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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Brexiteers have always said the EU will break up.

But where is the evidence?

The reality of the past 3 years plus is the EU27 rock solid and united and one country wracked by division and likely to split a union that has been in existence for over 300 years.

 

 

Theres a guy on newsnight now saying that you should expect Swexit, Nexit and Gexit as the european people want out too.  MEP saying he's been talking to MEPs and there are many who think they might follow us.  Not as rock solid as you suggest 

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3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Theres a guy on newsnight now saying that you should expect Swexit, Nexit and Gexit as the european people want out too.  MEP saying he's been talking to MEPs and there are many who think they might follow us.  Not as rock solid as you suggest 

Who was saying it, out of interest ? 

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I'll just playback, hang on..........David Campbell Bannerman...the remainer who was on with him to balance it , an MEP even admitted DEXIT is a possibility. The Scandinavian countries are like us....lets see  

Ah, I just googled Dexit and it's a pokemon character ☺️

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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Bannerman, oh dear.

Ex-Ukip. Rabid Brexiteer. He once said treason laws should cover British citizens with "extreme loyalty" to the European Union.

Nothing to report. 

Yeah, but Emma Barnett, agreed.with him and the general agreement was that there is some movements, so I'm just pointing out that your previous comment is inaccurate.  I've never seen the guy before in my life , or the remainer MEP

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28 minutes ago, den said:

Migrationwatch - good grief Silas!

?

That's all you guys got?

No retorts? 

You got a whole website of actual information there. 

Go on, debunk away. Counter argument the death out of it.

But no, you won't. You'll just try and swiftly move on and keep repeating yourselves. 

But with little or no content to your message,  other than 'Brexit bad". 

For the record, I've never denied Brexit will/could mean the UK takes a hit to the economy. (I question the extent of it, and the scaremongering). But I was willing to take the chance anyway for other reasons. 

As I've said before, we're divided, split down the middle, so we must try and understand each others views at the very least. But you guys just don't engage.

So, convince me. Alleviate my concerns. Tell me how the UK copes with 70+ million people in all aspects of our life. It isn't coping at the moment. Far from it. The politics thread is full of examples of where it's failing. But that's all down to "Conservatives bad". Like there's some perfect party out there just ready to swoop in and wave a magic wand and sort it all out. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. 

Lots and lots of questions from people. Very few answers. Questions don't solve anything,  answers do.

I don't believe for a minute that any of you truly think if Brexit didn't exist all our problems would be solved and it's back to business as usual. The fairytale continues. You're smarter than that. 

Brexit may be a serious bump in the road,  but let's not pretend the road wasn't crumbling to shit before, full of potholes, no road markings left, cats eyes destroyed,  and just waiting for a car crash to occur any day irrespective of the nasty B word. 

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20 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

...the remainer who was on with him to balance it , an MEP even admitted DEXIT is a possibility. The Scandinavian countries are like us....lets see  

Ah, I just googled Dexit and it's a pokemon character ☺️

????

Jesus Christ Sparks. You're not really helping team Leave here.

It's like we've got Phil Jones at the back, gurning faces and knocking in own goals. 

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At the risk of repeating myself, a growing population ain't a problem if you invest in infrastructure. Building schools, hospitals, roads, railways etc is good for the economy. HS2 should be just the start. 

Apart from the austerity nonsense, which "car crash" was awaiting us before Cameron gave in to the ERG nutcases and decided to let the country solve a Conservative party problem with a referendum that no one wanted?  

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On 23/01/2020 at 19:41, den said:

So, WA passes into law. 
 

big questions for every brexiteer now including those on here :-   Do you still want frictionless trade with the EU - in which case the U.K. will have to maintain alignment with the EU rules and regulations ( level playing field ), or do you want to move towards the USA - meaning a deregulated  free trade agreement that represents only a tiny fraction of the value of the EU market and the probability of huge job losses in the U.K.? 
 

you knew what you voted for, so which do you want?

Mods, has my request for an answer to this been hidden? If so why? It’s a very valid question and deserves an answer I think.

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3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

1, No, because a growing population is a sign of a successful country and much better than its opposite, de-population, 

The UK is not overcrowded. Just 7% of the UK's land area is now classified as "urban" (a definition that includes rural development and roads, by the way), which means almost 93% of the UK is not built on.

2. Probably not. But that is the fault of government. Infrastructure spending in this country has been lamentable for decades. 

It's all a non-issue to me. Immigration has been and will continue to be good for the economy.

And it's not a reason to leave the EU. 

 

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

At the risk of repeating myself, a growing population ain't a problem if you invest in infrastructure. Building schools, hospitals, roads, railways etc is good for the economy. HS2 should be just the start. 

Thanks for the responses Jim. Genuinely interested to get views from the other side.

I mean consider my mind blown that you think the UK is only 10% "full up", and you're pretty much one of the first people I've heard be a fan of HS2.

That's not to say you're wrong, I'm right etc. It is what it is. We're clearly oceans apart in our viewpoints, but I think we knew that already.

I think I get your plan, invest in the schools/hospitals etc, that creates the jobs and puts money in pockets, the people spend the money which flows into other industries. Everyone gets a little touch, it flows full circle, economy booms and also the facilities are there to cover the needs. 

I truly wish it were that simple. But, I'm not convinced it can be. And there's always economies of scale. I fear ours has scaled up to a pretty unmanageable size. I also think the whole thing is blurred to hell because it overlaps with a once in half a century global crash.

Labour spent loads at one end of spectrum (they weren't to know what was coming), Conservatives came and went other end with austerity.  Then in amongst it all Brexit appeared and festered and will continue to do so for some time. 

Basically,  a hotpot of crappy ingredients that now need to be mixed up to make a semi palatable stew. But, one thing we can maybe agree on, it's a dire lack of quality in the chefs that is hampering any decent progress, and will continue to do so. Sort that out, and the future might look brighter. 

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Population size has little to do with EU immigration. that has always risen and fallen. Recently it’s fallen again. We also have controls over EU immigration and non EU immigration that successive governments have ignored because they know the country needs it. Immigration is undoubtedly good for the country when used properly, which in the main it is.

fundamentally immigration was a tool used by Farage and company to scare people and rouse the racists and Xenophobes.


 


 

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20 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Migration Watch ....... a short history of spin, shoddy statistics and downright dishonesty.

It's basic premise is that everything is the fault of immigrants.

Can't take you seriously. Sorry

.

 

 

The " immigrants " on the panel are only to keen to pull up the draw bridge now they are safely on board.

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3 hours ago, philipl said:

Sturgeon making some sort of announcement tomorrow.

I will be delighted to welcome Scotland back into the EU at the soonest possible moment.

I will laugh my cock off if Jimmy Kranky announces that Philip was the first UK national to apply for a blue passport ?

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

A taste of what UK negotiators face. So much to lose, so little to gain from a market tiny in comparison to the world trading superpower that is the EU. 

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

Philip, what's an ambit claim?

This from wiki about Darroch:

"Cables leak and resignation

On 7 July 2019, secret diplomatic cables from Darroch to the British government, dating from 2017 to 2019, were leaked to Steven Edginton, a 19-year-old "freelance journalist" and Brexit Party employee.[15]The Mail on Sunday published excerpts,[16] including Darroch's unflattering assessments of the Trump administration, which stated that it was "inept and insecure".[17] In response, Nigel Farage said Darroch was "totally unsuitable" for office,[18] and Trump tweeted that Darroch was "not liked or well thought of within the US" and that "we will no longer deal with him".[19] The Prime Minister, Theresa May, expressed support for Darroch and ordered a leak inquiry.[20] It led to a criminal investigation by Scotland Yard.[15]

On 10 July, Darroch resigned as Ambassador to the United States. He wrote that "the current situation is making it impossible for me to carry out my role as I would like".[21] Previously, Boris Johnson, the frontrunner in the election to replace May, had declined to publicly back Darroch. Consensus among political commentators in the UK was that this made Darroch's position untenable.[22] Both May and the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, praised Darroch's service in the House of Commons and deplored that he had to resign under pressure from the United States.[21] A spokesman for the prime minister said that it was an ambassador's job to provide "an honest and unvarnished view" of the US administration.[21] Darroch will remain in the post until a successor is appointed.[23]."

 

It would appear he has a pot to stir.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, den said:

A taste of what UK negotiators face. So much to lose, so little to gain from a market tiny in comparison to the world trading superpower that is the EU. 

Jeez, Den, I thought you were talking about the US , China or India there.

Even we, in little old Australia, get good deals.

Even ones that don't affect our PBS, (google that)

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EU is world's biggest trading bloc, more powerful than the US and China. India doesn't count and is going backwards under Modi.

Britain will get a deal with the EU - but nothing will replicate the advantages of being a member of the single market of 400m people.

2 coronavirus cases confirmed in the UK today. 

Is it a desperate "Remoaner" bid to thwart the "will of the people"? 

 

 

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