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Just now, broadsword said:

What's the point of having a mind if you can't change it? 

Loosely translated, if Nigel farage took a shit on my lawn I’d lap that up too.

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I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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Good conversation this. Let's not get too aggressive,

I am a leaver but know it's not a easy path. 

We have left. 

Post Barnier the EU seem ok with the deal. We will still trade (obviously) so we should wait and see.

My view is that we will prosper. 

But you are all right, in a democrasy there is always the opportunity of another referendum.

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5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It wasn't cast in a tablet of stone pal. We voted to join the EU in the 1970's in an open and free referendum but that didn't prevent the Brexiteers campaigning to leave from that moment on. That's what democracy means. If people change their minds in the coming years we should be able to reverse the decision.

Perthblue02 has been beaten me to it but we never had a vote to join the EU. 

If you want to keep your hopes up we re join the EU thats fine. But I believe that some more countriues will choose to leave the EU in the next 10 to 15 years time. Just my opinion. 

2 minutes ago, den said:

Hardly different.

You’ve made a massive mistake in voting for brexit. You think I shouldn’t keep telling you that?

Very different Den 

so you keep telling me Den for past 4 years and thats an opinion you are very entitled to hold but I dont share the same opinion and I wont be changing my opinion. so if you want to keep telling me thats fine by me but I will tell you wasting your time!

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

so you keep telling me Den for past 4 years and thats an opinion you are very entitled to hold but I dont share the same opinion and I wont be changing my opinion. so if you want to keep telling me thats fine by me but I will tell you wasting your time!

It’s been a waste of time asking you anything about brexit for the last four years Chaddy because you could never put a coherent argument forwards for leaving.  I’ll keep trying though. You should just accept that.

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6 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I’ve read everything you’ve said and you’ve never made any sense. You’ve never explained reasons in depth or with any element of context.

You just repeat Farage and his cronies lies. Bought, hook, line and sinker.

They’re laughing at you Chaddy, whilst they move business after business offshore. You enabled people to rob you, and you’ll carry on smiling throughout.

JBiz, Ive explained my reasons and you dont agree or accept them. So I am not going to waste my time over the same issue day after day like we did before Christmas

If's thats your opinion then fair enough. 

We have now left the EU now and now its time we focus on growing and prosper the UK going forward. 

 

8 minutes ago, Lihamylly said:

Congratulations and happy new year!

Happy New year to yourself and hope you have good 2021

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14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I voted in the 1970's. Funnily enough I voted to leave then ! I'm going out now, when I get back I'll look it up on the internet. I recall the likes of Roy Jenkins campaigning to stay in and Tony Benn and co were for leave.

You voted in a referendum?

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Just now, den said:

It’s been a waste of time asking you anything about brexit for the last four years Chaddy because you could never put a coherent argument forwards for leaving.  I’ll keep trying though. You should just accept that.

Den, you had your argument for us leaving the EU but sadly after 4 and half years you refused to accept the democratic will of the people and thats we chose to leave the EU 

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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

JBiz, Ive explained my reasons and you dont agree or accept them. So I am not going to waste my time over the same issue day after day like we did before Christmas

If's thats your opinion then fair enough. 

We have now left the EU now and now its time we focus on growing and prosper the UK going forward. 

 

Happy New year to yourself and hope you have good 2021

You haven’t.

You repeat slogans;

Control of laws.. aka “take back control”

Time we focus on growing and “prosper”...

Exactly what Francois and his cronies have been spouting.

You’ve been completely conned and like I said, when our freedoms erode even further, I’ll be blaming the uniformed electorate,

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32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

there is the problem TS. You won't accept the democratic will of the people in open and free referendum. 

I think you only like the democratic process when it supports your view. Had remain won I dont for a second beleive you or the rest of the leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave, that would not have been the end of it and nigel Farage said so before the referendum.

 

The other feature of a democracy is that people can change their minds and the mood of the electorate change. If there is enough support and in 10 years we hold a vote and rejoin, that's democracy in action, it's not ignoring the will of the 2016 referendum. 

 

I have no idea which way i would vote in such a scenario i think rejoining is very different to voting remain, but if you beleive in democracy you should be open to the fact that we could well rejoin in the future and stop telling people to move on. 

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don't know about Gumboots but I won't be accepting it and I won't be moving on. If the Brexiteers had have lost by 52 to 48 do you think for one minute that Farage and co would have called it a day ?  When the dust has settled there will no doubt be an organisation campaigning for us to re-join the EU and I will be throwing my support behind that.

You should know about me! If they'd have us back, I'd rejoin tomorrow. Something to do with speaking the languages, having German grandkids, friends in France and Netherlands, having spent years teaching kids that we have far more common with the rest of Europe than they could guess, and that what divides us is smaller than what unites us. A lot to do with remembering my dad wanting to take us to places he'd last seen from the tank he was driving across Europe and talking about all the kindness he'd met from ordinary people across Europe, and telling us tales of his weeping with people in a shattered and broken Berlin at what their lives were in 45 and 46. I can't stand the narrow minded attitude of many I know who voted for Brexit -i freely acknowledge that some voted to leave for what they believed at the time were good reasons, but many were taken in by slogans or voted based on prejudice against anything foreign. Ive tried all my life to live in harmony with as many people as possible and brought my kids up to be as accepting as possible of others, even when I myself struggled with some people.  So yes, Tyrone, when opposition to the isolation we find ourselves in gets organised, ill be there. 

Oh and I didn't vote in the referendum about our membership of Europe in the 70s because at the time I was living and working in Strasbourg, and postal voting wasnt common at the time, but there was indeed a referendum late 74 or early 75

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Just now, JBiz said:

You haven’t.

You repeat slogans;

Control of laws.. aka “take back control”

Time we focus on growing and “prosper”...

Exactly what Francois and his cronies have been spouting.

You’ve been completely conned and like I said, when our freedoms erode even further, I’ll be blaming the uniformed electorate,

JBiz, Yes I did but I'm not going to keep going over this week after week with yourself. We did this the week before Christmas 

If thats your opinion that Ive been conned then fair enough. We simply have to agree to disagree. 

when our freedoms erode even further?

Just now, RoverDom said:

I think you only like the democratic process when it supports your view. Had remain won I dont for a second beleive you or the rest of the leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave,

I would have accept the referendum result and the will of the people. And move on. 

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I agree with TS. I think in the fullness of time, there will be calls for another referendum to rejoin. 

The younger electorate almost all voted remain, this electorate will grow, and indeed there are individuals who couldn't vote at the time who now can. These are the people who are most likely to be affected. My son & eldest daughter are examples of this who, at 20 & 21 respectively, couldn't vote then but can now.  Both if whom would vote remain.

There are also people like my dad whose argument was "well I didn't vote for it when we joined in the first place, so I'm not voting for it now!" who, due to age, are not going to be here, some of these already aren't.

Once we add in the Farage Fuckwits who seemed to think that on the morning after the result we would be sending 'home' all the Eastern Europeans & anyone with a slight tan, finally realising that this wasn't what leaving the EU was all about, we are looking at a very different picture in regards to a result.

It won't be in the next couple of years, but I can definitely see it happening. Unless of course we do actually prosper & become this rich super nation we are being promised. I'm not so sure.

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7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

JBiz, Yes I did but I'm not going to keep going over this week after week with yourself. We did this the week before Christmas 

If thats your opinion that Ive been conned then fair enough. We simply have to agree to disagree. 

when our freedoms erode even further?

I would have accept the referendum result and the will of the people. And move on. 

Simply stating “so we control our own laws” is just parroting the eurosceptics.

What individual laws?

Who will they benefit?

How will they be implemented?

The only FACT any of us are waking up too; More rules to STOP us from working, living and trading with Europe.

Its a con job.

 

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5 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Dont waste your breath. Chaddy doesn't want to live or work anywhere else, so nor should the rest of us. 

It’s also the same for bringing nurses and other professionals into this country.

Nursing particularly - hopefully we don’t have any scenarios where our NHS is under immense strain from a pandemi.... oh...

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15 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Simply stating “so we control our own laws” is just parroting the eurosceptics.

What individual laws?

Who will they benefit?

How will they be implemented?

The only FACT any of us are waking up too; More rules to STOP us from working, living and trading with Europe.

Its a con job.

 

Jbiz, I have told you my 5 reasons for choosing to vote to leave the EU. 

1. The UK to bring in his own immigration system and the Australia style one based on the skills we need in the country at the time. 

2. Our ability to negotiate our own trade deals and not part of a bloc with the EU. Trade deals with Australia, New Zealand and India for example

3.  regain our own fishing waters, 

4. Grow our own economy without the EU interference and EU laws. Plus we will never join the Euro. IMO the worst thing Spain did was join the Euro. 

5. not sending Billions to the EU and to Brussels 

 

Fishing being one that we can catch more the UK and after five and half years we can control even more of our fishing waters. Thats will benefit our fishermans but we also need to sort how far the EU fishing industry can come to the UK border from 6 miles currently to at least 10 or 12 miles. Leaving the EU common fishing policy will be better for UK fishing industry

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I think we are some time away from any campaign to rejoin gaining any real traction. Whilst it seems there is a majority to rejoin from polling I imagine most voters who are not passionate about the issue wanting avoid a repeat of the last 4 years at any cost.

What I think is much more likely is that over time there will be moves to expand the current very thin deal into a closer working relationship, ironing out the inevitable frustrations that will crop up. I think this will happen whichever main party is in power. And, apart from the arch Brexiteers moves like that will have broad political support.

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9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jbiz, I have told you my 5 reasons for choosing to vote to leave the EU. 

1. The UK to bring in his own immigration system and the Australia style one based on the skills we need in the country at the time. 

2. Our ability to negotiate our own trade deals and not part of a bloc with the EU. Trade deals with Australia, New Zealand and India for example

3.  regain our own fishing waters, 

4. Grow our own economy without the EU interference and EU laws. Plus we will never join the Euro. IMO the worst thing Spain did was join the Euro. 

5. not sending Billions to the EU and to Brussels 

 

Fishing being one that we can catch more the UK and after five and half years we can control even more of our fishing waters. Thats will benefit our fishermans but we also need to sort how far the EU fishing industry can come to the UK border from 6 miles currently to at least 10 or 12 miles. Leaving the EU common fishing policy will be better for UK fishing industry

If you have marketable skills why would you choose to come here? A country which has turned its back on international cooperation in many fields with its nearest neighbours. Id be looking for a country where the government are not a joke, a pack of scoundrels and liars. After all, you could come to settle here, put down roots, bring your kids up here and find yourselves on the brink of being deported .

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Just to avoid any confusion we had a referendum in the 1970's to join the EC ( European Community ). Which changed its name to the EU .By someone called Ted Heath.

The EU and European citizenship were established when the Maastricht Treaty came into force in 1993.[19] The EU traces its origins to the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), established, respectively, by the 1951 Treaty of Paris and 1957 Treaty of Rome. The original members of what came to be known as the European Communities were the Inner Six: Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany. The Communities and their successors have grown in size by the accession of new member states and in power by the addition of policy areas to their remit. The latest major amendment to the constitutional basis of the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon, came into force in 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

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12 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Dont waste your breath. Chaddy doesn't want to live or work anywhere else, so nor should the rest of us. 

Gumboots, You can keep having a go if you want but its yourself you want to prevent Democracy from happening after open and free referendum vote. Abit like the 150 republicans congressman trying to prevent Joe Biden election college win in USA. Very undemocratic

6 minutes ago, JBiz said:

It’s also the same for bringing nurses and other professionals into this country.

Nursing particularly - hopefully we don’t have any scenarios where our NHS is under immense strain from a pandemi.... oh...

We have a immigration system thats will allow Nurses and Doctors into the UK as that its the bonus of Skills based Immigration system. Allow us the Skills immigration we need. The Australia system seems to work for them so why not us.  

Also over 4 million EU nationals have applied for UK’s EU Settlement Scheme. As per the EU Settlement Scheme statistics what was recently updated on October 8, 2020/. The total number of applications received by the UK Home Office up to September 30, 2020 was 4,061,900.

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3 minutes ago, gumboots said:

If you have marketable skills why would you choose to come here? A country which has turned its back on international cooperation in many fields with its nearest neighbours. Id be looking for a country where the government are not a joke, a pack of scoundrels and liars. After all, you could come to settle here, put down roots, bring your kids up here and find yourselves on the brink of being deported .

well over 4 million EU nationals have applied for UK’s EU Settlement Scheme. Which I believe the UK has the 2nd biggest of EU citizens after Germany in their country. 

5th Biggest economy in the world and ahead of France and Germany. 

No one is being deported if you have come legally. So who are these people who are on the brink of being deported then? Please can post who? Thanks in advance 

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jbiz, I have told you my 5 reasons for choosing to vote to leave the EU. 

1. The UK to bring in his own immigration system and the Australia style one based on the skills we need in the country at the time. 

2. Our ability to negotiate our own trade deals and not part of a bloc with the EU. Trade deals with Australia, New Zealand and India for example

3.  regain our own fishing waters, 

4. Grow our own economy without the EU interference and EU laws. Plus we will never join the Euro. IMO the worst thing Spain did was join the Euro. 

5. not sending Billions to the EU and to Brussels 

 

Fishing being one that we can catch more the UK and after five and half years we can control even more of our fishing waters. Thats will benefit our fishermans but we also need to sort how far the EU fishing industry can come to the UK border from 6 miles currently to at least 10 or 12 miles. Leaving the EU common fishing policy will be better for UK fishing industry

1. Australian immigration system - Boris Johnson quote. No meat on the bone, no explanation of the current rules that need change. Just a vague slogan. Like moon shot, stay alert, get Brexit done etc.

2. David Davis - “easiest trading deals in history” to follow brexit. We also already had agreements alongside the EU. Again - slogan, designed to convince people it’ll be better to change without substance

3. Farage and his erection for fishing (which is less than 1% of our GDP btw)

it’s a complete red herring.

4. Eu interference in laws was Ann Widdicombe ERG position. Nobody every explained the laws they “couldn’t make” as ministers, I wonder why?

5. Billions to Brussels yet still completely ignorant of what comes back 

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