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On 28/10/2020 at 00:48, roversfan99 said:

I think we are selling Johnson down the river by playing Johnson in front of the back 4. He is as bad a midfielder as I can remember in recent memory at taking the ball on the half turn, he is not technically very good, he has been robbed of the ball in that role countless times and his passing isnt very good. He has made a career at this level of breaking from deep and scoring from midfield, and whilst he is getting older, I think he can still do that.

He was much better at the weekend with Trybull being the sitter providing a safety blanket behind him.

Johnson is an enigma. Looks a world beater at times---1st game against Charlton and recent game at Derby readily come to mind. I'm sure there's plenty more but equally there are many games where he never show's up. Looks very slow and unmotivated and the game seems to pass him by.

In short I don't ever feel he can be relied on.

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Fair point Chaddy , think JB summed it up well on twitter  Link   Imagine the negotiations between Venkys and Levy. Insane. Levy: We will give you 10m. 2m upfront, 8m when we win the le

The last deal he signed was ridiculous from the clubs point of view. Nothing in there to protect us given the length of the deal. We really need to tie him down to a 4 year deal. Allow a release

Fair enough, if you've got a problem with his off the field antics and the celebrity nature of his girlfriend, I think a lot of people are re-writing history about Dack here. Barring a couple of

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2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

When playing alongside Evans his game suffers as a result of Evans lack of ability to control the ball!

Hopefully Bradley Dack taking one of the 11 starting slots squeezes Evans further away from getting picked. If Evans manages to push all except two of Travis, Johnson, Rothwell, Holtby, Trybull, Buckley, and potentially JRC, Elliott and even Brereton (as an alternative to Rothwell) out of the first eleven, good luck to him! 

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16 minutes ago, philipl said:

Hopefully Bradley Dack taking one of the 11 starting slots squeezes Evans further away from getting picked. If Evans manages to push all except two of Travis, Johnson, Rothwell, Holtby, Trybull, Buckley, and potentially JRC, Elliott and even Brereton (as an alternative to Rothwell) out of the first eleven, good luck to him! 

At the very least he shouldn't be near any of the more attacking positions in the midfield. I still think he has has the skillset to do quite well in the deeper role, but his weaknesses are dreadfully exposed when he's asked to go further forwards, especially when he plays on the left of the three.

 

Having said that, seeing as he's already a reserve I'd be looking to have Davenport in front of him in the pecking order anyway. Maybe slightly harsh on Evans as it's not really his fault that the system has changed to not suit his strengths, but he isn't the future whereas Davenport could be with more game time. 

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A couple of months ago I would have thought when he comes back Dack play centrally with Armstrong left, but given Brereton's improvement we have a genuine problem now. 

If everyone's fit our best team is probably that below : 

-------------------------Kaminski

Nyambe-----Lenihan-----Williams-----Douglas

----------Holtby-----Johnson-----Rothwell

-----------Eliott-----Armstrong---Brereton

I can't really see dropping any of the forwards or mids if fit - all of them are good value for their places. So I guess Dack will just come in wherever injuries or suspensions happen. Sure that will happen pretty quickly though given we have two games a week through November and December.

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I think Dack will come in for either Rothwell or Holtby and we will be left with an almost 4-2-4.

A midfield "three" of Dack, Johnson and Travis could work with Trav and Johnson sitting whilst Dack joins in with the front 3.

We have an abundance of talent there now. There's absolutely no reason that, when all fit, we shouldn't run every game in the midfield department. We can switch between players of equal quality.

 

 

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Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I think Dack will come in for either Rothwell or Holtby and we will be left with an almost 4-2-4.

A midfield "three" of Dack, Johnson and Travis could work with Trav and Johnson sitting whilst Dack joins in with the front 3.

We have an abundance of talent there now. There's absolutely no reason that, when all fit, we shouldn't run every game in the midfield department. We can switch between players of equal quality.

 

 

 

4-2-4 with extremely attacking full backs! Certainly if Douglas plays. Don't think we'll be short of more high scoring games before the season's out!

I can definitely see Dack working well as the most attacking of three midfielders. He has the ability to create, especially now he has much more to work with our front three. Obviously we don't want him to lose his knack of getting in the area and scoring, but Lampard made a career of doing that from a deeper position. In a strange sort of way it might even be a bit easier for him to find space given that defenders will be more closely occupied with Armstrong and Brereton.

 

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5 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

4-2-4 with extremely attacking full backs! Certainly if Douglas plays. Don't think we'll be short of more high scoring games before the season's out!

I can definitely see Dack working well as the most attacking of three midfielders. He has the ability to create, especially now he has much more to work with our front three. Obviously we don't want him to lose his knack of getting in the area and scoring, but Lampard made a career of doing that from a deeper position. In a strange sort of way it might even be a bit easier for him to find space given that defenders will be more closely occupied with Armstrong and Brereton.

 

It's a nice problem to have AN but a problem nontheless.

Either Holtby or Rothwell has to make way for Dack. None of the front 3 possibly can at the moment. You can't accommodate Dack, Rothwell and Holtby in the same midfield.

I do think we will end up as a 4-2-4 with the midfield 2 and centre halves almost becoming a back 'square', either midfielder pushing to the left or right full back depending on which went forward. It's how a lot of teams set up, kind of like Man City with their full backs almost being central midfielders at times!!

Holtby could keep as one of the middle 2 when we are expected to win, with Johnson and Trav playing the tougher games. 

 

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Agree that there isn't an obvious place that Dack will slot back into. He is a very talented footballer though and could easily slot into any of one of four positions in our new formation. He can come in for Holtby (whom apart from having Buckley as a slightly unreliable understudy) is the one position where we don't have a huge amount of depth. He could definitely step in for Rothwell as the most attacking of the midfield 3. We'd lose the pace of transition but gain a more natural goalscorer. He could play in the Brereton role or easily up top in Arma's position. Even if he doesn't have one specific role nailed down once fully fit he is going to be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Usually i'd be hesitant about shifting a player about all over the pitch but as we've seen with Elliot. Really good footballers can slot into multiple positions. 

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41 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

A couple of months ago I would have thought when he comes back Dack play centrally with Armstrong left, but given Brereton's improvement we have a genuine problem now. 

If everyone's fit our best team is probably that below : 

-------------------------Kaminski

Nyambe-----Lenihan-----Williams-----Douglas

----------Holtby-----Johnson-----Rothwell

-----------Eliott-----Armstrong---Brereton

I can't really see dropping any of the forwards or mids if fit - all of them are good value for their places. So I guess Dack will just come in wherever injuries or suspensions happen. Sure that will happen pretty quickly though given we have two games a week through November and December.

With Dack though once he is fit, he has to be in the team, him and Armstrong are the 2 main attacking players. Holtby, an improved Brereton and Rothwell all have their strengths but in terms of consistent performances and output, Dack is in a league of his own compared to them 3.

If Dack does not fit into the side within the current formation, we might need to tweak it to get him in. Having Dack and Armstrong together should massively reduce the current over reliance on the latter. 

I would also have Travis in there, as well as Ayala at CB over Williams.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I disagree there. Places have to be earn in the team by performing well. No one should have guarantee place. 

Well by that token, neither is Armstrong.

In his Rovers career, Dack has scored and produced consistently and with regularity, as has Armstrong in 2020, both to a level that considerably outweighs the importance and the consistency of the other players I mentioned. Assuming that there are no mitigating circumstances, it is Armstrong, Dack and 9 others. Obviously if either had a prolonged bad spell of form, then maybe that might change.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

Well by that token, neither is Armstrong.

In his Rovers career, Dack has scored and produced consistently and with regularity, as has Armstrong in 2020, both to a level that considerably outweighs the importance and the consistency of the other players I mentioned. Assuming that there are no mitigating circumstances, it is Armstrong, Dack and 9 others. Obviously if either had a prolonged bad spell of form, then maybe that might change.

Correct. By Armstrong has performed and scores 12 goals this season already. 

For me, we bring Dack slowly into the team and use him from bench for a few games. Anything from Dack in the remaining 2020 games is a bonus considering the couple of setbacks he had

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I know he hasn’t played for ages, but I think people are forgetting how vital to us Bradley Dack is, he’s still the best player at the club.

Therefore, he needs to start as soon as he is able to.

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36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I disagree there. Places have to be earn in the team by performing well. No one should have guarantee place. 

You disagree with Mowbray then, as he pretty much said that he would have one in his Sky interview on Saturday...

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41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Correct. By Armstrong has performed and scores 12 goals this season already. 

For me, we bring Dack slowly into the team and use him from bench for a few games. Anything from Dack in the remaining 2020 games is a bonus considering the couple of setbacks he had

Christ, obviously Dack is gonna be reintroduced slowly till he's fully fit, but as soon as he is he'll be starting. Let people be excited by the return of our best player. Wasn't too long ago we were struggling to score against Forest, Cardiff, Swansea etc, Dack will be the first name on the teamsheet when he's fit.

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1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

I know he hasn’t played for ages, but I think people are forgetting how vital to us Bradley Dack is, he’s still the best player at the club.

Therefore, he needs to start as soon as he is able to.

I think he has to play for us, as soon as he is playing better than who he replaces.

Edited by rigger
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3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

I know he hasn’t played for ages, but I think people are forgetting how vital to us Bradley Dack is, he’s still the best player at the club.

Therefore, he needs to start as soon as he is able to.

I don't really agree to be honest. Everyone thought we were buggered when Dack for injured but we went on a great run without him. He's a top player but it's not a given he will be better than the existing players, especially coming back from a major injury.

Ultimately we need the best team out there. Sure he will fit in somewhere it's just tricky to figure out where that is.

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Dack will score more in a season than BB, SG, Elliot & Rothwell put together. First name on the team sheet very week. 

How Mogga adjusts his team to accommodate him is the interesting bit. Maybe we will go 4-2-3-1 again but with Dack a bit deeper than he used to play?

                

Edited by Hoochie Bloochie Mama
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1 minute ago, joey_big_nose said:

I don't really agree to be honest. Everyone thought we were buggered when Dack for injured but we went on a great run without him. He's a top player but it's not a given he will be better than the existing players, especially coming back from a major injury.

Ultimately we need the best team out there. Sure he will fit in somewhere it's just tricky to figure out where that is.

The thing is that Armstrong had just begun scoring but even then, across his absence overall we have not consistently picked up a competitive number of points.

When you compare him to the players who might be most at risk ie Holtby, Rothwell and Brereton. None of them are or have ever impacting/impacted games like Dack did for us consistently. When you take Armstrong out of this team there is very little goal threat.

The new style of play I think should suit Dack too, he is technically very good and he naturally presses. If teams back off to prevent Armstrong having space then Dack is better than anyone in the increased spaces that will arise. 

The only real doubt is the injury but there is no reason at this moment to expect him to be the player he was before once he is back up and running again.

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Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Dack will score more in a season than BB, SG, Elliot & Rothwell put together. 

How Mogga adjusts his team to accommodate him is the interesting bit. Maybe we will go 4-2-3-1 again but with Dack a bit deeper than he used to play?

                

I think a 4-2-3-1 could potentially get our best 2 players in central positions which would be really good. We could then have Elliott on one side, Brereton/Rothwell/Rankin Costello on the other and then 2 from Johnson, Trybull, Holtby and when he returns Travis to sit.

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