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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Eurovision is political and was interesting for how the UK (or to be more accurate, England) is now viewed across Europe.

The UK getting nul points was the clearest signal to the country that Europe could deliver. It wasn't the song, which was bland, inoffensive and worthy of a mid-table position. There were many worse

The point is that because of Brexit the English are now seen as pariahs, and rightly so. No one was going to vote for us.

So much for the much-vaunted political soft power arising from being outside EU membership. And so much for a profoundly racist border policy now being enacted by the English nationalist government

The English need to get used to being treated with the deserved hostility such things provoke.

What a load of tosh

The Eurovision voting is not a sign of how the European hates us

The German, Spanish and Dutch also scored zero in the public polling, so are they hated too?

Meanwhile the Israelis did score public votes. So I guess the Europeans hate social democratic countries and prefer countries that bomb and persecute innocent minorities?

Truth is, the bloke just wasn’t that good. 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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9 minutes ago, 47er said:

You're thinking the same as me. I know we have a big problem with meat from the US but I thought standards in Australia were much the same as GB? Apart from live animal exports that is---deplorable, won't have a bar of that.

How much live exports does Aus do to the UK?

Live exports to other countries, yep, but at their request, and yep, a lot of Aussies find it deplorable too.

Remember, we've never had "mad Cow", such is our determination to keep our herd healthy.

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I still cant believe that the BBC shows this rubbish once a year for 4 hours

Oh, it's such an injustice, you might have to watch another channel!😆

Didn't you write to the BBC about them planning to not play Rule Britannia at the proms a couple of years ago?

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17 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

What a load of tosh

The Eurovision voting is not a sign of how the European hates us

Truth is, the bloke just wasn’t that good. 

The song was fine; no worse or better than many others and certainly not deserving of nul points

Eurovision has always been a proxy for European politics, and in our case the reduced status of the UK. The issue is real and one very definitely reflected in both jury and popular votes.

I also think it entirely appropriate to take note of it.

Do you like feeling disliked?

 

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6 minutes ago, dave birch said:

How much live exports does Aus do to the UK?

Live exports to other countries, yep, but at their request, and yep, a lot of Aussies find it deplorable too.

Remember, we've never had "mad Cow", such is our determination to keep our herd healthy.

I don't know. I'm just saying if meat exports increase to UK then I hope there's no live exports. I gather the British government intends to ban them from all countries anyway so it may not be an issue. Its certainly a conscience issue for Australia though---utterly despicable.

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12 minutes ago, Dreyski said:

Oh, it's such an injustice, you might have to watch another channel!😆

Didn't you write to the BBC about them planning to not play Rule Britannia at the proms a couple of years ago?

I did. I watched the Swansea Barnsley match followed by a movie. I am no interested in watching Eurovision anymore. 

I did write to the BBC last year about it and got it change and Rule Britannia was played. 

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

The song was fine; no worse or better than many others and certainly not deserving of nul points

Eurovision has always been a proxy for European politics, and in our case the reduced status of the UK. The issue is real and one very definitely reflected in both jury and popular votes.

I also think it entirely appropriate to take note of it.

Do you like feeling disliked?

 

Nope. Must try harder Jim. I am sure that's not the first or last time you'll hear those words.

The song and its production in relative terms to Eurovision was poor. It was vanilla and the staging was just bland. A perfectly forgettable performance.

Nations like Holland have in the past struggled to even qualify (facing 10 years out I think?) but invested a lot of money in selecting their act with trials and rehearsals and public polling all considered. In the UK we have an insular selection process that has seen us churn out bad act after bad act. You liking the song doesn't make it fine because you are frankly out of touch.

In which case the Spanish, German and Dutch must be wondering what they have done wrong if this is a proxy for European politics!!! They received absolutely nothing from the public. The jury votes are entirely independent and chosen by song, act, theatrics and delivery, all of which Mr Newman was crap at. If it is entirely appropriate to take note then we must surely be pressuring for change in German, Spanish and Dutch politics because it isn't working. Whereas the Israeli political norm clearly does resonate with the European public given it got some public votes. Same with Russia.

I honestly don't get the impression we are disliked. At least not by people of my generation. I am very blessed to have friends continent wide from my days of travelling and truthfully no one really gives a crap. It is only really the "Brexit generation" that care either way these days. Most of us get together whether it be festivals, travelling or holidays and there's nowhere near the sense of 'caution' between different nationalities that I'd hear from my grandparents or even parents. Honestly, a lot of these political problems are thrust upon us by the generation that perpetuates them. When that generation disappears so will some of these issues. That goes for NI, Scotland, Brexit or whatever. We don't care. The younger generation see a very real problem in the climate but it is set aside for bollocks nationalistic arguments by a generation that has done nothing but consume and corrupt.

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22 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't know. I'm just saying if meat exports increase to UK then I hope there's no live exports. I gather the British government intends to ban them from all countries anyway so it may not be an issue. Its certainly a conscience issue for Australia though---utterly despicable.

Agree entirely, as do the majority here.

Trouble is, politics and money speaks. (politics meaning trading partners want live imports).

A similar analogy would be the UK exporting arms to countries.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I did write to the BBC last year about it and got it change and Rule Britannia was played. 

Only 2 years late, but that's not my point. Around eight million people in this country link disagreed with you on Saturday.

Whether we perform in the future or not (and I'm torn on that) we should continue to show it.

Otherwise we might have missed Serbia 😃

 

external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpg

Edited by Dreyski
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/24/fewer-bigger-more-intensive-eu-vows-to-stem-drastic-loss-of-small-farms

On the subject of farming here is a damning indictment on the EU CAP. The transformation of European farming has been disastrous and once again the slow-to-move European Union have missed the point entirely.

In this very thread the discussion around imports / exports does not focus on the climate impact of exporting huge quantities of beef, which has already had a huge carbon footprint, but on the quality of the meat on arrival. The best way to not eat poor quality meat is to source locally from a farm you trust. These big industrial farming methods are taking that accountability away. It is genuinely amazing to me that some folk will buy Australian meat just because it is stamped with a quality control sticker. At the end of the day, this meat was farmed thousands of miles away, and you have no idea what has happened to bring it to your plate.

This is once again a generation that is completely missing the point. The focus on exporting meat is far wide of the mark. We should be looking at reducing our red meat consumption - the public health benefits as well as the environmental impacts would be huge - not increasing it via subsidies and promoting exports.

The fact that countries cannot produce enough food for its population should worry people. I understand that climate plays a role in certain food goods but should not come into it for your meat and dairy industry at all. 

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1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

The song was fine; no worse or better than many others and certainly not deserving of nul points

Eurovision has always been a proxy for European politics, and in our case the reduced status of the UK. The issue is real and one very definitely reflected in both jury and popular votes.

I also think it entirely appropriate to take note of it.

Do you like feeling disliked?

 

Tbf it was a medicore song, performed very badly with poor staging. I couldn't argue with 0. I agree that the jury vote is based on politics to a degree but the public vote tends to be a bit more based on the act / performance. I can't argue at all with UK coming last

 

But then again maybe I'm not the best judge as I had Germany down as the outright winners. Best song of the night. 

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Dreams,

Many years ago, round about the time that the UK cast Australia and New Zealand adrift, it was said that those two countries could put a steak or lamb chop on your plate cheaper than your own farmers.

Money talks.

Without doubt, the cost (in ecological terms) is greater, but the end of the day, it's cash in the consumers pocket that will make the decision.

Money Talks

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1 minute ago, dave birch said:

Dreams,

Many years ago, round about the time that the UK cast Australia and New Zealand adrift, it was said that those two countries could put a steak or lamb chop on your plate cheaper than your own farmers.

Money talks.

Without doubt, the cost (in ecological terms) is greater, but the end of the day, it's cash in the consumers pocket that will make the decision.

Money Talks

Which is a sad indictment of where we are as people.

If the arguments around the importing / exporting of produce that can be very easily produced in your own nation are still centred around pounds and pence then we will never get anywhere.

I get that there will be a market for things like New Zealand Lamb but surely this pandemic has taught us that a global supply chain can fracture very easily. Fundamentally we should be looking at increasing our own capacity to feed ourselves and save imported meats as niche items on the supermarket shelves. There as a luxury and not as a vital part of our food source.

Only certain individuals are benefitting from this clamour for global free trade in respect of food. It is an outdated view and one that needs to be modernised. First thing is first, we should be asking our population to stop eating as much meat and not doing all we can to reduce the price of it. 

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53 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Nope. Must try harder Jim. I am sure that's not the first or last time you'll hear those words.

The song and its production in relative terms to Eurovision was poor. It was vanilla and the staging was just bland. A perfectly forgettable performance.

Nations like Holland have in the past struggled to even qualify (facing 10 years out I think?) but invested a lot of money in selecting their act with trials and rehearsals and public polling all considered. In the UK we have an insular selection process that has seen us churn out bad act after bad act. You liking the song doesn't make it fine because you are frankly out of touch.

In which case the Spanish, German and Dutch must be wondering what they have done wrong if this is a proxy for European politics!!! They received absolutely nothing from the public. The jury votes are entirely independent and chosen by song, act, theatrics and delivery, all of which Mr Newman was crap at. If it is entirely appropriate to take note then we must surely be pressuring for change in German, Spanish and Dutch politics because it isn't working. Whereas the Israeli political norm clearly does resonate with the European public given it got some public votes. Same with Russia.

I honestly don't get the impression we are disliked. At least not by people of my generation. I am very blessed to have friends continent wide from my days of travelling and truthfully no one really gives a crap. It is only really the "Brexit generation" that care either way these days. Most of us get together whether it be festivals, travelling or holidays and there's nowhere near the sense of 'caution' between different nationalities that I'd hear from my grandparents or even parents. Honestly, a lot of these political problems are thrust upon us by the generation that perpetuates them. When that generation disappears so will some of these issues. That goes for NI, Scotland, Brexit or whatever. We don't care. The younger generation see a very real problem in the climate but it is set aside for bollocks nationalistic arguments by a generation that has done nothing but consume and corrupt.

You're making it up again.....you've been told that many times before. .

I didn't say I liked the song, only that it wasn't bad enough to get zero points and certainly as good as many others. As it happens, in our group 2 of us had it near the top and others had it near the bottom. Each to their own

In reality whoever submits the British entrant treats the spectacle as the pantomime it is and finds someone able to play the part of a villain for everyone to hiss at. Like it or not because of Brexit we're the villains at the moment, but that still doesn't stop Eurovision being great entertainment!!

The racism of our immigration policy receives widespread publicity throughout Europe and, alone, merits our status as a pariah state.

Almost half the English electorate appears very happy with that and sadly, I do not believe that the advent of the economic realities of Brexit will do anything other than redouble the English nationalism that underpins it. T

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33 minutes ago, Dreyski said:

Only 2 years late, but that's not my point. Around eight million people in this country link disagreed with you on Saturday.

If people want to watch it that's fine by me. Years ago I used to watch it but no longer interested. Have plenty of different options and channels to watch. So I will just change the channel or the App. 

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5 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

You're making it up again.....you've been told that many times before. .

I didn't say I liked the song, only that it wasn't bad enough to get zero points and certainly as good as many others. As it happens, in our group 2 of us had it near the top and others had it near the bottom. Each to their own

In reality whoever submits the British entrant treats the spectacle as the pantomime it is and finds someone able to play the part of a villain for everyone to hiss at. Like it or not because of Brexit we're the villains at the moment, but that still doesn't stop Eurovision being great entertainment!!

The racism of our immigration policy receives widespread publicity throughout Europe and, alone, merits our status as a pariah state.

Almost half the English electorate appears very happy with that and sadly, I do not believe that the advent of the economic realities of Brexit will do anything other than redouble the English nationalism that underpins it. T

Using Eurovision to justify your phobia of all things English is a very strange one to me.

As said, many others nations received 0 from the public votes, because like us they weren't very good. They must be villains by your logic too. You also hold very little respect for the European public given you think they don't consider the Israeli's as villains!! You keep ignoring this point though....I wonder why?!?!

Coincidentally the last time we scored nowt was in 2003, not long after Blair took us into Iraq. So I guess Blair is now in the company of Johnson as making us the "pariah state". Two sides of the same coin and all that. Labour and Tory are no different in reality. Both of them make us shit at Eurovision. 

Or....maybe it is just your Anglophobia getting in the way of your reasoned thought again. 

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

I don't know. I'm just saying if meat exports increase to UK then I hope there's no live exports. I gather the British government intends to ban them from all countries anyway so it may not be an issue. Its certainly a conscience issue for Australia though---utterly despicable.

 

Australia still uses farming practices that would be illegal under current UK laws.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/the-grocer-blog-daily-bread/australia-free-trade-deal-comes-with-same-food-standards-dilemma-as-the-us/645450.article

 

 

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1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Using Eurovision to justify your phobia of all things English is a very strange one to me.

As said, many others nations received 0 from the public votes, because like us they weren't very good. They must be villains by your logic too. You also hold very little respect for the European public given you think they don't consider the Israeli's as villains!! You keep ignoring this point though....I wonder why?!?!

Coincidentally the last time we scored nowt was in 2003, not long after Blair took us into Iraq. So I guess Blair is now in the company of Johnson as making us the "pariah state". Two sides of the same coin and all that. Labour and Tory are no different in reality. Both of them make us shit at Eurovision. 

Or....maybe it is just your Anglophobia getting in the way of your reasoned thought again. 

Pointing out the obvious isn't "Anglophobia"? You're making it up again.... 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Tbf it was a medicore song, performed very badly with poor staging. I couldn't argue with 0. I agree that the jury vote is based on politics to a degree but the public vote tends to be a bit more based on the act / performance. I can't argue at all with UK coming last

It's a strange one; I can see why the public gave it 0 points (poor song, staging, outfit, fitness) but one look at his songwriting credits shows he knows what he's doing, and that none of the juries (supposedly made up of music professionals) gave it any points is a bit baffling.

Or it would be if politics didn't get in the way.

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Using Eurovision to justify your phobia of all things English is a very strange one to me.

As said, many others nations received 0 from the public votes, because like us they weren't very good. They must be villains by your logic too. You also hold very little respect for the European public given you think they don't consider the Israeli's as villains!! You keep ignoring this point though....I wonder why?!?!

Coincidentally the last time we scored nowt was in 2003, not long after Blair took us into Iraq. So I guess Blair is now in the company of Johnson as making us the "pariah state". Two sides of the same coin and all that. Labour and Tory are no different in reality. Both of them make us shit at Eurovision. 

Or....maybe it is just your Anglophobia getting in the way of your reasoned thought again. 

When was the last time we even looked like winning it ? Coming from the nation that has lead Europe in the popular musical field for most of my lifetime our recent record is pretty appalling.

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