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I didn't really want to get involved in this thread again, as emotions are very high, but I can't stand by and continue to be abused without putting my side across.  I'll try and quantify my view

Simply put, without the NHS: I'd never have been born (I'm an IVF baby). I'd have died in the womb (as did the triplets I was supposed to be part of). I'd have died at some point immedi

And I’m going to have a Spanish beer from a Belgian glass, wearing an Italian band t-shirt ordered from a German website, and listening to some Bulgarian europop. You and the rest can stick Brexi

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Just now, JBiz said:

Australian immigration system

wanted this immigration system for the last 15 years. So dont need a quote or slogan. The skills points based immigration system is law now and was past by Parliament last year

Just now, JBiz said:

David Davis - “easiest trading deals in history” to follow brexit. We also already had agreements alongside the EU. Again - slogan, designed to convince people it’ll be better to change without substance

wasn't it Liam Fox? 

We have negotiated a number of trade deals around the world and much more to come. 

 

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5 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Twaddle Chaddy. Ive never said for one moment I want to prevent democracy. 

Your quote

"I just think its unnecessary and I hope, if we had been able to prevent our leaving the EU,"

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

wanted this immigration system for the last 15 years. So dont need a quote or slogan. The skills points based immigration system is law now and was past by Parliament last year

wasn't it Liam Fox? 

We have negotiated a number of trade deals around the world and much more to come. 

 

You keep saying Australian Immigration system.

Are you a puppet or what?

You have no idea what the difference between that and our previous one.

You haven’t cared about this for fifteen years, that’s a bare faced lie.

 

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2 minutes ago, JBiz said:

You keep saying Australian Immigration system.

Are you a puppet or what?

You have no idea what the difference between that and our previous one.

You haven’t cared about this for fifteen years, that’s a bare faced lie.

 

Get over it! Ha!

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Just now, iacok said:

Get over it! Ha!

Another slogan buyer I guess? 
 

Are you here to explain one single benefit I’ll get from Brexit?

So far, according to @Gavand @chaddyrovers I’ll be able to buy fishfingers cheaper in the next 5 years.

 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Your quote

"I just think its unnecessary and I hope, if we had been able to prevent our leaving the EU,"

If we had been able to... we weren't because Parliament voted it through and I wouldn't have wanted to stop that. I do think its all been a totally unnecessary exercise in money wasting over something I never really thought was broken. We could have been moving forward for the last few years, not messing about, but I never once said, Let's ignore how people voted. A vote on whether we still wanted it after 4 years of change in our country's demographics, and a clearer picture of how difficult a deal was, would in my opinion have been a good idea, but thats democracy in action, not thwarting democracy.

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1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

But Farage wanted another referendum if Remain won...

 

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

You just repeat Farage and his cronies lies.

 

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Instead we've chosen to listen to, and be led by, hypocritical charlatans like Farage....

 

1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

 that would not have been the end of it and nigel Farage said so before the referendum.

 

53 minutes ago, windymiller7 said:

Once we add in the Farage Fuckwits....

Look, it's 1st Jan 2021, and some people are going to be pretty angry for obvious reasons. I get that, I really do.

But one thing I'd like to politely point out is that this attachment to Farage is really missing the point IMO.

After half a decade surely people don't believe that Brexit happened because of Farage and his band of merry followers.  I would surprised if he even has a million followers in this Country, and yes, most of them probably are racists in my view. (His party got what? 600k votes in last election?)

To focus on him is to ignore the potential reasons of about 15 million people, who quite likely loathe NF, and all he stands for, as much as the next person. Certainly that's my experience. 

And yet they still voted Leave. Surely trying to understand their motives and reasons is more beneficial and productive than focusing on a group we all know is a lost cause. 

Before anyone comes back at me for the answer, I don't speak for 10-15 million people and have made my views clear in the past. Just saying, moving forward if we want to cause less division why not concentrate on the wheat and ignore the chaff, it's a useless byproduct that just needs chucked in the bin.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not calling out the individual posters quoted as I'm aware some didn't say it in that context, just that his name is still constantly attached to the discussion seems off the mark, regardless of his face being at the start of it all. Blurred lines and all that. 

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1 minute ago, Silas said:

 

 

 

 

Look, it's 1st Jan 2021, and some people are going to be pretty angry for obvious reasons. I get that, I really do.

But one thing I'd like to politely point out is that this attachment to Farage is really missing the point IMO.

After half a decade surely people don't believe that Brexit happened because of Farage and his band of merry followers.  I would surprised if he even has a million followers in this Country, and yes, most of them probably are racists in my view. (His party got what? 600k votes in last election?)

To focus on him is to ignore the potential reasons of about 15 million people, who quite likely loathe NF, and all he stands for, as much as the next person. Certainly that's my experience. 

And yet they still voted Leave. Surely trying to understand their motives and reasons is more beneficial and productive than focusing on a group we all know is a lost cause. 

Before anyone comes back at me for the answer, I don't speak for 10-15 million people and have made my views clear in the past. Just saying, moving forward if we want to cause less division why not concentrate on the wheat and ignore the chaff, it's a useless byproduct that just needs chucked in the bin.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not calling out the individual posters quoted as I'm aware some didn't say it in that context, just that his name is still constantly attached to the discussion seems off the mark, regardless of his face being at the start of it all. Blurred lines and all that. 

Decent post. Ta

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40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jbiz, I have told you my 5 reasons for choosing to vote to leave the EU. 

1. The UK to bring in his own immigration system and the Australia style one based on the skills we need in the country at the time. 

2. Our ability to negotiate our own trade deals and not part of a bloc with the EU. Trade deals with Australia, New Zealand and India for example

3.  regain our own fishing waters, 

4. Grow our own economy without the EU interference and EU laws. Plus we will never join the Euro. IMO the worst thing Spain did was join the Euro. 

5. not sending Billions to the EU and to Brussels 

 

Fishing being one that we can catch more the UK and after five and half years we can control even more of our fishing waters. Thats will benefit our fishermans but we also need to sort how far the EU fishing industry can come to the UK border from 6 miles currently to at least 10 or 12 miles. Leaving the EU common fishing policy will be better for UK fishing industry

I'm fairly sure I replied the last time you posted your reasons but just to reiterate a couple of points. 

1. Wy do you want a new immigration system? Is it because you want fewer people to come into the UK from other countries? If so, whatever the new system is, it isn't working. Net immigration into the UK was over 300K in 19/20, just as high as it has been in recent years. the only difference is that immigration from EU countries is falling, as people are put off by plans to make things more difficult after Brexit. But immigration from elsewhere has increased to make up the shortfall. So there's no net change - it's just that new immigrants are somewhat darker skinned than a few years ago.

2. I'm sure we will get some form of trade deal with the likes of Australia and New Zealand, but these are tiny deals. A good deal with India would be significant but there is absolutely no chance of getting one unless we loosen the ability of Indian citizens to come to the UK, which would be in direct contradiction of point 1.

3. As others have pointed out fishing is neither here nor there to the UK economy, although it seems to have become totemic for Brexiteers. The deal negotiated seems to have been attacked by most fishermen, so that's presumably a failure anyway. Luckily I like eating mackerel and herring - I had a rollmop for lunch today.

4. I'll ask this question again as I don't think anyone has managed to answer it in the last 4.5 years. Name me an EU law that you want to repeal.

5. Again others have pointed out that you need to look at the net figures and not those written on the side of a bus. In any event I think we are now just about up to having spent the same amount on the Brexit process as we have ever sent to the EU. And it's only Day 1 of the brave new world.

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Instead of voting 4 years ago without knowing what was in store properly after we left i would have preferred to have been able to vote now with a this is what we have now and this is the deal we have if we leave,vote yes or no to leaving now.I know that was probably wanting too much but i'm guessing most people voting to leave 4 years ago didnt really know what they would be getting if we left.

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13 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Another slogan buyer I guess? 
 

Are you here to explain one single benefit I’ll get from Brexit?

So far, according to @Gavand @chaddyrovers I’ll be able to buy fishfingers cheaper in the next 5 years.

 

Will fish and chips from the chippy be cheaper now we get to catch more of our own fish? 😃

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19 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Another slogan buyer I guess? 
 

Are you here to explain one single benefit I’ll get from Brexit?

So far, according to @Gavand @chaddyrovers I’ll be able to buy fishfingers cheaper in the next 5 years.

 

You have been given a number of benefits, you don't like the answers, so why bother asking the question?

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2 minutes ago, Gav said:

You have been given a number of benefits, you don't like the answers, so why bother asking the question?

I have one;

Cheaper fish within five years.

Changes that don’t help me within five years;

Right to work, travel and live in europe

Mass emigration of skilled professionals from uk

Less jobs in uk

Gav, I am as open minded as anyone in respect to accepting potential improvements - yet there are seemingly none bar the imaginary “fish” bonanza.

 

 

 

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  • Moderation Lead

Hi Everyone,

Not sure if it’s a combination of hangovers of being annoyed, but the way we are speaking to each other is falling short of the standards we expect on here.

Any more and you’ll be having a break from the forum. Please don’t say you weren’t warned.

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Just now, iacok said:

Most of your comments are quite frankly ludicrous

Mass emigration of skilled professionals. Complete and utter desperate bullshit! 

22,000 EU nationals working in NHS left since 2016.

This year we had to re-recruit 5000 retired NHS professionals to help with covid.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I have one;

Cheaper fish within five years.

Changes that don’t help me within five years;

Right to work, travel and live in europe

Mass emigration of skilled professionals from uk

Less jobs in uk

Gav, I am as open minded as anyone in respect to accepting potential improvements - yet there are seemingly none bar the imaginary “fish” bonanza.

There isn’t a mass emigration happening though. 
And with respect, it is only you who keeps going on about cheaper fish. I haven’t read anybody else saying that. You can’t keep throwing false benefits and drawbacks to Brexit to prove a point. 
 

A lot of the benefits of Brexit are in the fact we are no longer in the harmonisation process the EU is going through. It is being pushed by the big states and it isn’t right. We are now free from the jurisdiction of the ECJ and the trade between us and them independently arbitrated. It is odd to see people moan about this because it is the same process which happens for every trade deal with competition clauses in them. 
 

Leaving this union which seeks to further intertwine life and economies is seen by some as taking back control of our own path. You may not see it that way but the whole point of Brexit became that. Fishing was just another industry in the U.K. that wanted to benefit from it. 
 

So by no longer “harmonising” (not as nice as it sounds), removing the ECJ/Commissions authority, removing the bureaucracy of the Union to enable quicker policy change, the points based immigration system (which has happened, not a catchphrase and does NOT stop doctors and nurses coming), creating the biggest trade deal ever made which other countries have openly said betters theirs and severs economic ties with a Union that is basically propping up failed states are all parts of the many benefits of Brexit. 
 

There are consequences of course, but you can’t keep saying there are no good things come of it just because you disagree with them whilst continuing to ask over and over for them to be spelt out to you. I’ve seen them said before several times over. 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Fishing being one that we can catch more the UK and after five and half years we can control even more of our fishing waters. Thats will benefit our fishermans but we also need to sort how far the EU fishing industry can come to the UK border from 6 miles currently to at least 10 or 12 miles. Leaving the EU common fishing policy will be better for UK fishing industry

It’s like you never see beyond what you want to believe Chaddy.

yes, after 5.5yrs our fishermen will be able to catch more fish if they choose to. The bit that you didn’t want to see was that if the U.K. do up their quota, the EU can place tariffs on the U.K. fishing industry and make it impossible to sell those fish.

The EU are therefore in total control of our fishing. The EU will still fish in U.K. waters and they have the power to stop us selling into the EU.

Edited by den
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19 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

There isn’t a mass emigration happening though. 
And with respect, it is only you who keeps going on about cheaper fish. I haven’t read anybody else saying that. You can’t keep throwing false benefits and drawbacks to Brexit to prove a point. 
 

A lot of the benefits of Brexit are in the fact we are no longer in the harmonisation process the EU is going through. It is being pushed by the big states and it isn’t right. We are now free from the jurisdiction of the ECJ and the trade between us and them independently arbitrated. It is odd to see people moan about this because it is the same process which happens for every trade deal with competition clauses in them. 
 

Leaving this union which seeks to further intertwine life and economies is seen by some as taking back control of our own path. You may not see it that way but the whole point of Brexit became that. Fishing was just another industry in the U.K. that wanted to benefit from it. 
 

So by no longer “harmonising” (not as nice as it sounds), removing the ECJ/Commissions authority, removing the bureaucracy of the Union to enable quicker policy change, the points based immigration system (which has happened, not a catchphrase and does NOT stop doctors and nurses coming), creating the biggest trade deal ever made which other countries have openly said betters theirs and severs economic ties with a Union that is basically propping up failed states are all parts of the many benefits of Brexit. 
 

There are consequences of course, but you can’t keep saying there are no good things come of it just because you disagree with them whilst continuing to ask over and over for them to be spelt out to you. I’ve seen them said before several times over. 

Only tangible benefit anyone has come up with that directly impacts the “average person” is cheaper fish.

Thats it. There’s no more. It’s not me ignoring examples.

There are none. At least, nobody here has specifically mentioned, that aren’t simply things that I “should” feel better about - like “we have more control”...


Immigration rules aren’t going to improve my existence. The chances that I, you or Chaddy fully understand the differences in that specific change are also remote. Australia has sever geopolitical differences, and merely stamping our own as “Australian style system” is typically vague, the standard Cummings have brought this government to.

To suggest it’s a benefit is ridiculous. At best it keeps jobs and professionals here, at worst it prevents that. I’m not saying you don’t understand this Dreams; but many views on immigration seem to ignore the difference between legal and illegal movement to the uk.

Opting out of a trading block isn’t going to make it any further of a trip if you want to make it the UK.

Opting out of harmonisation of rules between countries, you say is a benefit for because we have autonomy to reject EU rules. You’re talking as if the people in this country want that freedom to benefit me and you - that’s head in sand tackle. As the Brexit witch Widdicombe says, ministers will have freedom beyond the EUs standards and rules, yet only the most blindly optimistic could believe this is for anyone but making things easier for their mates.
 

 

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13 minutes ago, iacok said:

Re fish Good negotiation  ploy.

We are out with a very good overall deal . Let's look forward.

Schaeffler, Honda, Nissan, Jaguar all taken thousands of jobs from the UK already.

Im sure we can look forward to all those skilled technicians in those jobs starting their own fisheries.

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

There isn’t a mass emigration happening though. 
And with respect, it is only you who keeps going on about cheaper fish. I haven’t read anybody else saying that. You can’t keep throwing false benefits and drawbacks to Brexit to prove a point. 
 

A lot of the benefits of Brexit are in the fact we are no longer in the harmonisation process the EU is going through. It is being pushed by the big states and it isn’t right. We are now free from the jurisdiction of the ECJ and the trade between us and them independently arbitrated. It is odd to see people moan about this because it is the same process which happens for every trade deal with competition clauses in them. 
 

Leaving this union which seeks to further intertwine life and economies is seen by some as taking back control of our own path. You may not see it that way but the whole point of Brexit became that. Fishing was just another industry in the U.K. that wanted to benefit from it. 
 

So by no longer “harmonising” (not as nice as it sounds), removing the ECJ/Commissions authority, removing the bureaucracy of the Union to enable quicker policy change, the points based immigration system (which has happened, not a catchphrase and does NOT stop doctors and nurses coming), creating the biggest trade deal ever made which other countries have openly said betters theirs and severs economic ties with a Union that is basically propping up failed states are all parts of the many benefits of Brexit. 
 

There are consequences of course, but you can’t keep saying there are no good things come of it just because you disagree with them whilst continuing to ask over and over for them to be spelt out to you. I’ve seen them said before several times over. 

It might not actually stop Doctors and nurses coming here but it's creating an atomosphere were many will be disinclined to move to a country that only wants them on sufference as second class citizens. There are plenty of other countries that will welcome them with open arms.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

wanted this immigration system for the last 15 years. So dont need a quote or slogan. The skills points based immigration system is law now and was past by Parliament last year

wasn't it Liam Fox? 

We have negotiated a number of trade deals around the world and much more to come. 

 

All worse than the trade deals we had as member of EU

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