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20 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Yes we know what the extreme left and extreme right think - both are in favour of Brexit, for different reasons, but both want it - It's the centre that doesn't want Brexit and if you advocate Brexit then you political views don't occupy the centre ground.

Well by that reasoning,  37% of the electorate are "extremists". 

You surely can't believe that. 

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

The Tories didn't drag us out of the EU to strengthen workers rights for gods sake - What planet are you on ?

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Speaking to the Brexters I know, I can believe this, yes

The Lexiters I know are all SWP spartists who believe the EU promotes globalisation and the Brexiters are all racists, I can't say I know a single Brexiter that also doesn't hate foreigners or Islam, but generally both.

Edited by Jimbo
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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I caught a report on the radio this morning that Trump was incandescent with rage in a phone call to Johnson regarding our adoption of some Huawei technology. It's not looking good for the mega trade deal is it ?  

I'm amazed that a lot of people still think we have some magical 'Special Relationship' with the USA. where we are considered some kind of equal The truth is that they regard us as little more than another fly on their back.

Anyone that's been to the USA and spoken to any amount of Americans would realise that they mostly see the UK (if they've even heard of it in the first place) as insignificant and some even think London is a country.

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1 hour ago, Silas said:

Some balanced views from the centre are more relevant to the debate IMO. Strangely, I don't see many of them getting posted to this thread. It's almost as if people just want to post articles that suit their agenda. 

I notice various articles posted from the FT and Guardian over the last few pages. Some avid readers on here clearly. Yet, no-one posted the one about Nissan potentially pulling out the EU and moving their whole operation to the UK that was plastered all over both papers:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/03/nissan-eu-uk-hard-brexit

Talk of an increase of 4% to 20% market share. The article covers both sides of the debate, but seems very relevant to a Brexit discussion to me. Odd that everyone missed it. Perhaps the headline didn't suit. You know, soundbites and all that. 

 

Nissan denied that story - and to be honest it doesn't make sense either.

Nissan as a company is in trouble (Carlos Ghosn and the Renault partnership) and it's far more likely that with the rise of nationalism and trade barriers it will retreat to ts homeland and take all foreign production back to Japan.

Sunderland isn't safe by any means

 

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1 hour ago, Husky said:

I'm amazed that a lot of people still think we have some magical 'Special Relationship' with the USA. where we are considered some kind of equal The truth is that they regard us as little more than another fly on their back.

Anyone that's been to the USA and spoken to any amount of Americans would realise that they mostly see the UK (if they've even heard of it in the first place) as insignificant and some even think London is a country.

 The so-called Special Relationship works only one way. The US has always been "America First", even before Trump. 

They are not our "friends".

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1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

Speaking to the Brexters I know, I can believe this, yes

Wow some statement that. 

I'm not sure Syria would have been considered to be one thirds full of extremists when it was occupied by ISIS. 

That's the kind of level your pitching at. 

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15 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Nissan denied that story - and to be honest it doesn't make sense either.

Nissan as a company is in trouble (Carlos Ghosn and the Renault partnership) and it's far more likely that with the rise of nationalism and trade barriers it will retreat to ts homeland and take all foreign production back to Japan.

Sunderland isn't safe by any means

 

Yeah, yeah.. I can read too Jim. 

Consider me shocked that a Company has denied a leak of one of their potential business plans.

But you're right, that's what it will be, one of probably half a dozen plans they have drafted up. No doubt, they could opt for a different one including returning to Japan.

Point still stands though. It's conjecture, as our the majority of the articles linked in this thread. Just find it telling that any of the pieces predicting doom and gloom are posted in a nano second, but any with a positive spin are completely ignored. 

Would be nice to have some balance no? Maybe help cheer us all up a bit. 

 

12 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 The so-called Special Relationship works only one way. The US has always been "America First", even before Trump. 

They are not our "friends".

I agree. 

We're pretty much the Penfold to their Danger Mouse.

Genuinely only just thought of this and had a quick look up:

https://danmacgregor.fandom.com/wiki/Ernest_Penfold

"He is called the jigsaw because every time he is faced with a problem he goes to pieces.........he dislikes going on missions with DM and always makes excuses not get involved......he is sometimes used as a pawn for DM's enemies' schemes......"

Yep, sounds about right. 

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6 hours ago, Silas said:

Well by that reasoning,  37% of the electorate are "extremists". 

You surely can't believe that. 

37% isn't all that high, if you split it into extreme left and extreme right.

If you spun it as 63% of the electorate are the middle ground, it sounds about right imo.

Edited by Mike E
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3 hours ago, Mike E said:

37% isn't all that high, if you split it into extreme left and extreme right.

If you spun it as 63% of the electorate are the middle ground, it sounds about right imo.

The middle number sounds all right Mike, the other one is scary as hell.

Think about it, you walk down a street and every 3rd house has an extremist in it - a racist,  a xenophobe, a terrorist, a fascist etc.

What the hell?!

What streets do you lot live on? And remind me never to go to a house party there. 

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44 minutes ago, Silas said:

The middle number sounds all right Mike, the other one is scary as hell.

Think about it, you walk down a street and every 3rd house has an extremist in it - a racist,  a xenophobe, a terrorist, a fascist etc.

What the hell?!

What streets do you lot live on? And remind me never to go to a house party there. 

Tbf, you're right about Darwen ?

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On 07/02/2020 at 17:43, Silas said:

Come on now Philip, it's not just a view from "Washington DC" is it? 

It's the view of a heavily left leaning newspaper written by a heavily left leaning journalist (Ishaan Tharoor had  "...... a Yale career defined by an involvement in left-wing political activism...")

I mean this is the same balanced newspaper that labelled Abu Bakr al Baghdadi an "austere religious scholar", when the rest of us were quite happy just to label him a murdering scumbag. 

Now, none of that makes everything written in the article wrong or untrue, I just think if you're going to keep quoting sources as some sort of proof of your stance on Brexit then perhaps mix it up a bit. 

In terms of Brexit, after more than 3 years now, we all know what the extreme left think, and we all know what the extreme right think. We've heard it over and over and over.

Some balanced views from the centre are more relevant to the debate IMO. Strangely, I don't see many of them getting posted to this thread. It's almost as if people just want to post articles that suit their agenda. 

I notice various articles posted from the FT and Guardian over the last few pages. Some avid readers on here clearly. Yet, no-one posted the one about Nissan potentially pulling out the EU and moving their whole operation to the UK that was plastered all over both papers:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/03/nissan-eu-uk-hard-brexit

Talk of an increase of 4% to 20% market share. The article covers both sides of the debate, but seems very relevant to a Brexit discussion to me. Odd that everyone missed it. Perhaps the headline didn't suit. You know, soundbites and all that. 

If you think the middle ground centrists haven't expressed an opinion you've clearly read nothing.

I'm a Remainer and always will be. All my friends bar two are Remainers  and the majority are Labour voters. None of us are far left or right, we simply believe in a fair and caring society. It's not difficult to understand.

As for Brexit? It's bollocks and those who will suffer the most are those who voted for it. I've met some Brexiteers recently, intelligent and articulate people......without a single rational, economic reason to support their vote or opinion.

Edited by Paul
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Good evening Brexiteers.

It's been over 1 week since we finally Brexited. Can anyone tell me when I can expect my life to improve as I haven't seen any improvement yet (what was that Party all about on the 31st?)

All I've seen since Brexit is Coronovirus in the UK, record number of migrants landing on UK shores, Islamic terrorists being let out of prison early, Chinese influence in the UK increasing tenfold at the Government's invite, and even our ever so strong Turkish decedent of a Prime Minister is being told off by the President of The United States. I was led to believe that all this un-British nonsense that's holding us back was going to stop after the 31st as we've taken our country back finally.

So come on, stop hiding in your fridges and tell me WTF is going on? 

NigelFacade.jpg

Edited by Husky
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1 hour ago, broadsword said:

We have only truly brexited once transition period is over. This is still the phoney war 

?I'm confused.

Have the goalposts been moved again? 

First Brexit Day was October 31st 2019.

Then  it Was January 31st 2020.

Are you now telling us the new new date is December 31st 2020? I presume the party was 11 months early because, unfortunately, God help us all, The Tories do seem to have one or two of their own Diane Abacuses. 

It's certainly in keeping with the Tory policy of making up nonsense dates in the future whilst doing very little about the now. How about we say the new Brexit date is 1st April 2037? So as not to get anyone's hopes up. ?

 

Edited by Husky
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News today that the EU and Japan are putting the finishing touches to their newly-negotiated Trade Agreement.

UK is asking for identical terms but the Japanese have refused us and are insisting on a deal more advantageous to them.

An outcome I suggested months ago. They will because they can, we are in a weak position, not the powerful one the Brexiteers have pretended.

Welcome to reality.

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2 hours ago, 47er said:

News today that the EU and Japan are putting the finishing touches to their newly-negotiated Trade Agreement.

UK is asking for identical terms but the Japanese have refused us and are insisting on a deal more advantageous to them.

An outcome I suggested months ago. They will because they can, we are in a weak position, not the powerful one the Brexiteers have pretended.

Welcome to reality.

47er, that's not what these people are saying:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/japan-eyes-free-trade-deal-with-post-brexit-britain/

Particularly this:

"Japan already has an economic partnership agreement (EPA) with the EU, which went into force last February. This deal will cover British-Japanese trade throughout the duration of the transition period, but the U.K. will need to strike its own bargain with Japan to replace it. Both the Japanese and British governments have expressed hopes that their bilateral trade deal will be more ambitious than the existing Japan-EU EPA. For the U.K., an aggressive trade deal with Japan is desirable as potential leverage to strengthen its position vis-à-vis the EU. But British desire for a comprehensive deal – and the very real deadline Brexit imposed – provides opportunities for Japan as well."

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55 minutes ago, dave birch said:

47er, that's not what these people are saying:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/japan-eyes-free-trade-deal-with-post-brexit-britain/

Particularly this:

"Japan already has an economic partnership agreement (EPA) with the EU, which went into force last February. This deal will cover British-Japanese trade throughout the duration of the transition period, but the U.K. will need to strike its own bargain with Japan to replace it. Both the Japanese and British governments have expressed hopes that their bilateral trade deal will be more ambitious than the existing Japan-EU EPA. For the U.K., an aggressive trade deal with Japan is desirable as potential leverage to strengthen its position vis-à-vis the EU. But British desire for a comprehensive deal – and the very real deadline Brexit imposed – provides opportunities for Japan as well."

 Key word “Hope”.

The U.K. will be in a far weaker position than Japan. Which is what 47er said?

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29 minutes ago, den said:

 Key word “Hope”.

The U.K. will be in a far weaker position than Japan. Which is what 47er said?

And what I said was what I heard on a news broadcast----the EU was close to concluding a trade agreement with Japan, UK pressing for same deal, Japan saying 'no".

What do you think those "opportunities" for Japan might be then? Offering Britain a better deal?

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Japan has rightly pointed out that a bilateral trade deal with 60m people cannot be as advantageous as one with 400m people.

This is a numbers game where size matters and not being part of the bloc has made us significantly weaker.

We will get trade deals with the EU, US, Japan etc but none will be better than being part of the single market on our doorstep

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