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1 hour ago, Gav said:

A bit like Erasmus, irrelevant.

Exactly. 

54 minutes ago, den said:

 

Theres only one party in control here Gav, the EU. 

Totally laughable. The EU needed a trade deal with us. 

13 minutes ago, den said:

Fishermen’s leaders say they were promised full control of our waters Gav. You can find their comments about that easily. In fact the govt promised the country that we would take back control of our waters, so to say they were never going to get that is trying to hide the truth of what’s just happened. Johnson folded because he had to fold. He knew no deal was beyond even him.
 

We told you that as well.
 

 

Anything to say about the trade deal overall and the apparently concessions on the car industry in the North East from the EU? 

 

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Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

The Tories didn't drag us out of the EU to strengthen workers rights for gods sake - What planet are you on ?

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20 minutes ago, den said:

Fishermen’s leaders say they were promised full control of our waters Gav. You can find their comments about that easily. In fact the govt promised the country that we would take back control of our waters, so to say they were never going to get that is trying to hide the truth of what’s just happened. Johnson folded because he had to fold. He knew no deal was beyond even him.
 

We told you that as well.
 

 

No you didn’t. 
 

You told us it was irrelevant and that Britain was making a “symbolic point”. 
 

If the fold in that symbolic point meant we had more favourable terms in the LPF (which you said was an impossibility) then it is good negotiating. 
 

Imagine if we went back and played the “I told you so” card to ever prediction made by “We” (you) in this thread. It would add another 100 pages onto the topic.

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I've just been reading about the new limitations on overseas signing post Brexit -

 

" If he is a regular international with a top 50 nation, he qualifies. If he is uncapped but plays for a big club, he qualifies. If he is uncapped, plays in a lower competition but has played in Europe, he may qualify. No caps, no cups = No chance. "

It also says that such players as  Bryan Mbueno and Teemu Pukki wouldn't have been allowed in under these rules.

The rules on managers include the ability to " speak English " ? It's doubtful wether Bielsa would have passed the new legislation and the current Watford manager, Xisco Munoz, would certainly not pass.

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39 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've just been reading about the new limitations on overseas signing post Brexit -

 

" If he is a regular international with a top 50 nation, he qualifies. If he is uncapped but plays for a big club, he qualifies. If he is uncapped, plays in a lower competition but has played in Europe, he may qualify. No caps, no cups = No chance. "

It also says that such players as  Bryan Mbueno and Teemu Pukki wouldn't have been allowed in under these rules.

The rules on managers include the ability to " speak English " ? It's doubtful wether Bielsa would have passed the new legislation and the current Watford manager, Xisco Munoz, would certainly not pass.

Clubs like Rovers are totally screwed.

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All guff and bluster aside, a direct quote from somebody who knows what they are going on about:

Michel Barnier: “the agreement nearly broke up several times.....Britain has very experienced diplomats who obviously keep asking for more”. 
 

This is strange to hear. Our very informed Brexit correspondent has spent 3 years telling us our diplomacy has been terrible, ridiculed and vastly inexperienced in comparison to the might of the EU.  
 

More nonsense. 

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30 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

All guff and bluster aside, a direct quote from somebody who knows what they are going on about:

Michel Barnier: “the agreement nearly broke up several times.....Britain has very experienced diplomats who obviously keep asking for more”. 
 

This is strange to hear. Our very informed Brexit correspondent has spent 3 years telling us our diplomacy has been terrible, ridiculed and vastly inexperienced in comparison to the might of the EU.  
 

More nonsense. 

Sounds very much like the sort of praise Rovers efforts have received recently from opposing managers. After they've got all three points. 

Given the  fact we rarely sign players from overseas anyway It probably won't have much effect on teams like us.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Sounds very much like the sort of praise Rovers efforts have received recently from opposing managers. After they've got all three points. 

Given the  fact we rarely sign players from overseas anyway It probably won't have much effect on teams like us.

And given the fact we continue to have a category 1 academy churning out useful players means we are probably safe too. 
Where “totally screwed” comes from I have no idea. 
 

In England we have long sought for rules on foreign footballers in order to improve our own international standings. This could be a precursor for something. 

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4 hours ago, Gav said:

We got a brexit deal, thankfully, £650m, what have you got to say about that? I've read nothing so far?

I’ve said plenty Gav, you must not have been reading. It’s a crap deal that leaves us all worse off.

so, We have lost our frictionless borders. Leavers said we wouldn’t. That’s a big loss. 
EHIC cards gone for the majority meaning more expensive holidays and in some cases meaning foreign holidays now out of reach. 
Our biggest industry services left at the mercy of the EU who will decide in the new year what access we will be granted - depends on how far we want to stick to level playing field. Once again the EU will dictate how much access services get into the EU. As with every other aspect of this deal, the EU have been in total charge. Just as remainers said they would.
Lots of red tape/ form filling for exporters which previously didn’t exist. 
GDP to fall by 4% according to financial forecasts since the agreement. 
Fishermen who you said were very important, saying they will be worse off than they were before. That’s the “taking back control of our waters” that was so important to leavers because it was their talisman for regaining our sovereignty. It didn’t regain anything. 

Lots more losses, a shorter summary here that I already posted but not one leaver commented on....

I also quoted this article from the NY Times, first linked by Kamy...

“The result of the deal is that the European Union retains all of its current advantages in trading, particularly with goods, and the U.K. loses all of its current advantages in the trade for services,” said Tom Kibasi, the formerdirector of the Institute forPublic Policy Research, aresearch institute. “The outcome of this tradenegotiation is precisely what happens with most tradedeals: The larger party getswhat it wants and the smaller party rolls over.”

Edited by den
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#NoDealNicola is now trending on Twitter. 
 

 

This is her saying “any deal is better than none” as they now elect to turn the deal down. It is a political stunt and shows the SNP never really cared about the outcome of Brexit, but only of the political flex they could gain from it.

Is there a politician left in the U.K. that doesn’t lie all the time? 

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Despite feeling that the economic case for staying in the EU was overwhelming my main reason for voting Remain in the Referendum was security. Not in the narrow sense of the ending of co-operation between police forces but in the wider aspect of the working together of most European countries since the 1950s leading to the lack of any major conflicts for the last 70 years.

Whilst I don't feel that the UK leaving the EU will lead to serious conflict any time soon you can already see that the rhetoric coming from both sides has heated up relations. I expect that as the next year or two goes on any problems with the new relationship will be blamed on "the other side" rather than the details of the the deal itself.

I'm pleased that we actually do have a deal rather than stumbling into a disastrous no deal situation. But saying that where we are is better than where we might have been is no form of ringing endorsement. We have ended up with Northern Ireland being effectively in the EU and the UK at the same time. We have a deal which creates a fairly level field as regards tariffs (although not documentation) for products but no agreement whatsoever on services, a sector on which 1 million UK jobs depend. No doubt most work and jobs will survive but just a 10% reduction is 100,000 jobs gone. And many of those jobs are decent ones paying well above minimum wage.

Personally I'll be fine, a bit worse off but nothing to really trouble me. There will be irritants around travel  which i would prefer were not there but I'll manage. But anyone who is currently finding it difficult to make ends meet but is getting by could see themselves slip into poverty very easily.

And all for what? Sovereignty? The Independent's leading article yesterday highlighted the fallacy of us having got our sovereignty back. We may be leaving the ECJ but it's been replaced by an Arbitration Tribunal for disputes, a Tribunal to establish precedents and guiding principles just like, well a court.

Instead of the EU Council there will be a Partnership Council with co-chairs appointed by each side and meeting alternately in London and Brussels. Instead of the European Commission the council will be served by a Secretariat. When in the EU UK voters had a vote for members of the EU Parliament - now there is no democratic option for voters to influence the decisions of all the above.

Apart from the job creation for thousands of customs officials and no doubt opportunities for consultancy work in getting through the bureaucracy to export and import, what is this deal doing for anyone on this side of the Channel?

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Den - one positive I forgot to mention. There has been a reprieve on EHIC cards. Assuming you have one still in date you can carry on using it until it expires. There is some sort of vague promise of a new Global Health Insurance Card (GHIC) to replace it, although no time scale as yet or any information on what anyone whose EHIC has run out (like me) should do. Or whether the GHIC will replicate the EHIC fully or not.

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50 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

#NoDealNicola is now trending on Twitter. 
 

 

This is her saying “any deal is better than none” as they now elect to turn the deal down. It is a political stunt and shows the SNP never really cared about the outcome of Brexit, but only of the political flex they could gain from it.

Is there a politician left in the U.K. that doesn’t lie all the time? 

That's possibly the SNP underestimating the capacities of Calamity Doris to come back with a deal that's actually worse than no deal. 

You'd have thought by the fourth attempt, the government would've hit better at this negotiation lark

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20 minutes ago, broadsword said:

That's possibly the SNP underestimating the capacities of Calamity Doris to come back with a deal that's actually worse than no deal. 

You'd have thought by the fourth attempt, the government would've hit better at this negotiation lark

Ah knew there’d be a reason.......

Any deal was better than no deal at one point. Now it isn’t. Of course, though, it isn’t them changing the goal posts..... 🙄🙄

As a point of reference for yourself broadsword Nicola Sturgeon has herself this evening said it isn’t the deal but moreso the fact Scottish voices are not heard. 

With EU membership it also shows the hypocrisy of the EU https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51357050

how can you forget their comments about how difficult it would be for Scotland to rejoin the EU if they voted for independence? Now, it seems, that changes. 

Let’s hope that Spain encourages it. There’s a small region called Catalan that wants independence too. I’m sure we can help their campaign.

Of course though, we only talk about our own hypocrisy, and any other must have a valid reason for doing so. Talk about self loathing  

 

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Of course any deal is better than a No Deal Brexit, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the totally crap deal that Bozo negotiated is a disastrous deal for Scotland, or for the rest of the UK - And it's a paticularly shit deal for the City of London and any business involved in financial services.

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Just now, Jimbo said:

Of course any deal is better than a No Deal Brexit, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the totally crap deal that Bozo negotiated is a disatrerous deal for Scotland, or for the rest of the UK - And it's a paticularly shit deal for the City of London and any business involved in financial services.

Out of interest Jimbo - what makes it a disastrous deal for Scotland? 
 

There’s plenty of independent business authorities that have said the opposite. Im curious. I’ve heard lots of people say it is disastrous for them, but nobody has really expanded on it. 

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44 minutes ago, broadsword said:

That's possibly the SNP underestimating the capacities of Calamity Doris to come back with a deal that's actually worse than no deal. 

You'd have thought by the fourth attempt, the government would've hit better at this negotiation lark

Nah, sorry, you can't just give them a pass because you dislike Johnson. 

Her and Blackford have banged on for years....and I mean literally years!....about no deal, no deal, no deal. Because it suited their agenda at the time.

Here's Blackford just 2 months ago:

SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford has warned of the dangers of a no-deal exit, saying it would add to the already difficult conditions created by Covid-19.

He told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programme: “This is chucking business and communities under the bus.

“We really should recoil at the possibility of a no-deal Brexit when we’re going through a health pandemic, when there are significant risks to our economy, where people are losing their jobs.

“This is just putting misery on misery and quite frankly the Government has got to come to its senses.”

 

You don't get to carry on like that, and then the minute a deal is struck, do a U-turn and say the complete opposite without looking like a prize tit. 

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Edinburgh is the second biggest FS sector in the UK for a start, The fact that the service sector which contributes 80% of the GDP has been left out and are effectivly a hostage of the EU is not a good thing - Admittedly not all of the 80% is subject to EU regulation but a significant proportion of it is and the City of London contributes over 60Bn to the Exchequer, a tad more than fishermen you Brexiteers are so enamoured by.

 

 

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The lack of attention and agreement over the service/financial industry is probably going to mean quite a few companies will switch London for Frankfurt, Holland or Paris. You'd think that such an important sector, one that often lobs money to the Tories would get more certainty in their future. Then again, we're talking about the worst government in decades led by a gang of crooks and morons.

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2 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Edinburgh is the second biggest FS sector in the UK for a start, The fact that the service sector which contributes 80% of the GDP has been left out and are effectivly a hostage of the EU is not a good thing - Admittedly not all of the 80% is subject to EU regulation but a significant proportion of it is and the City of London contributes over 60Bn to the Exchequer, a tad more than fishermen you Brexiteers are so enamoured by.

I assume this is in response to me. So once again I will point out that I am not a brexiteer. It is about time people on here grew up a little with stuff like that - we are meant to be adults. 
 

With respect to the financial services it interested me why it wasn’t a major issue in the trade agreement deal. Until I read this: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-does-the-brexit-trade-deal-mean-for-financial-services/

it explains in far better detail I could why the trade agreement is rather “thin” on the definition of financial services and the access to EU markets. I think what is most important is that neither party has definitively agreed to much. It certainly doesn’t seem to me, albeit only from gleaning others opinions, that our financial sector is “held hostage”. 
 

With reference to Edinburgh it is strange that it is now a problem. The SNP voted down Mays deal did they not? The soft Brexit that Mays govt tried to deliver was brought down on every turn, with parties like the SNP opting for a “People’s Vote”. They effectively got that with the 2019 general election and their idea that people didn’t really want Brexit was shown to be a fallacy. This, however, did also deliver a SNP majority which furthered her ambitions for independence and allowed them to say “Scotland didn’t vote for this”. The only logical conclusion to that is that Sturgeon has never really cared about the Brexit outcome to the people of the U.K., only how much political flex she could gain from it. After all, her position contributed to this hard Brexit govt being given a U.K. mandate. 
 

So once again, seed potato’s aside, I am at a true loss how this deal is “disastrous” for Scotland. It needs more expansion before it can be repeated as a fact. 

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18 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

You don't get to carry on like that, and then the minute a deal is struck, do a U-turn and say the complete opposite without looking like a prize tit. 

🤣 Yeah, fair play. Little Miss Perfect had painted herself into a corner. 

Being asked to back this deal must leave a bitter taste on the mouth though. But in the end, Johnson had to own the whole thing.. 

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