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Rashford can play as a winger and he scored 2 goals from there yesterday, so it could certainly be argued that he’s effective there....

Let’s be honest here, irrespective of what any of us think re formations, we’ve played a 4-3-3 for quite some time and especially under Southgate. Unless he completely changes his modus operandi in the friendlies coming up,  then he’ll do the same in the summer it’s safe to assume. Thank God that’s the case as well as it allows us to play to our strengths.

Picking a system then shoehorning players into it was our undoing under previous managers. Imagine being paid millions per annum and thinking it was a good idea to play Paul Scholes or Emile Heskey on the left wing!!

4-3-3, plenty of pace, one defensive midfielder (Dier) and Alli after the season he’s had wouldn’t be an automatic pick. Certainly not over someone like Sterling who’s had his best ever season. 

Not trying to be funny, but how anyone can ignore stats of players playing blindingly is madness, just because they think someone else is better! 

Edited by K-Hod
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He has a couple of lines through the rest of the article On Alf Ramsay: ’He didn’t know the players like Walter Winterbottom, he was a bit naive at first. To be honest, the lads took the pis

Great piece in The Times today talking to England players from 1954 until 2014. Bryan Douglas talks about ‘58 and ‘62. It’s probably behind a paywall, so:      

Bullshit. They were nasty and tried every dirty trick in the book. Got what they deserved - out. 

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16 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Rashford can play as a winger and he scored 2 goals from there yesterday, so it could certainly be argued that he’s effective there....

Let’s be honest here, irrespective of what any of us think re formations, we’ve played a 4-3-3 for quite some time and especially under Southgate. Unless he completely changes his modus operandi in the friendlies coming up,  then he’ll do the same in the summer it’s safe to assume. Thank God that’s the case as well as it allows us to play to our strengths.

 

Southgate said after we qualified we would play 3 at the back from now on and at the world cup

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/england-play-3-back-now-11313967

Like I said before Rashford is a striker and I play him there with Kane. Thats its proper position 

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13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If I was Utd manager Rashford would start every game.

Stats? Means nothing in international football just like it did when we had Owen, Gerrard and Lampard in the side. Did nothing did we? 

I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system. Plan B would be your way..

 

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've already told you my views on clubs stats regarding International football why keep arguing about it? we disagree so move on cos its very boring

No cos the formation suits the players Ive picked and plays them in the proper positions like Rashford and Kane are strikers and Ali is 10 for me  so play them there. Rashford isn't a winger for me and that's opinion. Plus allowed me 3 at the back which I think we need defensively and Stones being the middle man of the back 3. we need to be more solid and proper set up unless we be expose as a back 4 IMO.

Sterling doesn't fit that formation.

Eriksson played Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard in their wrong positions for years. Clown he was that. 

 

The reason that I've been saying that you need to pick a formation that best suits the players you have, is because you said "I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system." which is in my opinion is an incredibly flawed way of thinking, and the reason that weve had to fit all the players you mentioned into the wrong positions, your 2 arguments are totally contradictory to one another.

14 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Rashford can play as a winger and he scored 2 goals from there yesterday, so it could certainly be argued that he’s effective there....

Let’s be honest here, irrespective of what any of us think re formations, we’ve played a 4-3-3 for quite some time and especially under Southgate. Unless he completely changes his modus operandi in the friendlies coming up,  then he’ll do the same in the summer it’s safe to assume. Thank God that’s the case as well as it allows us to play to our strengths.

Picking a system then shoehorning players into it was our undoing under previous managers. Imagine being paid millions per annum and thinking it was a good idea to play Paul Scholes or Emile Heskey on the left wing!!

4-3-3, plenty of pace, one defensive midfielder (Dier) and Alli after the season he’s had wouldn’t be an automatic pick. Certainly not over someone like Sterling who’s had his best ever season. 

Not trying to be funny, but how anyone can ignore stats of players playing blindingly is madness, just because they think someone else is better! 

Totally agree on Rashford, played the vast majority of his games from the left.

Also agree on stats, presumably we will leave Kane out as this ridiculous goalscoring stats are meaningless.

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Kane is the captain and the best striker in the PL. Why wouldnt he start? Score goals, hold up the ball and good leader

Ive already said why I want to play my way. You AREN'T shoehorning any player into a system tho. Just playing in the natural positions. 

Ive picked Rashford and Kane up front. Both are strikers. So not shoehorn in

Ali is a 10. His best position and his natural position. So not shoehorn in 

Wilshere is the playmaker midfielder and Dier defensive midfielder. Their natural roles. So not shoehorn in..

Walker and Rose are attacking fullbacks/wing backs. Natural positions and roles. So not shoehorn in

Stones and I pick Smalling and Cahill. All centre defenders and have played in back 3 during their club career..so not shoehorn in. 

Butland is a keeper so not shoehorn in.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Kane is the captain and the best striker in the PL. Why wouldnt him? Score goals, hold up the ball and good leader

It wasnt a serious suggestion, it was based on the foolishness of saying things like "No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms"

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It wasnt a serious suggestion, it was based on the foolishness of saying things like "No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms"

Based on him as a player and things he does on the pitch. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Based on him as a player and things he does on the pitch. 

For his club?

So his stupidly high goal ratio for Tottenham has NO bearing on his international selection? (Where to be fair hes yet to hit the same heights)

I obviously would start him, just showing you the stupidity of totally discounting club stats, what else is there to base international selection on.

Edited by roversfan99
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9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

For his club?

So his stupidly high goal ratio for Tottenham has NO bearing on his international selection? (Where to be fair hes yet to hit the same heights)

I obviously would start him, just showing you the stupidity of totally discounting club stats, what else is there to base international selection on.

The things he does on the pitch every game he plays in. 

Noticed you not to my shoehorn comments and every player Ive picked fit into the system and not shoehorn as he suggest..how come? Cos your comment was wrong?

 

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3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The things he does on the pitch every game he plays in. 

Noticed you not to my shoehorn comments and every player Ive picked fit into the system and not shoehorn as he suggest..how come? Cos your comment was wrong?

 

For his club!

And because youve since edited your post, I didnt even see that post initially.

To clarify, youve said 2 things that dont make sense to me.

"I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system."

The reason I dont agree with this is because you pick a formation to get the best out of your best players, not the other way round. If you think our best 3 attackers are Rashford, Kane and Alli, then I disagree but your choice of formation is fair enough. It suggests that youve picked the players then a formation to best suit them, which is correct, HOWEVER it then renders the above statement meaningless, because it means that even you dont believe it.

"No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms"

This is a crazy statement, what else do you go off if not club performances? 

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22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

For his club!

And because youve since edited your post, I didnt even see that post initially.

To clarify, youve said 2 things that dont make sense to me.

"I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system."

The reason I dont agree with this is because you pick a formation to get the best out of your best players, not the other way round. If you think our best 3 attackers are Rashford, Kane and Alli, then I disagree but your choice of formation is fair enough. It suggests that youve picked the players then a formation to best suit them, which is correct, HOWEVER it then renders the above statement meaningless, because it means that even you dont believe it.

"No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms"

This is a crazy statement, what else do you go off if not club performances? 

To be fair to Chaddy, the players vs formation is probably the biggest dilemma facing every football manager every weekend around the world.

Certain managers will have a preferred system/formation and will look to get good players to deliver against that system as best they can - I’d suggest Wenger is one. Others will try to get the best out of the players available - Allardyce springs to mind (unless your name is Niko).

The ideal aim would be to recruit to meet the winning system - such as Guardiola. But this obviously requires cash.

On the international scene, no amount of money will help so it probably does need a manager who can get the best out of the players available by finding a system to get the best out of their combined abilities. Ideally with a superstar or two to give them the edge. Square pegs and round holes will undermine manager after manager.

Edited by Stuart
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Sterling is better than Alli and that’s without taking into account their respective seasons. If Sterling wasn’t picked and Alli was for that reason, there would be uproar and rightly so.

If stats at club level mean nothing at international level, then shall we ignore all of Kane’s goals for Spurs? Has anyone got a spare brick wall that I can bang my head against?

Romeo done.

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Just now, K-Hod said:

Sterling is better than Alli and that’s without taking into account their respective seasons. If Sterling wasn’t picked and Alli was for that reason, there would be uproar and rightly so.

If stats at club level mean nothing at international level, then shall we ignore all of Kane’s goals for Spurs? Has anyone got a spare brick wall that I can bang my head against?

Romeo done.

FFS, ive fully explained my reasons for my formation and players picked and in their proper positions. No player is playing out of position. So what you issue now? Cos I dont agree with you?

Ive show you that stats in club football means nothing when it comes to playing international football. Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney never produce in international football did they? Thats best 3 players we had in the past 10 years. We never come close to even getting to semi final have we? 

Also I notice that you didnt comment on the Southgate article saying he going to play 3 at the back in the world cup.  

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5 minutes ago, Stuart said:

To be fair to Chaddy, the players vs formation is probably the biggest dilemma facing every football manager every weekend around the world.

Certain managers will have a preferred system/formation and will look to get good players to deliver against that system as best they can - I’d suggest Wenger is one. Others will try to get the best out of the players available - Allardyce springs to mind (unless your name is Niko).

The ideal aim would be to recruit to meet the winning system - such as Guardiola. But this obviously requires cash.

On the international scene, no amount of money will help so it probably does need a manager who can get the best out of the players available by finding a system to get the best out of their combined abilities. Ideally with a superstar or two to give them the edge. Square pegs and round holes will undermine manager after manager.

I agree that managers may have preferred formations, but on the international stage as you infer you cant go out and buy players to suit your chosen system, you have to have the flexibility of playing whatever system that gets the best from your key players. As you say no square pegs and round holes.

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This is the first article I've seen in 2018 trying to predict England players; Who to take?

For the first time in a while England have options. Some middling v. middling but still options.

Here's a starting 11;

                           Pickford
            Gomez - Stones - Maguire

Walker                                              Rose

                 Dier - Loftus-Cheek

                          Lallana

            Sterling - Kane - Rashford

        

Subs;

                             Butland
           Smalling - Lascelles- Cahill

Trippier                                              Bertrand

       Oxlade-Chamberlain - Henderson

                          Wilshere

                 Alli - Vardy - Lingard

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19 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

This is the first article I've seen in 2018 trying to predict England players; Who to take?

For the first time in a while England have options. Some middling v. middling but still options.

Here's a starting 11;

                           Pickford
            Gomez - Stones - Maguire

Walker                                              Rose

                 Dier - Loftus-Cheek

                          Lallana

            Sterling - Kane - Rashford

        

Subs;

                             Butland
           Smalling - Lascelles- Cahill

Trippier                                              Bertrand

       Oxlade-Chamberlain - Henderson

                          Wilshere

                 Alli - Vardy - Lingard

Starting 12 you mean? Haha

Squads been announced. A massive worry that Hart, Welbeck and in particular Livermore are all in, no idea what Southgates thinking is with any of them.

Surprised Cahills not in, glad Keane isnt near the squad, think Lewis Cook and Alfie Mawson could be good picks though.

I know its only a friendly but we are at the stage now where anyone being picked could go to Russia.

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18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Starting 12 you mean? Haha

Squads been announced. A massive worry that Hart, Welbeck and in particular Livermore are all in, no idea what Southgates thinking is with any of them.

Surprised Cahills not in, glad Keane isnt near the squad, think Lewis Cook and Alfie Mawson could be good picks though.

I know its only a friendly but we are at the stage now where anyone being picked could go to Russia.

Well spotted. No wonder I think England can win. I'll drop Lallana and Wilshere then.

Here is Southgate's squad for next week's friendlies;

Goalkeepers: Joe Hart, Jordan Pickford, Jack Butland, Nick Pope

Defenders: Kyle Walker, Kieran Tripper, Ryan Bertrand, Danny Rose, John Stones, James Tarkowski, Alfie Mawson, Joe Gomez, Harry Maguire

Midfielders: Eric Dier, Jack Wilshere, Jordan Henderson, Jake Livermore, Adam Lallana, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Dele Alli, Raheem Sterling, Ashley Young, Jesse Lingard, Lewis Cook

Attackers: Danny Welbeck, Jamie Vardy, Marcus Rashford

My guess is that Pope, Mawson, Tarkowski, Cook are being rewarded for playing well but they'll struggle to make the WC 23. I reckon Southgate will take Hart for his "experience". Cahill too.

Loftus-Cheek and Kane to return therefore, marring injuries, there aren't many spots to play for,

 

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My gut's telling me that England will pull out. We're going through a massive diplomatic incident at the the moment, we've squarely blamed Russia presumably as there is solid evidence which will filter out over time.

It's lose-lose. Either we ultimately withdraw because of the political dispute, or we withdraw due to fan safety as Russia ramps up as the dispute escalates. 

Can't see it happening.

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Stuck on a train and bored, so my guess for a team if we do go is

--------------------Pickford

Walker----Stones---Maguire---Rose

-----------------Dier------Wilshire

-----Sterling------Alli-------Rashford

-----------------------Kane

A lot of decent attacking players in there but only two who are top class in Kane and maybe Walker. Key individual is Wilshire for me as he is the only real passer in the frame. If he can perform we will be a much better team than with another workhorse alongside Dier.

That said irrespective of Wilshire Brazil, Argentina, France, Germany, Belgium, Spain all clearly superior to us. 

Think it will be out in the second round. Reaching the quarters would be a good performance.

 

Edited by joey_big_nose
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9 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Stuck on a train and bored, so my guess for a team if we do go is

--------------------Pickford

Walker----Stones---Maguire---Rose

-----------------Dier------Wilshire

-----Sterling------Alli-------Rashford

-----------------------Kane

A lot of decent attacking players in there but only two who are top class in Kane and maybe Walker. Key individual is Wilshire for me as he is the only real passer in the frame. If he can perform we will be a much better team than with another workhorse alongside Dier.

That said irrespective of Wilshire Brazil, Argentina, France, Germany, Belgium, Spain all clearly superior to us. 

Think it will be out in the second round. Reaching the quarters would be a good performance.

 

That’s probably about the strongest we could go, I’d say.

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