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2 hours ago, den said:

Have Brexiteers now sold out U.K. farmers, just as they did the fishermen?

We haven’t yet seen all the details but it appears as though the Aussies will get immediate, tariff free access to our Beef and Lamb market.

Why? What for? Any of you brexiteers want to explain? Did you know you were voting for this?

Labours viewpoint…

https://labour.org.uk/press/australian-government-reveals-the-true-scale-of-tory-sell-out/

The ex trade minister for Australia was on the James O’Brien show today. Despite James attempts to load the questions he was pretty firm in his belief this does not mean the U.K. market will be flooded by Australian meat. They have their own quotas to fill at home before selling abroad. And actually, despite the land mass of Australian farms, the fact no grass grows in the whole of central Australia there really isn’t much surplus supply going around. 
 

However, this does set a precedent that nothing is off the cards. Australia’s main aim is to reduce tariffs for beef. We’ve given them that access to the market tariff free and other countries will be looking and expecting. 
 

One thing you forgot to mention is the excellent opportunity for the freedom of movement generated by this FTA. U.K. travellers will no longer be required to do back-breaking farm / construction work to be granted a working holiday visa, unlike our European counterparts. Let me tell you now - that is a massive win for the young generation and one we will all benefit from. Well done Truss. 

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30 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The ex trade minister for Australia was on the James O’Brien show today. Despite James attempts to load the questions he was pretty firm in his belief this does not mean the U.K. market will be flooded by Australian meat. They have their own quotas to fill at home before selling abroad. And actually, despite the land mass of Australian farms, the fact no grass grows in the whole of central Australia there really isn’t much surplus supply going around. 
 

However, this does set a precedent that nothing is off the cards. Australia’s main aim is to reduce tariffs for beef. We’ve given them that access to the market tariff free and other countries will be looking and expecting. 
 

One thing you forgot to mention is the excellent opportunity for the freedom of movement generated by this FTA. U.K. travellers will no longer be required to do back-breaking farm / construction work to be granted a working holiday visa, unlike our European counterparts. Let me tell you now - that is a massive win for the young generation and one we will all benefit from. Well done Truss. 

British Beef and Lamb farmers?

Food, animal welfare standards?

Why? What does Australia have that we couldn’t get in the EU?

James O’Brien..?

 

Edited by den
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Mark Melatos, associate professor at the University of Sydney, said the Australia agreement was significant for the UK, but a double-edged sword.

“On the one hand, it shows that the UK can conclude bilateral trade agreements post-Brexit, albeit with a very close friend, Australia. This is important for political optics,” he said.

“On the other hand, this deal sets a precedent for later, likely more complicated, deals the UK negotiates. Any concessions granted now to Australia will form a baseline for the start of future negotiations with the US, EU etc,” he added.

So UK farmers sold down the river and the deal opens up the way for hormone injected meat and lower food standards in the UK but UK backpackers don't have to work on Australian farms any more

Yeah, well done the cheese minister Liz Truss. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-trade-deal-with-britain-agreed-2021-06-15/
 

Reuters spelt it out a bit differently. @denI do remember him saying that but he did caveat it at the start that nobody was fully aware of the details yet. We still aren’t. 

You’ve already picked your side though.

In my opinion the market for beef and lamb will grow less and less to the point where you won’t need surplus tariff free beef from Australia. The change is happening and you get the impression the younger generation are even more militant about it.

The Reuters reporting speaks of economic opportunity of tariff free financial exports. That’s something you care about given previous posts. It also accounts for 80% of our exports if I remember correctly?

So, do I think the sacrifice of the (potential) tariff free beef and lamb flooding the market for the potential of free exports the other way? Yeah. Percentage points count (0.1% GDP for fishing was it?) and our exports of financial services triumphs agriculture. 
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/270372/distribution-of-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-united-kingdom/

 

At least there says so 

As for the lower food standards I’ll comment when we know. I would expect food standards are maintained otherwise it is a bad path to go down.

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Absolutely shameless that this Trade Treaty with Australia is being presented as a glimpse into a glorious future!

That is preposterous. Its the opposite--a glimpse into a distant past when so many products came from our former empire duty-free. As youngsters in the 50's and early sixties we were brought up on Australian and New Zealand agricultural products---butter, meat and sugar. 

We abandoned this (and them) to grow our economy by having a free-trade relationship with our nearest neighbours in Europe. That is what was presented to us at the time as the shiny new future!! Our destiny.

Whatever Brexit was about it was not about the economy. That's a huge con. It was about controlling our borders, "taking back control". The economy was never up-front with Leave for obvious reasons.

We'll get new trade treaties of course---negotiating from a position of weakness. (Shudder to think about the American one.)

And in the end we are going to have to look again at our borders, we have a shortage of labour  crisis looming large---in hospitality and health and elsewhere.

There simply aren't enough white people wanting to come in and fill the vacancies.

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Lord Frost in front of a select committee this morning answering questions from mainly Conservative and DUP MP’s about the problems with the NI protocol and the checks on goods between GB and NI. As you would expect from that mix, plenty of criticism of the EU. 
 

Anyone remember vote leave, leave EU and Brexit supporters everywhere arguing that there would be no need for checks at the Irish border because the technology was already available, already being used between the EU and non EU countries? Wasn’t the argument from them that there would absolutely be no checks?

That obviously was a big fat lie. It was just another strand of the lies that came from leavers from the day the referendum was called.
 

It’s the reason why we are here now on NI.

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20 hours ago, den said:

Lord Frost in front of a select committee this morning answering questions from mainly Conservative and DUP MP’s about the problems with the NI protocol and the checks on goods between GB and NI. As you would expect from that mix, plenty of criticism of the EU. 
 

Anyone remember vote leave, leave EU and Brexit supporters everywhere arguing that there would be no need for checks at the Irish border because the technology was already available, already being used between the EU and non EU countries? Wasn’t the argument from them that there would absolutely be no checks?

That obviously was a big fat lie. It was just another strand of the lies that came from leavers from the day the referendum was called.
 

It’s the reason why we are here now on NI.

Yeah but come on Den, who cares? 

The public? the government? Neither seem to from what I can see. A lie and errors only matter if you are held to account, and this lot clearly aren't. Just take a look at certain Tory supporters on here - it's ignored, and if it absolutely has to be addressed (which often it doesn't) then the goal posts are moved so far to make the issue irrelevant. 

Incidentally I think this is why the government is struggling so much with Europe - they have forgotten that some people will actually hold them to account. Must be a nasty shock after the domestic blind eye they receive. 

 

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33 minutes ago, 47er said:

British food and drink exports to EU fall by £2bn in first quarter of 2021

Industry body says analysis of HMRC data shows structural rather than teething problems with Brexit

 

We export over £290bn per year to the EU....and you are moaning over 2bn....over a quarter....so basically 8bn per year out of 290bn...really?

We probably cover that selling to China etc now we can

 

 

.

 

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5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We probably cover that selling to China etc now we can

Nothing stopped us exporting to China as members of the EU. Ask the Germans....it's one of their biggest export markets..... which you knew already.

On our food exports to the EU, the 2021 slump follows on from a similar slump in 2020

Edited by jim mk2
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6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Nothing stopped us exporting to China as members of the EU. Ask the Germans....it's one of their biggest export markets..... which you knew already.

On our food exports to the EU, the 2021 slump follows on from a similar slump in 2020

But on the point 47 was making...2bn really is a drop in the ocean...

I understand you are trying to deflect nut 2bn is nothing on the scale of it.

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23 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We export over £290bn per year to the EU....and you are moaning over 2bn....over a quarter....so basically 8bn per year out of 290bn...really?

We probably cover that selling to China etc now we can

 

 

.

 

I'm presenting the views of the industry body, didn't you notice? You're presenting it as my view. Every time I point out a new adverse story on Brexit, you pop up to say that its only a tiny amount and nothing to worry about. Dn't you think these 2 billions here and there all add up? And they are real, they are industries telling us what's happening to them. Where's the exporters who are raking it in and putting on new staff to cope with demand after Brexit? And this particular 2 billion is recurrent, the industry body is emphatic that this is not teething problems.

Post me the positive stories coming out of Brexit to reassure me--- not hopes or dreams or expectations-----cold hard facts.

The truth is, you were sold a dream and that's what we've got. Worse to come in July.

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

I'm presenting the views of the industry body, didn't you notice? You're presenting it as my view. Every time I point out a new adverse story on Brexit, you pop up to say that its only a tiny amount and nothing to worry about. Dn't you think these 2 billions here and there all add up? And they are real, they are industries telling us what's happening to them. Where's the exporters who are raking it in and putting on new staff to cope with demand after Brexit? And this particular 2 billion is recurrent, the industry body is emphatic that this is not teething problems.

Post me the positive stories coming out of Brexit to reassure me--- not hopes or dreams or expectations-----cold hard facts.

The truth is, you were sold a dream and that's what we've got. Worse to come in July.

I think if everyone had known that the 1st quarter after brexit was only 2bn down out of 65bn of exports to the EU you would have had no argument whatsoever and the vote would have been more 70/30 in favour of leaving.....

Not the cliff edge you lot have been peddling for years....Charlatans and Nay sayers the lot of you.  Pessimism like nothing else.

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16 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I think if everyone had known that the 1st quarter after brexit was only 2bn down out of 65bn of exports to the EU

Its much more down in the finance sector where France is now excelling us in what was our previous undisputed position

You keep on going on about pessimism, what's the use of the pointless optimism you Leavers resort to?

I asked you to tell me where Brexit has achieved anything concrete and you can't. Which exporters are doing better as a result of Brexit?

 

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13 minutes ago, 47er said:

Its much more down in the finance sector where France is now excelling us in what was our previous undisputed position

You keep on going on about pessimism, what's the use of the pointless optimism you Leavers resort to?

I asked you to tell me where Brexit has achieved anything concrete and you can't. Which exporters are doing better as a result of Brexit?

 

I'm just responding to the report you put up here that was telling us 2bn etc....when you look at that figure it isn't too bad at all if we have replaced that 2bn and possibly more with trade from other countries.  I don't see how you can use this to support your argument.

What hasn't happened is the total cliff edge we were supposed to fall off like you were saying and all those like you.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm just responding to the report you put up here that was telling us 2bn etc....when you look at that figure it isn't too bad at all if we have replaced that 2bn and possibly more with trade from other countries.  I don't see how you can use this to support your argument.

What hasn't happened is the total cliff edge we were supposed to fall off like you were saying and all those like you.

 

 

I never used the term "cliff edge at all" and the 2 bn lost is in a specific industry, it isn't everything we've lost.

Why is it a virtue to "replace" it by trade with other countries? We should add to it shouldn't we instead of losing it. In fact the EU is always looking for new trade deals with other countries isn't it and has more clout in negotiations than UK has.

No cliff edge just a slow, sad decline which has already started. That goes for our influence in the world as well.

I've asked you to show me anything concrete (not abstract) Brexit has achieved and you avoided it again, because apart from making life miserable for foreigners and making us even more disliked abroad nothing has been achieved. More and more people are realising it. Maybe the voters of Chesham and Amersham have?

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3 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm just responding to the report you put up here that was telling us 2bn etc....when you look at that figure it isn't too bad at all if we have replaced that 2bn and possibly more with trade from other countries.  I don't see how you can use this to support your argument.

What hasn't happened is the total cliff edge we were supposed to fall off like you were saying and all those like you

 

From the press:

Overall food and drink exports to Ireland fell by 70.8% year on year, to Spain by 63%, Italy 61% and Germany 55%. The HMRC figures show dairy products down more than 90% and exports of cheese down by two-thirds compared with 2020. Whisky fell 32%, chocolate 37% and lamb and mutton 14%.

Please don’t tell me that Brexit does not have a huge cost. And please don’t tell me that these losses can be recovered from new trade deals. That is impossible.

Brexit is a simple act of economic sabotage in pursuit of racist goals. The racist goals can never be justified. The cost is very real. And this can only get worse.

Amersham and Chesham, which voted remain, has taken notice

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Kinel Jim, in the politics thread it was about “tactical voting” whereas in this thread it was about Brexit 

Labours position has been to accept the Brexit referendum 

So, which is it, did Amersham take note or did they tactically vote? 

Or...did they reject the Labour Party? 

You have to pick a side soon because Kier won’t pick it for you 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Lots of factors in play at Amersham, Brexit one of them 

Yep

The factors just depend on what topic you are posting in 

Never mind that Ed Davey said on LBC today that planning reforms was the biggest contributor to the swing 

Jim, who never heard a bad word said about Corbyn on the doorsteps, knows the “factors” better than Ed 

You make a lot of stuff up 

Edited by Dreams of 1995
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26 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Yep

The factors just depend on what topic you are posting in 

Never mind that Ed Davey said on LBC today that planning reforms was the biggest contributor to the swing 

Jim, who never heard a bad word said about Corbyn on the doorsteps, knows the “factors” better than Ed 

You make a lot of stuff up 

 

Local opposition to HS2, anger over the ridiculous planning law changes which will give developers a free hand to do what they like, and Brexit were all factors in the stunning by-election result

The English middle class and the places where it tends to congregate are changing. The way Brexit has revolutionised Conservative politics is accelerating that shift. And now, there are clear signs that the appeal of the Tories is weakening in places they once took for granted.

You do seem to be a very angry person. I feel sorry for you

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The debate on newsnight centred around how red wall seats can no longer be taken for granted by Labour because in many of those areas the population is becoming older (and according to the guy from the FT less educated and voted leave 😀), while in southern areas younger people are coming to the fore - and they are anything but Tory. The point was none of the Parties should take their historic supporters for granted. 
 

Brexit has changed everything. 

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10 minutes ago, den said:

The debate on newsnight centred around how red wall seats can no longer be taken for granted by Labour because in many of those areas the population is becoming older (and according to the guy from the FT less educated and voted leave 😀), while in southern areas younger people are coming to the fore - and they are anything but Tory. The point was none of the Parties should take their historic supporters for granted. 
 

Brexit has changed everything. 

Maybe the future is rosy Den?!!

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