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Rovers' mouth piece - the LT


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I remember a towards end of season game against Charlton circa 2002. We were going well, though not top 6, nice day, we won 1-0 thanks to a Duff goal.

Not many up fom London but there were more than 26,000 on Ewood IIRC. Cannot imagine that now. 

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56 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Nonsense again from Smith, we didn’t ‘lose 10,000 fans between 1995 and relegation in 99’ at all

Our average crowd on relegation was roughly the same as it was in the title winning season. Even in the second tier for two seasons until 2001 we averaged around 20,000. With average crowds back to title winning levels between 2001 and 2003.

Of course it will all be lapped up under the line on the LT website.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16990084.there-is-a-new-rovers-to-support-simon-smith-column/?ref=mr&lp=12

 

I don't mind reading pieces by people I disagree with.

I do object to people who get easily checkable facts wrong and then developing extended arguments.

We all make mistakes but the Simon Smith column is just one big mistake.

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41 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I remember a towards end of season game against Charlton circa 2002. We were going well, though not top 6, nice day, we won 1-0 thanks to a Duff goal.

Not many up fom London but there were more than 26,000 on Ewood IIRC. Cannot imagine that now. 

Er....Oxford Utd ?

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Charlton in 2002/3 was an ordinary game.

Oxford last season was £10 and a promotion to celebrate. Huddersfield with nearly 30,000 (I think) in 2000 was a closer parallel to Oxford.

I keep repeating that it is less than a decade since Rovers' average attendance was over 26,000 repeatedly. 

Edit- I was mistaken, we had two seasons (2009/10 and 2010/11) running at 25,000- see post with the table below.

Edited by philipl
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4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Not the case. Only once, 2009/2010 because of ‘Taking Back Ewood’ cheap STs.

In fact, that was our only average over 25,000 since 2003.

We are both wrong- I should have said 25,000 averages:

2010’s average: 18.484
2014-2015 14.912 Championship/Level 2
2013-2014 14.962 Championship/Level 2
2012-2013 14.997 Championship/Level 2
2011-2012 22.551 Premier League/Level 1
2010-2010 25.000 Premier League/Level 1

2000’s average: 24.019

2009-2010 25.428 Premier League/Level 1
2008-2009 23.479 Premier League/Level 1
2007-2008 23.944  Premier League/Level 1
2006-2007 21.675 Premier League/Level 1
2005-2006 21.015 Premier League/Level 1
2004-2005 22.315 Premier League/Level 1
2003-2004 24.376 Premier League/Level 1
2002-2003 26.225 Premier League/Level 1
2001-2002 25.976 Premier League/Level 1
2000-2001 20.740 Championship/Level 2
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Wasn't that Charlton match a tenner or something or maybe i'm mixing it up with another ?

Seem to think we played them in the second tier and they were being crowned champs and brought up a whopping 800 and the crowd was about 18k but that was normal prices.

Edited by tomphil
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And going back in history courtesy: https://ewoodpark.jimdo.com/attendances-average-attendances-1888-2013/

1990's average: 20.337
1999-2000 19.253 Championship/Level 2
1998-1999 25.764 Premier League/Level 1
1997-1998 25.253 Premier League/Level 1
1996-1997 24.947 Premier League/Level 1
1995-1996 27.552 Premier League/Level 1
1994-1995 25.653 Premier League/Level 1
1993-1994 17.319 Premier League/Level 1
1992-1993 16.247 Premier League/Level 1
1991-1992 13.250 Division 2/Level 2
1990-1991 8.100 Division 2/Level 2
1980's average: 9.003
1989-1990 9.607 Division 2/Level 2
1988-1989 8.864 Division 2/Level 2
1987-1988 9.503 Division 2/Level 2
1986-1987 6.773 Division 2/Level 2
1985-1986 5.826 Division 2/Level 2
1984-1985 9.648  Division 2/Level 2
1983-1984 7.623 Division 2/Level 2
1982-1983 7.353 Division 2/Level 2
1981-1982 8.655 Division 2/Level 2
1980-1981 11.688 Division 2/Level 2
1970's average: 10.038
1979-1980 10.311 Division 3/Level 3
1978-1979 8.640  Division 2/Level 2
1977-1978 12.227 Division 2/Level 2
1976-1977 10.130  Division 2/Level 2
1975-1976 10.489 Division 2/Level 2
1974-1975 12.651 Division 3/Level 3
1973-1974 7.432  Division 3/Level 3
1972-1973 9.214 Division 3/Level 3
1971-1972 8.256 Division 3/Level 3
1970-1971  8.334  Division 2/Level 2
1960's average: 15.380
1969-1970 12.523 Division 2/Level 2
1968-1969 10.617 Division 2/Level 2
1967-1968 13.531 Division 2/Level 2
1966-1967 14.721 Division 2/Level 2
1965-1966 13.513 Division 1/Level 1
1964-1965 16.110 Division 1/Level 1
1963-1964 21.543 Division 1/Level 1
1962-1963 16.001 Division 1/Level 1
1961-1962 15.906 Division 1/Level 1
1960-1961 19.343 Division 1/Level 1
1950's average: 25.096
1959-1960 27.299 Division 1/Level 1
1958-1959 30.544 Division 1/Level 1
1957-1958 22.708 Division 2/Level 2
1956-1957 23.091 Division 2/Level 2
1955-1956 23.001 Division 2/Level 2
1954-1955 26.928 Division 2/Level 2
1953-1954 26.123 Division 2/Level 2
1952-1953 23.157 Division 2/Level 2
1951-1952 23.228 Division 2/Level 2
1950-1951 24.830 Division 2/Level 2
1940's average: 25.055
1949-1950 22.651 Division 2/Level 2
1948-1949 22.421 Division 2/Level 2
1947-1948 27.883 Division 1/Level 1
1946-1947 26.367 Division 1/Level 1
WORLD WAR TWO 1939-1945

 

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Point I was trying to make was the Charlton game was bit of a nothing match against unglamorous opponents yet we still had 26,000 plus on. Club was in a good place under Souness before he went into Col Kurtz mode and I don't know if there were any special offers that day but I doubt it. 

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2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Nonsense again from Smith, we didn’t ‘lose 10,000 fans between 1995 and relegation in 99’ at all

Our average crowd on relegation was roughly the same as it was in the title winning season. Even in the second tier for two seasons until 2001 we averaged around 20,000. With average crowds back to title winning levels between 2001 and 2003.

Of course it will all be lapped up under the line on the LT website.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16990084.there-is-a-new-rovers-to-support-simon-smith-column/?ref=mr&lp=12

 

Difference is Matty you know the truth or if not you spend time researching the facts. The buffoons in the Telegraph have only been on the scene for the last few years and probably don't spend much time researching the truth or go back into the history books.

They're being naughty at the moment. In the absence of any discontent at results and performances they're stirring it up about numbers through the turnstiles. Meanwhile positivity galore in their Stanley columns. Don't recall much doom and gloom around Burnley's gates rarely breaking past 12,000 on their way to promotion or the rows of empty seats in the Premier League yet they're getting well stuck in to crowds at Rovers even though they have risen, albeit not as much as hoped.

 

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12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Nonsense again from Smith, we didn’t ‘lose 10,000 fans between 1995 and relegation in 99’ at all

Our average crowd on relegation was roughly the same as it was in the title winning season. Even in the second tier for two seasons until 2001 we averaged around 20,000. With average crowds back to title winning levels between 2001 and 2003.

Of course it will all be lapped up under the line on the LT website.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16990084.there-is-a-new-rovers-to-support-simon-smith-column/?ref=mr&lp=12

 

I’m quite sure it’s just another opinion - maybe if the owner had built on our championship win instead of letting us slip the other way, maybe we’d have more fans?

I personally don’t agree with him on that, but i certainly do on the impact of the Rao’s. Starting to think Simon Smith ran off with the mrs though tbf, with a few posters wife’s looking at this thread.

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He said we lost 10,000 fans between 1995 and 1999, not that we failed to build on our success post 95. Damn right we messed up the second half of the 90s, but not the point he was making.

His point was the ground is so full of empty seats because we started losing fans from 95 onwards - categorically not true, in fact we had a higher average attendance than 1995 on numerous occasions until 2003 (including the relegation season itself) and again in 2009/2010.

Never met the bloke, he sounds like a committed fan himself, merely pointing out that he either exaggerates or simply spoutes untruths as the basis of his argument most weeks. Use Blue Eyed Boy as a comparison, folk might not always agree with his opinions, but he is a stickler for facts. If you aren’t going to research them, don’t just make them up to help support your piece.

‘Always had crap support have Rovers’, is the kind of shite I’ve often heard and inaccurate articles in the area’s paper just perpetuate such myths.

 

Edited by Mattyblue
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The rudderless period between winning the Premiership and being relegated in 1999 cost Rovers 10,000 fans and the Steve Kean catastrophe 10,000 more.”

I don’t read that as a statistic more a statement of a chunk of support was lost/not built on, in fact I’m quite sure it’s meant to be interpreted as the success wasn’t built on since it’s in reference to building a 30k+ all seater, and it being empty. Just like statistically Kean didn’t lose us 10,000 fans but it felt like it soon after.

If there’s anything I could criticise about this weeks effort it’s; “Seeing the stadium brings back memories of better days and no doubt is not a happy place for some fans to be.”

Poorly worded, I think he missed “a full” before stadium. The final part is just a standard “you” and “your” club sentiment which I agree with but find a tad patronising if I’m honest.

Still - after two articles I feel less inclined to read because of quality, not some particular agenda towards agitating fans.

 

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8 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

You wouldn't?but it quite clearly is. 

I’m not really bothered if people disagree it’s merely an opinion, turning this into “you wouldn’t” argument is hardly surprising when half of my point is many here simply cannot accept alternative opinions- some more vociferously than others judging by this thread.

Whilst a few of you enjoy finding something to froth at the mouth about, I’d prefer my reactions with a hint of tranquility. 

I mean - why on earth would I be utterly bemused at a rounded up statistic used to point out we went from full stadiums in 95 to less than 20k in the first season of the championship?

Especially considering the article is “light hearted” referencing scientists “regenerating” fantastic players of old to bring some fans from those era’s back!

It’s hardly a Henry Winter 5000 word piece on the changing demographics and fan base, is it? It’s not intended to be either - I’m sure you (BB) and other know this well - but what is life without someone or something to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

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But we rarely had a full stadium in 1994/1995, ergo an average crowd of 25,000, actually lower than the relegation season.

Then still 20,000 in the second tier, very respectable, then again averages higher than title winning support once back up in 2001.

Thats not a question of ‘rounding’ up decreasing numbers, but just competely wrong as our crowds actually INCREASED in the PL between 1998 and 2003 to levels higher than 1995.

Now what is correct is that Venky’s have lost us 10,000 ST holders. And for a bit of historical context, crowds also dropped substantially between Souness’ later period from about 2003 until the ‘Taking Back Ewood’ campaign of cheap STs in 2009 - quite apt considering the discussions re crowds, pricing etc going on currently.

I’m boring myself now but the facts are facts and I’m very protective of our reputation when it comes to this stuff and articles like that just don’t help.

Edited by Mattyblue
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10 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’m not really bothered if people disagree it’s merely an opinion, turning this into “you wouldn’t” argument is hardly surprising when half of my point is many here simply cannot accept alternative opinions- some more vociferously than others judging by this thread.

Whilst a few of you enjoy finding something to froth at the mouth about, I’d prefer my reactions with a hint of tranquility. 

I mean - why on earth would I be utterly bemused at a rounded up statistic used to point out we went from full stadiums in 95 to less than 20k in the first season of the championship?

Especially considering the article is “light hearted” referencing scientists “regenerating” fantastic players of old to bring some fans from those era’s back!

It’s hardly a Henry Winter 5000 word piece on the changing demographics and fan base, is it? It’s not intended to be either - I’m sure you (BB) and other know this well - but what is life without someone or something to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

"frothing at the mouth"---gross hyperbole.

Rest of it-----spin .You're shameless.

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25 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’m not really bothered if people disagree it’s merely an opinion, turning this into “you wouldn’t” argument is hardly surprising when half of my point is many here simply cannot accept alternative opinions- some more vociferously than others judging by this thread.

Whilst a few of you enjoy finding something to froth at the mouth about, I’d prefer my reactions with a hint of tranquility. 

I mean - why on earth would I be utterly bemused at a rounded up statistic used to point out we went from full stadiums in 95 to less than 20k in the first season of the championship?

Especially considering the article is “light hearted” referencing scientists “regenerating” fantastic players of old to bring some fans from those era’s back!

It’s hardly a Henry Winter 5000 word piece on the changing demographics and fan base, is it? It’s not intended to be either - I’m sure you (BB) and other know this well - but what is life without someone or something to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

It's not an opinion that his facts are wrong though mate? Fact checking wouldn't even take him a minute on the internet......

Edited by K-Hod
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Club grew very rapidly in a short space of time 92-95 and obviously got to take into account the old Ewood was restricted capacity and still 4/5k in the old DE were for away fans. Never quite understood why they didn't make that half and half at the time because it was half empty most weeks in first Prem season yet rest of ground sold out.

We don't really know how many we could've got then and the whole new Ewood was only finished around when ? 94 is ?  So the growth continued on the back of the title winning success although obviously some crap seasons, managers, players and relegation dented it but Souness restored order and got people believing again until he predictably lost the plot.

They surprisingly dropped again under Hughes despite Bellamy, Savage etc and some good money being spent BUT guess what.....yeah they hiked the price of ST's etc in one big jump thinking it was a good time to do so.

It back fired big time..........

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