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Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Oh yeah because Maradona did nothing at international level. Seems like someone is still crying over a hand incident. I remember Chaddy and others complaining about it when he was linked as manager here but he's not even old enough to remember it (and neither am I). Pele's international teammates were better overall as well. People say Maradona carried Argentina in 1986 not sure Pele really had to do that (though I daresay he could have) 

huh?

I said this will be debated in the same way as them - how am I crying over a hand incident?

You do go off on tangents.

Edited by JacknOry
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He has a couple of lines through the rest of the article On Alf Ramsay: ’He didn’t know the players like Walter Winterbottom, he was a bit naive at first. To be honest, the lads took the pis

Great piece in The Times today talking to England players from 1954 until 2014. Bryan Douglas talks about ‘58 and ‘62. It’s probably behind a paywall, so:      

Bullshit. They were nasty and tried every dirty trick in the book. Got what they deserved - out. 

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Pele's great, Maradona are, again, I'd almost think it is too difficult to compare but one thing is for sure, Pele always had some other stellar talent around him.

Brazil had Jairzinho, Rivellino. The classic Brazil teams, even from 2002 and 1994 had a lot of talented stars, so-called expert writers often say Maradona again, dragged that whole team up.

 

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22 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

...and because he played in England which for some reason seems to be a key factor with some. 

As for "who it was" I'll give you a clue. His name was rather similar to one of them. 

It’s a good point. Messi is a lesser player simply because he hasn’t done it for more than one club.

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I am of the opinion that whilst not every great player has won the World Cup and equally you don't have to be a great player to win the World Cup , the greatest players have won the World Cup, that's why , Imo Pele Maradona and Zidane will always trump Cruyff Platini Ronaldo and Messi etc

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4 minutes ago, AJW said:

I am of the opinion that whilst not every great player has won the World Cup and equally you don't have to be a great player to win the World Cup , the greatest players have won the World Cup, that's why , Imo Pele Maradona and Zidane will always trump Cruyff Platini Ronaldo and Messi etc

Overrated player and I won't even bother getting started on my opinion of him as an executive.

OK maybe I'm letting my contempt get in the way (to be honest I've not seen enough footage to declare him overrated) 

Edited by Vinjay17
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28 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

I don't particularly like Sterling and I don't like Delph. Granted neither of them are as good but that's not the point. I still like Yaya even if he's been a bit silly playing the race card and all. As for the other players I like those the "older" ones more than the "newer" ones which kind of reflects the way my interest has gone. I certainly preferred Mancini over Pellegrini (nothing against Pellegrini as such but Mancini was a great personality and I completely lost interest after he left) and even Guardiola though obviously most would argue the latter is a better coach. I would rather have Aguero in my team than Messi or Ronaldo as well. Like I've said certain players bring success no matter what. So what if he hasn't won the CL it's a knockout tournament.  

Ex United or not my points about his egotism are accurate. If you want to be paranoid perhaps I'll suggest it's because he's ex-United why some people prefer him over Messi? Or perhaps I won't because it's baseless paranoia...right?

As for "fat" Ronaldo (how anyone can mock him on such grounds when Dunn played here is laughable) yeah before his injury he certainly was. Worked pretty damn hard too getting back to the level he did after suffering so many injury issues. Shame that never gets pointed out.

Waffle waffle waffle. The sentence I've just highlighted means this debate is over. How you can say that is just beyond comprehension:lol: 

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Just now, Butty said:

Waffle waffle waffle. The sentence I've just highlighted means this debate is over. How you can say that is just beyond comprehension:lol: 

Because I like him more as a person (Messi can be a bit of a prick at times albeit nowhere near Ronaldo level) and he still wins things. Pretty sure if you asked on Blue Moon whether they would rather have Ronaldo would say exactly same as I have. Cantona won more than Shearer would you rather have had him? ?

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Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Overrated player and I won't even bother getting started on my opinion of him as an executive.

You can't have seem much of Platini to say that. He was every bit as good as Zidane in his day.

Regarding the best - Pele is head and shoulders above all the rest. Maradona is probably next in line.

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1 hour ago, roverandout said:

When spain play like this theres no point in anyone else turning up...how can england ever compete with a technically brilliant team like spain?

It makes one wonder if anyone could be the manager. I mean, that Bolton lad took over a few days ago and seems to have more of a clue than managers that have been there for years.

Look at Southgate for example, he still doesn't know his best team - it would seemingly make little difference whether he was appointed one and a half years ago or one and a half days ago.

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Just now, Husky said:

It makes one wonder if anyone could be the manager. I mean, that Bolton lad took over a few days ago and seems to have more of a clue than managers that have been there for years.

Look at Southgate for example, he still doesn't know his best team - it would seemingly make little difference whether he was appointed one and a half years ago or one and a half days ago.

That bolton lad lol...you make him sound like someone whos just come off the street in bolton and flown over..'oh aye..lets play tha game lads..c'mon keep that ball reet well' 

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Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Because I like him more as a person (Messi can be a bit of a prick at times albeit nowhere near Ronaldo level) and he still wins things. Pretty sure if you asked on Blue Moon whether they would rather have Ronaldo would say exactly same as I have. Cantona won more than Shearer would you rather have had him? 

I like my mate Dan who would score 50 a season for us in Sunday league when we were kids I wouldn't choose him in my team over Ronaldo or Messi because I like him more. We were debating how good these two players are and you throw in that you'd take Aguero in your side because you like him more? How's that relevant? Whatever you think of them as people is irrelevant you'd take either of them in your team over Aguero. Aguero is a great player, but again it underlines how good Messi and Ronaldo are when the world wouldn't even put Aguero in the same league as them. And Cantona over Shearer? Why would I think that? Give me a break. Nobody could match Shearers goalscoring record when he was here. I never said winning more trophies meant you were a better player. But Ronaldo and Messi win everything and are the best players for their galactic teams in the process. Stop waffling now Vinjay because I'm latching on to it myself now and it's too much effort on a Friday night. :lol: 

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Then you have the great teams, together everyone achieves more....

'66 England, ''74 Germany yes, with the Kaiser and the last 3 World Cup champions, Germany, Spain and Italy, maybe there is someone you might pick out of the Spanish team but still, none of the names like Pele and Maradona and Zidane,

 

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Spain are at least two goals better than England at the moment.

Agreed but hopefully in a few years when our batch of youngsters come through we will be able to catch up

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21 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

Because I like him more as a person (Messi can be a bit of a prick at times albeit nowhere near Ronaldo level) and he still wins things. Pretty sure if you asked on Blue Moon whether they would rather have Ronaldo would say exactly same as I have. Cantona won more than Shearer would you rather have had him? ?

I CAN’T HELP BUT BITE SOMEONE STOP ME RONALDO AND MESSI DON’T WIN THINGS NO MORE

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7 minutes ago, Audax said:

Then you have the great teams, together everyone achieves more....

'66 England, ''74 Germany yes, with the Kaiser and the last 3 World Cup champions, Germany, Spain and Italy, maybe there is someone you might pick out of the Spanish team but still, none of the names like Pele and Maradona and Zidane,

 

They aren't attacking players and goal scorers like those 3 but Xavi & Iniesta at their peak were world class (Iniesta in fact still is) & as good anyone that I have ever seen in that central midfield position.

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26 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Spain are at least two goals better than England at the moment.

Watching Spain it was terrifying how much talent they have. Absolutely unbelievable. And theyre probably the third best team at the tournament. 

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Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Watching Spain it was terrifying how much talent they have. Absolutely unbelievable. And theyre probably the third best team at the tournament. 

Who are the top two?

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1 hour ago, AJW said:

I am of the opinion that whilst not every great player has won the World Cup and equally you don't have to be a great player to win the World Cup , the greatest players have won the World Cup, that's why , Imo Pele Maradona and Zidane will always trump Cruyff Platini Ronaldo and Messi etc

I can't see the logic in this line of argument though. If Pele, Maradona, or Zidane had come from Azerbaijan, do you think they would have lifted a World Cup? They would have been the exact same player. I fail to see how any player's career comes down to whether his TEAM managed to win one, very infrequently held tournament. It certainly helps, especially if they've been the driving force in such a win, but it isn't the be all and end all.

I used to have what I feel was a very similar argument with my Arsenal-supporting friends. They reckoned Lehmann was a far better goalkeeper than Friedel, because of what he had won and how Friedel had won nothing. Would you agree with them? Perhaps you would, but at that time, with Lehmann dropping gaffs despite having less shots against him than Friedel, I thought they were mad to not want Friedel instead.

David May won far more medals than Colin Hendry. Who was the better defender? You can never boil everything down to just trophies, because it's a team sport.

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Spain is the 2nd favourite to win the World Cup; so to play that way against them... incredible.  I don't know of many players that could have done that. And yes, in the past, there have been jokes of Cristiano going missing.

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