, read on various platforms.  ?  The status quo would have had you believe that nobody here wanted to leave the EU until you actually asked people.   Wouldn't it be interesting to actually hold referendums in each of the 27 and see what the results would be. ...?

The EU would never do this as they know what would happen 

Unelected club for the boys

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2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I believe we will be the trend setters here, I fully expect further countries to look at withdrawing from this undemocratic club.  Within 10 years there will be at least 5 more left.  Why keep pumping billions of our money  into something that never gets its accounts signed off.?

Brexiteers have always said the EU will break up.

But where is the evidence?

The reality of the past 3 years plus is the EU27 rock solid and united and one country wracked by division and likely to split a union that has been in existence for over 300 years.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Brexiteers have always said the EU will break up.

But where is the evidence?

The reality of the past 3 years plus is the EU27 rock solid and united and one country wracked by division and likely to split a union that has been in existence for over 300 years.

 

 

I'm confident that with EU not being able to prevent us leaving will certainly inspire other like minded populations.   It's true to say that in the past they have made countries vote again until they get the right answer, but they couldn't manage it with us, so I feel this will set a precedent.  Let's see eh?

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38 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm confident that with EU not being able to prevent us leaving will certainly inspire other like minded populations.   It's true to say that in the past they have made countries vote again until they get the right answer, but they couldn't manage it with us, so I feel this will set a precedent.  Let's see eh?

They're aren't any "like-minded populations". Sure, there are anti-EU factions in some countries but they're very much a minority. The vast majority in Europe see the benefit of membership of the single market and customs union

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

 

I've provided evidence which proves what you're saying is incorrect.

If you can show why you're "confident" other countries will want to leave the EU I'll stand corrected. 

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15 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I've provided evidence which proves what you're saying is incorrect.

If you can show why you're "confident" other countries will want to leave the EU I'll stand corrected. 

Not really evidence though is it? You've posted a very generic poll that shows a slight upturn in popularity of the EU across 27 different Countries.

That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the nuance of what could be going on in a handful of those Countries. 

To be honest your graph looks very similar to the UK one in Spring 2016 that showed an upturn in Remain of 7% (37% to 44% Feb to Apr). A fairly massive shift at the time.

Then 2 months later the Country voted a totally different way. And that's one Country. Imagine the anomalies that could occur over 27 different Countries. 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/

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1 minute ago, Silas said:

Not really evidence though is it? You've posted a very generic poll that shows a slight upturn in popularity of the EU across 27 different Countries.

That doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the nuance of what could be going on in a handful of those Countries. 

Here's a more recent poll which shows similar support for the EU. There's loads more.

https://www.european-views.com/2019/12/eurobarometer-shows-59-in-favour-of-their-countrys-eu-membership/

Polls can be wrong but they are a reasonable barometer of the mood in the EU. If the polls were wrong, there'd be mass protests on the streets, which I have seen no evidence of.

I've acknowledged there are anti-EU protest groups in some countries, but by and large they are not mainstream

Most Europeans have seen the absolute mess this country is in because of Brexit and decided there is alot to be lost and nothing gained by leaving the EU.

And they're right

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46 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Most Europeans have seen the absolute mess this country is in ......

No more of a mess than it was ever in before Brexit was even invented.

In fact, growth looking pretty strong, unemployment at record lows. Exact opposite of what the "experts" predicted.

Think you doommongers should wait till the actual doom might kick in before you start the victory dancing. 

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17 minutes ago, Silas said:

No more of a mess than it was ever in before Brexit was even invented.

In fact, growth looking pretty strong, unemployment at record lows. Exact opposite of what the "experts" predicted.

Think you doommongers should wait till the actual doom might kick in before you start the victory dancing. 

GDP has been on downward trajectory since 2016. The economy barely grew at all in the last quarter of 2019.

Unemployment at record lows but in-work poverty at record highs, pointing to low wages and rubbish jobs.

Food banks FFS. 

The country has been through hell for 3 years.... and for what benefits?

Very few that I can see. 

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1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Here's a more recent poll which shows similar support for the EU. There's loads more.

https://www.european-views.com/2019/12/eurobarometer-shows-59-in-favour-of-their-countrys-eu-membership/

Polls can be wrong but they are a reasonable barometer of the mood in the EU. If the polls were wrong, there'd be mass protests on the streets, which I have seen no evidence of.

I've acknowledged there are anti-EU protest groups in some countries, but by and large they are not mainstream

Most Europeans have seen the absolute mess this country is in because of Brexit and decided there is alot to be lost and nothing gained by leaving the EU.

And they're right

You won't see protests in most EU countries as the majority take more out than they put in!

It would be like Turkey's voting for Christmas.

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13 minutes ago, Doug said:

You won't see protests in most EU countries as the majority take more out than they put in!

It would be like Turkey's voting for Christmas.

Nine countries are net contributors to the EU besides Britain:

Germany, France, Italy, The Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland

Have you see significant anti-EU protests in those countries? 

Nope, neither have I. 

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4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Have you see significant anti-EU protests in those countries? 

Nope, neither have I. 

Why asked a question if you going to answer yourself? 

Very arrogant response. 

The majority of voters who actually went and vote, voted to leave. Fact!

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19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The majority of voters who actually went and vote, voted to leave. Fact!

This is a discussion about Brexiteers' claims that the EU will break up. 

Whoosh!

You've missed the point.

Again. 

 

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24 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Nine countries are net contributors to the EU besides Britain:

Germany, France, Italy, The Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland

Have you see significant anti-EU protests in those countries? 

Nope, neither have I. 

Keep an eye on Italy over the next few years and France has huge problems (albeit about proposed pension reform to save money).

Germany will feel more isolated, as we (surprisingly) were often seen as their allies in a system (EU) dreamt up by and dominated by the French.

We will see, my thoughts are that by our next GE things will not look as 'lovey' in the EU. 

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25 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

Italy has big economic and societal problems; even Salvini has recognised that leaving the EU and going it alone is unthinkable. Germany and France will move closer after Brexit and it is likely to be more of a partnership of equals. Support across Europe for the EU is at historically high levels. I can only see that increasing as Britain descends into  post-EU chaos over the coming years

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42 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

Germany will feel more isolated, as we (surprisingly) were often seen as their allies in a system (EU) dreamt up by and dominated by the French.

 

Why is it a surprise that Germany saw us as allies. Until the 20th century we always had been. It was the French who were our enemies most of the time

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1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The country has been through hell for 3 years.... and for what benefits?

Very few that I can see. 

Been through hell, do me a favour.

That's the exact point, very little has happened to date, (food banks and other poverty issues have been around since the 2007/9 recession, you can't blame everything on Brexit.)

What Brexit will bring in the future we will see. But mainly all it's caused these last few years is a load of bickering, bitching, and moaning. Sadly, predominantly in the Houses of Parliament that are tasked with sorting it.

In terms of benefits, for many it's not about the here and now, or monetary benefits, but more safeguarding our Country for decades to come and future generations.

Perhaps read up on this website and it might help explain to you the fears many Brexiteers have, and why we voted a certain way. It also debunks a lot of the myths used as taglines to beat people with throughout this thread:

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org

I would recommend the "About Us" section, "20 bogus arguments" and "10 key points on immigration" that give a good snapshot.

They have been highlighting this issue for almost 2 decades now, well before most people suddenly found an opinion these last few years.

Their advisory panel includes:

Mrs Kiran Bali MBE (Indian heritage), Professor David Coleman (Oxford University), Baroness Cox (H of Lords Dep Speaker), Mr Alp Mehmet (Cypriot Immigrant), Dr Ahmed Ibrahim Mukhter (Sudanese Immigrant), Mr Hazhir Teimourian (Iranian Immigrant), and Professor Roger William's CBE.

 

But I'm guessing these lot are just a bunch of thick racists too, as all Brexiteers are generally labelled in this thread. 

 

Disclaimer:

Before anyone brings it up, this group have had to pull a paper recently for it being statistically inaccurate. And they do have their critics out there. 

And I'm not saying everything they say is right. But I do agree with a lot of it, and think they make some very good points.

Summary:

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, people are entitled to their own opinions. That's life. Everyone thinks differently.  But this tagline of "there's not one single valid reason for Brexit" is getting very old.

There's a website filled with scores of them, many backed up with statistical evidence. 

If any of you remainers genuinely think our Nation - with it's already overburdened and failing amenities, systems,  and infastructure - can sustain hitting 70 odd million people, then I'm all ears to hear the solutions. 

Because if you have the answers, then we can get on to the relevant authorities sharpish and stop all this. 

But if you don't, then maybe quit barking questions out to other people, demanding answers and then sneering and sniggering when they don't arrive, because I would politely suggest you don't have many of them yourselves. 

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2 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

Migration Watch ....... a short history of spin, shoddy statistics and downright dishonesty.

It's basic premise is that everything is the fault of immigrants.

Can't take you seriously. Sorry

.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Migration Watch ....... a short history of spin, shoddy statistics and downright dishonesty.

It's basic premise is that everything is the fault of immigrants.

Can't take you seriously. Sorry

.

 

 

No, it's basic premise is that overpopulation is the problem. 

Obviously,  immigration is intrinsically linked to that.

And you can never take anything seriously Jim that asks you to actually face some valid points, and respond with answers.

You very much like it to be a one way street, the other way round. 

Do the predicted future population levels in the UK not worry you? Do you feel we are adequately equipped to maintain and service the needs of such a population? 

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5 minutes ago, Silas said:

Do the predicted future population levels in the UK not worry you?

Do you feel we are adequately equipped to maintain and service the needs of such a population? 

1, No, because a growing population is a sign of a successful country and much better than its opposite, de-population, 

The UK is not overcrowded. Just 7% of the UK's land area is now classified as "urban" (a definition that includes rural development and roads, by the way), which means almost 93% of the UK is not built on.

2. Probably not. But that is the fault of government. Infrastructure spending in this country has been lamentable for decades. 

It's all a non-issue to me. Immigration has been and will continue to be good for the economy.

And it's not a reason to leave the EU. 

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