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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It was reasonable worst case scenario presented yesterday by Michael Gove. 

Lorries need a permit to pass through Kent. Sensible as we can track Lorries around the UK and other ports they might used. 

Why criticise something that need to come in and that's can track Lorries up and down the country. 

 The government is proposing to have an effective border within England - don't you realise the insanity of this and which you are actually supporting ??

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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1 hour ago, Gav said:

Forecasts are not facts 47er, you know that and I know that.

Yes but we have to have them! How else can government operate? You've said we can't prove any of them which is obvious in a literal sense  but we can use our judgement based on the credentials of the experts involved and their track record.

What we shouldn't do, but are doing, is to take no notice of experts and forecasts and then down the line conclude "oh shit its worse than Coronavirus!"

Too late then? Agreed?

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3 hours ago, philipl said:

I hardly "joined"that bank.

I am simply using the best Fintech solution currently available for transferring between £ and Euros.

My Revolut accounts currently have the princely sum of 1p in them- not joking!

Sold his soul to the Devil for a penny. Shocking!

(Joking of course!)

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3 hours ago, lsp82 said:

Latest figures show Brexit has cost 130billion so far. Which if you deduct the 11 billion still leaves us 119billion short.

 It's actually about £40 billion a year since 2016, which makes a total of approx £160 billion lost GDP since the Brexit vote.

£11 billion saved barely touches it. Some folk can't do the sums. 

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3 hours ago, Gav said:

Forecasts are not facts 47er, you know that and I know that.

If the weather forecast said that on high ground there was risk of 80mph winds, torrential rain / sleet and poor visability and I decided to go do a fell run over several peaks with my summer gear on and got into trouble. I'm sure the mountain rescue would think I was a dick for going up unprepared rather than nodding in agreement with "forecasts arent facts" 

It's odd, on this thread you're very much in the mind set of "it hasnt happened yet, stop complaining" and "forecasts arent facts" but in the covid thread, when cases and deaths had dropped quite low you were warning of a second wave  which both hadnt happened yet and was based on forecasts. 

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24 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

If the weather forecast said that on high ground there was risk of 80mph winds, torrential rain / sleet and poor visability and I decided to go do a fell run over several peaks with my summer gear on and got into trouble. I'm sure the mountain rescue would think I was a dick for going up unprepared rather than nodding in agreement with "forecasts arent facts" 

It's odd, on this thread you're very much in the mind set of "it hasnt happened yet, stop complaining" and "forecasts arent facts" but in the covid thread, when cases and deaths had dropped quite low you were warning of a second wave  which both hadnt happened yet and was based on forecasts. 

Instead of wading in with the size 12's you'd be better served reading a bit on context..

The question was posed again by Den, claiming, nobody had shown how we'd be better off.

The ONS figures clearly show we will be better off by £11bn by not paying into EU based on 2018 figures, that is based in fact - indisputable, it will be higher in 2019.

Forecasts are just that, forecasts, I'm not disputing the validity, but they're not based in fact, cannot be proven as we sit here today, are simply a best guess, ONS figures are proven.

Simple really.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gav said:

Instead of wading in with the size 12's you'd be better served reading a bit on context..

The question was posed again by Den, claiming, nobody had shown how we'd be better off.

The ONS figures clearly show we will be better off by £11bn by not paying into EU based on 2018 figures, that is based in fact - indisputable, it will be higher in 2019.

Forecasts are just that, forecasts, I'm not disputing the validity, but they're not based in fact, cannot be proven as we sit here today, are simply a best guess, ONS figures are proven.

Simple really.

 The economy is £160 billion down on where it would have been had the leave vote not occurred. So we're clearly not "better off" at all. 

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17 minutes ago, Gav said:

Instead of wading in with the size 12's you'd be better served reading a bit on context..

The question was posed again by Den, claiming, nobody had shown how we'd be better off.

The ONS figures clearly show we will be better off by £11bn by not paying into EU based on 2018 figures, that is based in fact - indisputable, it will be higher in 2019.

Forecasts are just that, forecasts, I'm not disputing the validity, but they're not based in fact, cannot be proven as we sit here today, are simply a best guess, ONS figures are proven.

Simple really.

 

 

 

It’s a ridiculous argument Gav. You know that. 

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23 minutes ago, Gav said:

Instead of wading in with the size 12's you'd be better served reading a bit on context..

The question was posed again by Den, claiming, nobody had shown how we'd be better off.

The ONS figures clearly show we will be better off by £11bn by not paying into EU based on 2018 figures, that is based in fact - indisputable, it will be higher in 2019.

Forecasts are just that, forecasts, I'm not disputing the validity, but they're not based in fact, cannot be proven as we sit here today, are simply a best guess, ONS figures are proven.

Simple really.

 

 

 

I'm far too short for size 12s

Possibly out of context on that quote, but on this thread you're consistently of the opinion of "it's not happened yet" and that people complaining are doing do based on forecasts which could be wrong. 

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10 minutes ago, den said:

It’s a ridiculous argument Gav. You know that. 

But based in fact, not forecasts.

Now stop asking that silly question over and over and over again will ya :P

2 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I'm far too short for size 12s

Me too Dom :tu:

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6 hours ago, gumboots said:

So how the heck have we generally managed for the last 50 years? Lorrydrivers have delivered goods all over the place without needing a permit to enter Kent. As in every other walk of life, there's been a few rogue ones but in general, they've come, delivered goods where needed, picked up loads and taken them back to Europe. Its a system thats WORKED. Now, for nothing more than political ideology, the government plans to replace it with a level of bureaucracy we haven't known in nearly 50 years and has made no real preparations to do so. Hence the potential for 70 mile queues. And you think that's reasonable?

a few rogue ones? Plenty of rogue ones out there, suggesting you start watching programmes that cover the Britain Border force police on Sky, etc. 

But the last 50 years was under the EU which after the 31st December we won't be part off, so we need to take border security seriously and make it secure and enforce by Border police. By doing this we will know when every lorry and driver is entering and leaving the UK, where they are delivering to and whether they pick up goods before they return to Europe. Like how the USA or Canada do it. 

If people have the correct paperwork and documentations you won't be park up in Kent and allow to go

Edited by chaddyrovers
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6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

a few rogue ones? Plenty of rogue ones out there, suggesting you start watching programmes that cover the Britain Border force police on Sky, etc

Just gonna throw it out there but it wouldnt make for good telly if they filmed a guy rocking up at a port and it turns out all his paperwork was in order and there was no issue with his cargo of bottled water. 

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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If people have the correct paperwork and documentations you won't be park up in Kent and allow to go

..... but, but, but, but the Brexiteers assured us they wanted rid of red tape.

So the conclusion is UK red tape = OK; EU red tape = not OK, except this Kent "border" is going to cost us £50 million a year.

Another Brexit dividend!

 

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Just now, RoverDom said:

Just gonna throw it out there but it wouldnt make for good telly if they filmed a guy rocking up at a port and it turns out all his paperwork was in order and there was no issue with his cargo of bottled water. 

Well thats your take on it, But I see as the reporting is really happening in this country with the border force, immigration services, etc 

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24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well thats your take on it, But I see as the reporting is really happening in this country with the border force, immigration services, etc 

Nobody denies there aren't bad ones. Its a case of numbers. If they film anything and nothing happens there's no programme. Thousands of lorries cross the Channel. Very few do anything wrong. They edit programmes so they show what they want. 

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49 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Nobody denies there aren't bad ones. Its a case of numbers. If they film anything and nothing happens there's no programme. Thousands of lorries cross the Channel. Very few do anything wrong. They edit programmes so they show what they want. 

well what the case numbers then Gumboots?

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I doubt that anyone knows an exact number of rogue drivers. But the fact that this issue is nowhere near the top of anyone's news agenda means that they must be few and far between. There are probably enough for a dedicated film crew to spend many filming hours finding to knock up a programme but if there were really loads we would be hearing about it much more often than we do.

It\s like all the programmes about airlines and airports. If you put a film crew in there for long enough you will find someone who does something really stupid every now and again, but the chances of you actually seeing something like that when you take a flight is pretty remote.

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Anyone remember the case of that geezer who stowed himself on a plane from Africa. He somehow managed to cling on to the wheel, almost all the way to Heathrow but he landed in someone's garden in Richmond. 

 

Ooops, turns out it was Clapham. Anyways, I would've let the guy stay if he'd made it. Anyone who managed that, they're going to make a positive contribution

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-48830212

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Less than 100 days to the end of the Transition Period.

Bungling Brexit is being bungled to the last irrespective of whether you are pro or anti.

Brexit remains totally undefined beyond bollocks like this:

Dominic Raab defined the difference between remainers and leavers is that the former believe UK prosperity to be dependent on its location, whereas the latter believe that it is dependent on character. Being dependent on the character of Brexiters explains the bottomless cess pit the UK finds itself in.

 

There is the horrendous reality that Brexiteers really did believe that they could have their cake and eat it. It was only in February after the Withdrawal Agreement Treaty that the Government finally accepted that frictionless trade was going to be an impossibility. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/11/business/brexit-frictionless-trade/index.html

As Theresa May said in the House of Commons, if the Withdrawal Agreement was so bad, why did the Government sign it? 

 

The UK bumbles on.

Nobody can remotely now pretend Project Fear is not about to become reality. In fact it will be far worse.

Here is the British Chamber of Commerce pointing out 26 unanswered questions about 1 January 2021. 

 https://www.britishchambers.org.uk/news/2020/09/brexit-26-unanswered-questions-for-business-with-fewer-than-100-days-to-go

 

OK, 45% of British businesses believe mistakenly the transition arrangements will be extended but no way can Government shift the blame for the existential mess they have driven Britain into on anyone other than themselves.

A massive failure of character.

 

And then there is Covid yet Brexit carries on as though nothing else is happening in the World-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/24/covid-means-uk-needs-eu-deal-to-avoid-calamity-says-lord-odonnell

Totally makes my point that Covid has totally destroyed any rationale for leaving the Single Market and Customs Union.

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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/25/sir-jim-ratcliffe-uks-richest-person-moves-to-tax-free-monaco-brexit-ineos-domicile

"It has been estimated that the move will save him £4bn in tax payments .... His decision to quit Britain came soon after he was knighted by the Queen for “services to business and investment”, and the UK voted to leave the European Union"

The Brexit rats continue to leave the sinking ship. The Red Wall have been utterly conned.

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