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20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I am asking you what to you actually want from your comments? 

Brexit has happened as we have left the EU and leave the transition period very shortly. hasn't alot the trade deaf; has been agreed was easy to negotiate?

Have I ever mention £350m a week investment in the NHS in any debate with you? 

 

I’ve asked a few times now but can you explain how I’m going to be better off next year? 

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

The Tories didn't drag us out of the EU to strengthen workers rights for gods sake - What planet are you on ?

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10 hours ago, tomphil said:

Come on please !!!!

Go and ask the various companies from other there who have huge markets over here. Sorry pal but absolute nonsense they see us as irrelevant unless you are talking about the unelected leaches in suits who claim to run it.  Doesn't directly affect them though does it.

Go and ask the CBI about business attitudes here!

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9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Where will they sell the £70bn worth of goods then if it's not to us? Some seriously good salespeople required to tap into other countries and claw back that amount.....at what cost to the EU businesses?

Where will we sell our fish?

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9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

There will be countries in the 27 that rely a lot more on export to the UK than others.  This will be a real test for the commission to keep everyone happy.  I could see some leaving the EU to trade directly with us in the coming years.  A much more democratic trading block could be formed.

Delusion with no evidence at all. Nothing but optimistic hot air---like Johnson.

The true facts will hit you in the face eventually.

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7 hours ago, Silas said:

 

Not getting into "important" etc, but think it was missed last week with Philip's graph prediction, that Brexit does actually hit the EU worse than us as a collective figure. 

If you compare our potential deficit, with them as a group, their deficit would be bigger I believe. (It stands to reason with their larger population, economies of scale.) 

Now, I'm well aware, the figures as a whole show Brexit in a bad light, so there's no winner to be had here. 

But I have had to listen for years about how the EU don't care, it will hardly affect them, it will only be us that takes the hit etc,etc. And people get shouted down for saying anything different, and yet then a staunch pro-EU poster links a graph that illustrates exactly that. 

So, yes, both sides do desperately need a deal to minimise the impact, particularly considering most of those Countries will probably already be in negative per household as result of Covid. 

So nobody benefits in the event of no deal? Many Tory MP's actively want No Deal though.

Its a question of who will be worse off in the event of no deal and I have no doubts about who it will be.

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1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'm not being arrogant, genuinely not looking to offend. Just pointing out that it isn't rational to expect a market a sixth of the size of another to dictate terms to them. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say?

I mean if we were discussing Taiwan thrashing out a trade deal with Japan - Taiwan being roughly a sixth of the Japanese market - you would expect the Japanese to get the best end of the deal surely? What would be the rational basis to not expect that to be the case?

It is perfectly rational to say we'd prefer to keep the fee trade deal as it's in both our interests. Just as it's perfectly rational for the EU to say we want to keep all the fishing rights.

That is negotiation that's the start of it there has to be a starting point. There is absolutely nothing irrational at all in it you are just using it to suit your own agenda. The irrationality comes from the the bitching and bickering that follows, the dummy spitting and toy throwing. That's irrational.

And again size should not come into it where would we be in the world as a country if that was the defining point of everything. Do we let every other free trade deal terms be dictated by the other side around the world just because they are bigger and the deficit is bigger ?

Not the British way really and never has been that's why for a small country we have built a big economy. We punch above our weight often and sadly it seems remain are the real 'little islanders' in all this.

Any opportunity to do their own country down and expect it to get in line and assume its natural level.  I find that really sad.

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7 hours ago, tomphil said:

All the 27 members are not going to sit back and take that though are they. Come on lets have the full picture not the usual one sided guff.

It'll just switch to WTO or whatever and that will be a ballache and have implications but there will be ways to trade.  Just more complicated and probably more expensive but no it will not collapse at all. 

Slow down yes, collapse overnight no. Project fear x30

WTO is a last resort not a desirable goal. Ask the Australians who are often quoted by the PM ---the Australian option!

They are dealing with the EU in a bid to get out of it!

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5 hours ago, tomphil said:

I don't think iv'e claimed that at any point iv'e been trying to stress it is important to both. Mainly in response to those saying it isn't so wind your scrawny neck back in.

You're normally a very reasonable guy whose views on football I invariably agree with. But this is beneath you.

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2 minutes ago, 47er said:

You're normally a very reasonable guy whose views on football I invariably agree with. But this is beneath you.

I call a spade a spade football or otherwise and after reasonably disagreeing with a few all afternoon some crackpot comes along looking to twist everything and start a row.

I always try to be on here as i would be face to face, always have and if you are an arse to someones face then there's usually some sort of stern rebuttal. It should be no different on here.  Saying i don't agree with your opinions whatsoever is understandable but twisting things not once but continually then i'm sorry but i'll say what i think.

 

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33 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I size should not come into it where would we be in the world as a country if that was the defining point of everything. Do we let every other free trade deal terms be dictated by the other side around the world just because they are bigger and the deficit is bigger ?

 

In a word, yes. It's a numbers game.

UK is a market of 60m people; the EU has 450m. Size equals strength in trade talks

 

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40 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Any opportunity to do their own country down and expect it to get in line and assume its natural level.  I find that really sad.

I voted remain because i believe we are stronger and better as a member of the EU, and that we are vastly diminished in the world's eyes by leaving. I call that patriotic

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

Delusion with no evidence at all. Nothing but optimistic hot air---like Johnson.

The true facts will hit you in the face eventually.

Ok.

The 70bn defecit is real, so where will all these commodities go ? You talk about the exit lot not answering questions,  what will happen to that chunk of money/goods.  You know and I know we will sign a deal, but with compromises here and there.  The EU will dress it up as the  better deal for them and vice versa, nobody will.really know...

However, we will be out of that sordid little club,  thank god.

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58 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

In a word, yes. It's a numbers game.

UK is a market of 60m people; the EU has 450m. Size equals strength in trade talks

 

I'm not sure about this.  

If we were  coming from a clean, never dealt with each other before point of view, then yes you would think these numbers would add up to your view.

However, it's not, we are currently running a 70bn defecit.  We buy a lot of their stuff already, we are in a position of strength.  We are a big customer just like in any industry.  You wouldnt want to lose your best customer right on your doorstep would you.?

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1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

IYou wouldnt want to lose your best customer right on your doorstep would you.?

Absolutely not. The EU is our biggest trading partner.  So why are we leaving? 

BTW. My first post referred to the EU's superior bargaining power because of its size in trade talks with the likes of the US, compared to the UK  

 

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4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Sadly. 

On the upside, though, in 10 days the NHS should start getting that £350m per week.

I tell you something Jim, you go and che n how much has been spent over the last year and is planned to be spent up to 2023 and you aren't a million miles from 350m per week...could be over that much. But I can't be arsed working it out.

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9 hours ago, Yoogo said:

Ah, sorry, I've got you, now - that's 60m people "just as important" as 250 million people in terms of a trading bloc. That's not arrogant, nor misguided. 🙄

450 million not 250 million. 

Germany 81m, France 65m, Italy 60m, Spain 39m, Poland 37m, the other 22 countries about 180m between them.

Within the 450 million, over 200 million had a GDP per capita better than the UK's at the start of 2020 even before Brexit and Covid. Germany, France, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria all complete countries ahead. 

Ok London had the highest regional GDP per capita in the EU but that his the fact that places like the North West of England were among the poorest regions in the EU.

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2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Sadly. 

On the upside, though, in 10 days the NHS should start getting that £350m per week.

"Project Fear" always held that £350 million number was a chimera.

We have just been told that emergency funding pumped in responding to a global pandemic adds up to something like £350 million a week.

You get to that number by including unused and unusable Nightingale hospitals and the billions pocketed in multiple scams in PPE procurement.

The fat cat Spanish middleman would not have happened if the UK had remained in the EU procurement scheme. 

The UK is getting spectacularly bad value from its emergency spending.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/22/brexit-risks-uk-health-and-care-sector-report-finds

The Nuffield Trust report is dramatically worse than anything Remain predicted.

The reality that we enter 2021 with is for the health and care services dramatically worse than the direst of "Project Fear" projections five years ago.

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5 hours ago, JBiz said:

I’ve asked a few times now but can you explain how I’m going to be better off next year? 

It's not just about next year but over the next 20, 30 or even 50 years. 

We will control our borders, our economy and our pathway to our future. Making our own laws, trade deals. 

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4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's not just about next year but over the next 20, 30 or even 50 years. 

We will control our borders, our economy and our pathway to our future. Making our own laws, trade deals. 

The French are controlling their own borders aren't they? But I doubt you are supporting them!

 

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The truth about fishing! At last! What I've been trying to say for months in one cracker of a paragraph:

Yet a deal is all but done on everything that matters, according to Michael Gove. Except fish. The government has chosen the sea for the final battle, the most emotive yet least economically important. Harrods alone adds as much to the UK economy as fishing, according to the Financial Times.

Pause here a moment to consider what monumentally dishonest use the Brexiters make of the romance of coastal ports and fishing villages, whose 12,000 small boat fishermen are more precious for picturesque tourism than the value of their catch. True, the overall UK quota is historically unfair. But the greater injustice by far to our fishers is our own government’s allocation of quotas to large companies. Two-thirds of the UK’s quota of fish goes to just three multinationals; boats under 10m long get just 4% though they account for 77% of fishers. A Greenpeace report found a quarter of Britain’s quota was owned by five families, all in the Sunday Times rich list.

Whole article is here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/21/boris-johnson-cabinet-uk-travel-ban-ministers-covid

 

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