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Ben Brereton Diaz


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11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He won't run down his deal, because if he doesn't sign he will be sold this summer. I bet it will be for more than Armstrong as well.  

He is a key member of our team now, top scorer in the league, an international footballer at a high level and an absolute superstar in Chile. The deal worked out.  

I think he will go for big money. Thankfully we have the one year extension, otherwise I would be worrying, but think it will be £20 million plus, because of this and see January, as the likely point, when we cash in.

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It ultimately comes down to how you define 'paid off'. In terms of becoming a strong part of our team this season, yes. In terms of resale for a higher value, not yet but a good chance of that happening. In terms of helping us get promoted, probably not even if he is sold for profit at the end. In terms of helping us avoid relegation this season there is an argument for that, as I'm not sure who would step up to replace his goals if he wasn't here. It just depends on how you define it which is going to be different for everyone. 

 

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2 minutes ago, DE. said:

It ultimately comes down to how you define 'paid off'. In terms of becoming a strong part of our team this season, yes. In terms of resale for a higher value, not yet but a good chance of that happening. In terms of helping us get promoted, probably not even if he is sold for profit at the end. In terms of helping us avoid relegation this season there is an argument for that, as I'm not sure who would step up to replace his goals if he wasn't here. It just depends on how you define it which is going to be different for everyone. 

 

I think all the categories you mention though point to the transfer working out and being a success. The promotion stuff is really out of his hands, as is how his fee would potentially be reinvested. As an individual he is doing all he can to be a success and his performances and goals represent that. To me he has far more to his game than say Armstrong and as such could command a greater fee. 

It might have taken some time, but I don't anyone can point at the deal now and say it didn't work out. Even Forrest fans must concede we got the better deal at this stage, particularly after all the money they have squandered since. That certainly wasn't the view before the last few months, they no doubt thought they pulled our pants down. 

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40 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He won't run down his deal, because if he doesn't sign he will be sold this summer. I bet it will be for more than Armstrong as well.  

He is a key member of our team now, top scorer in the league, an international footballer at a high level and an absolute superstar in Chile. The deal worked out.  

I'll ask the question again, this time with a caveat,

How has this deal worked out - as it currently stands - with no ifs and maybes - for Blackburn Rovers?

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8 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I'll ask the question again, this time with a caveat,

How has this deal worked out - as it currently stands - with no ifs and maybes - for Blackburn Rovers?

We signed a player to improve our starting 11 and we now have a unique player, crucial to our team, who is big , strong, travels well with the ball, plays off the left, but also scores goals. He is currently the top scorer for our team and in the division. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We signed a player to improve our starting 11 and we now have a unique player who is big , strong, travels well with the ball, plays off the left, but also scores goals. He is currently the top scorer for our team and in the division. 

You're happy to label the signing as 'working out', based on a dozen or so improved performances, despite him costing £7m (that's 7 MILLION), and being absolutely attrocious for 3 years. 

I call that a bad deal.

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7 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

You're happy to label the signing as 'working out', based on a dozen or so improved performances, despite him costing £7m (that's 7 MILLION), and being absolutely attrocious for 3 years. 

I call that a bad deal.

No, I'm basing it off what I see with my eyes at this current point in time. His stats back that up. The deal has worked out.  Again, you are over estimating what 6 or 7 million gets you these days. 

The time he has been here is irrelevant to the question of whether it has worked out, eventually. So I will ask you a question, if we signed him for £6 million last summer, would you say we had signed a good player and that the deal had worked out?  

If he scores 20 plus goals and leaves for 20 million , will it have worked out? 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, I'm basing it off what I see with my eyes at this current point in time. His stats back that up. The deal has worked out.  Again, you are over estimating what 6 or 7 million gets you these days. 

The time he has been here is irrelevant to the question of whether it has worked out, eventually. So I will ask you a question, if we signed him for £6 million last summer, would you say we had signed a good player and that the deal had worked out?  

We didn't sign him for £6m last year though, that's totally irrelvant.

We did sign him for 7 million 4 years ago- which was a lot of money at the time - and for 3+ of those he's been attrocious. That's fact.

His stats over 4 years show that he's a 5 goal a season man. That's fact.

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Just now, Wheelton Blue said:

We didn't sign him for £6m last year though, that's totally irrelvant.

We did sign him for 7 million 4 years ago- which was a lot of money at the time - and for 3+ of those he's been attrocious. That's fact.

His stats over 4 years show that he's a 5 goal a season man. That's fact.

Again, time here is irrelevant to the question whether the deal has worked out or not. Breaking his goals down over 4 years, likewise. If he continues his form this season, teams will be coming to us with big bids and they won't be looking at the last 3 seasons. Might be shocking for you to learn but young players improve and he is a young player. 

By your rational Thierry Henry, Suarez , Andy Cole at United, Bergkamp should all be looked at as poor signings due to their slow starts at various clubs. To the degree where anything they did afterwards is to be ignored

Look I know some just refuse to give the manager credit for anything and we would all like if Brereton got going sooner, but that doesn't change the fact we now have a player who is crucial to our team and will be the recipient of big bids from clubs going forwards. The deal has worked out. 

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3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Again, time here is irrelevant to the question whether the deal has worked out or not. Breaking his goals down over 4 years, likewise. If he continues his form this season, teams will be coming to us with big bids and they won't be looking at the last 3 seasons. Might be shocking for you to learn but young players improve and he is a young player. 

By your rational Thierry Henry, Suarez , Andy Cole at United, Bergkamp should all be looked at as poor signings due to their slow starts at various clubs. To the degree where anything they did afterwards is to be ignored

Look I know some just refuse to give the manager credit for anything and we would all like if Brereton got going sooner, but that doesn't change the fact we now have a player who is crucial to our team and will be the recipient of big bids from clubs going forwards. The deal has worked out. 

Sorry, but that's all ifs, buts and maybes.

Anyway, it's best to agree to disagree!

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Just now, Wheelton Blue said:

Sorry, but that's all ifs, buts and maybes.

Anyway, it's best to agree to disagree!

The fact he is our top scorer, top scorer in the league and a hugely important member of the starting 11 is not if, but or a maybe, it is fact.

Fair enough though, lets leave it at that! 

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25 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

We didn't sign him for £6m last year though, that's totally irrelvant.

We did sign him for 7 million 4 years ago- which was a lot of money at the time - and for 3+ of those he's been attrocious. That's fact.

His stats over 4 years show that he's a 5 goal a season man. That's fact.

Brererton wasn't atrocious last season he was decent and has improved again this year.

First two seasons poor but he was good last season 

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42 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think all the categories you mention though point to the transfer working out and being a success. The promotion stuff is really out of his hands, as is how his fee would potentially be reinvested. As an individual he is doing all he can to be a success and his performances and goals represent that. To me he has far more to his game than say Armstrong and as such could command a greater fee. 

It might have taken some time, but I don't anyone can point at the deal now and say it didn't work out. Even Forrest fans must concede we got the better deal at this stage, particularly after all the money they have squandered since. That certainly wasn't the view before the last few months, they no doubt thought they pulled our pants down. 

Again, for me it's a matter of perception. I can understand the view of people who say it has paid off, but I can also understand why somebody would say it hasn't. Totally depends on the criteria you're applying. It certainly paid off for Brereton as an individual, and it should work out for Mowbray if we sell him for a good price and he can brag about the profits made. On the other hand if Mowbray brought him in as part of the goal of getting promoted then that likely isn't going to work out regardless of how many goals BBD scores this season or what we sell him for.

Whilst I agree promotion and reinvestment of fee is out of Brereton's hands, as fans we should still consider those elements as to whether his transfer ultimately paid off for the club and has made us stronger in the long term. If it doesn't then the transfer worked out for Brereton, but not necessarily Blackburn Rovers.

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6 minutes ago, DE. said:

Again, for me it's a matter of perception. I can understand the view of people who say it has paid off, but I can also understand why somebody would say it hasn't. Totally depends on the criteria you're applying. It certainly paid off for Brereton as an individual, and it should work out for Mowbray if we sell him for a good price and he can brag about the profits made. On the other hand if Mowbray brought him in as part of the goal of getting promoted then that likely isn't going to work out regardless of how many goals BBD scores this season or what we sell him for.

Whilst I agree promotion and reinvestment of fee is out of Brereton's hands, as fans we should still consider those elements as to whether his transfer ultimately paid off for the club and has made us stronger in the long term. If it doesn't then the transfer worked out for Brereton, but not necessarily Blackburn Rovers.

In that case no transfer has worked out 

Jordan Rhodes didn't work out and neither did Armstrong as we never got promoted

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3 hours ago, roverblue said:

If you spend £7m on a lad who just played a full season for Notts Forest and won the EFL young player of the year then in my view he starts every game for at least the first 20 games of that season. If not why bother singing him when we had pressing concerns in other areas of the pitch?

What I wouldn't do is bring him on for 10 mins at the end of a game (probably when losing) and then see fans start classing him as appalling because he hasn't managed to score a hat trick in what little time he gets on the pitch.

You could see his confidence drain away that first season with the way Mowbray managed him. With hindsight I bet Ben wished he stayed at Forest and got another full season or two in and he may have reached the point he is at now much sooner. Thankfully in the end its worked out and its wonderful to hear the 'Diaz' chants at Ewood after he bangs another one in.

That highlighted sentence suggests that you are trying to provoke somewhat, the issue wasn't unreasonably high standards, he looked out of place when he did feature, my personal expectations that season were just for him to contribute with a few goals and assists and look a threat, which he didn't. Nobody expected hat tricks. I have no recollection of him winning that award that you mention, indeed he started the season at a mid table Forest side unable to make the 18 man squad.

Ultimately, if a player costing such a sum wasn't close to being in the first 11, then as was the case, the question was should we have spent that money when we had much more pressing matters. Graham was player of the season and Dack was scoring goals with regularity so he certainly shouldn't have started ahead of them. We played a 4-2-3-1 which didn't suit him as much to play wide as the 4-3-3 does, Armstrong had just come off a very successful half season and we tended to play a "defensive winger" on the other side.

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12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

In that case no transfer has worked out 

Jordan Rhodes didn't work out and neither did Armstrong as we never got promoted

Armstrong helped us get out of League 1, so I don't think it's fair to say that. I think an argument could be made for Rhodes not working out as despite his goals we didn't even get into the playoffs and with his wages/bonuses taken into account did we even make a profit on him in the end?

As I have said a few times now, though, it's all about how you view it. Just because I see promotion as one of the key factors in judging whether JR worked out as a transfer doesn't mean you have to or even should feel the same way. If you don't then that's fine.

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15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That highlighted sentence suggests that you are trying to provoke somewhat, the issue wasn't unreasonably high standards, he looked out of place when he did feature, my personal expectations that season were just for him to contribute with a few goals and assists and look a threat, which he didn't. Nobody expected hat tricks. I have no recollection of him winning that award that you mention, indeed he started the season at a mid table Forest side unable to make the 18 man squad.

Ultimately, if a player costing such a sum wasn't close to being in the first 11, then as was the case, the question was should we have spent that money when we had much more pressing matters. Graham was player of the season and Dack was scoring goals with regularity so he certainly shouldn't have started ahead of them. We played a 4-2-3-1 which didn't suit him as much to play wide as the 4-3-3 does, Armstrong had just come off a very successful half season and we tended to play a "defensive winger" on the other side.

He did win that award in his breakout season.He did start the season out of their 18 as they had splashed out on foreigners and Grabban,players they thought could get them promoted and Brerertons sale helped balance their books.The previous season he made 36 appearances for them,he must have been showing something

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25 minutes ago, DE. said:

Again, for me it's a matter of perception. I can understand the view of people who say it has paid off, but I can also understand why somebody would say it hasn't. Totally depends on the criteria you're applying. It certainly paid off for Brereton as an individual, and it should work out for Mowbray if we sell him for a good price and he can brag about the profits made. On the other hand if Mowbray brought him in as part of the goal of getting promoted then that likely isn't going to work out regardless of how many goals BBD scores this season or what we sell him for.

Whilst I agree promotion and reinvestment of fee is out of Brereton's hands, as fans we should still consider those elements as to whether his transfer ultimately paid off for the club and has made us stronger in the long term. If it doesn't then the transfer worked out for Brereton, but not necessarily Blackburn Rovers.

I just don't think 1 signing can make or break promotion for us, which opens up the broader question of why that hasn't happened under Mowbray. If we do make money on the transfer though,  it will go to the club in some way, maybe not the way we like , or a glamorous way, but it might , for example, keep the FFP wolves from the door. I just think under pretty much all the headings that matter with regards a transfer "working out", we are in the positive, eventually, with regards the Brereton Diaz deal.   Far more than say with Gallagher, for example. 

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1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I just don't think 1 signing can make or break promotion for us, which opens up the broader question of why that hasn't happened under Mowbray. If we do make money on the transfer though,  it will go to the club in some way, maybe not the way we like , or a glamorous way, but it might , for example, keep the FFP wolves from the door. I just think under pretty much all the headings that matter with regards a transfer "working out", we are in the positive, eventually, with regards the Brereton Diaz deal.   Far more than say with Gallagher, for example. 

If we sell BBD for a big profit, and it does look likely at the moment, I'd tend to agree. Personally I'd also look at what the end goal was from buying the player.

Using JR as an example, even though his goals likely kept us in the division, I don't think he was bought for that purpose. We spent £8m for a striker that would provide the goals to fire us to promotion. It wasn't his fault and it wasn't his sole purchase that meant we failed, but as far as the reason we bought him, it didn't work.

As far as BBD is concerned, I believe we likely purchased him with development and resale for profit in mind. On that basis alone, if we do sell him for profit, then the transfer was a success. Applying other metrics to it, which from a fan's perspective is understandable, can change that viewpoint. 

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2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It has paid off though. He is playing super stuff for club and country and barring injury, he will now leave for a big fee. 

It's great for him, and for us to watch the goals go in for hopefully an entire season, but what then?

Will it lead to promotion? No because the squad is paper thin. Why is the squad paper thin? Because we were gambling £7m here and £5m there a few seasons ago.

Where will that big fee go? Where did Armstrong's big fee go?

How will the club cope with losing another top scorer? The same as Armstrong I'd imagine - just praying that someone steps up followed by the club spending barely anything and Mowbray's scattershot approach to football transfers.

It won't even make a dent on the clubs debt.

It was a silly signing then and a pointless signing now if we aren't building for the future.

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32 minutes ago, islander200 said:

In that case no transfer has worked out 

Jordan Rhodes didn't work out and neither did Armstrong as we never got promoted

 

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Shearer didn't get us promoted.

I was obviously referring to the Venky reign and since we got relegated

You never mentioned: During Venkys reign , in your initial post. Also Armstrongs transfer did work, because we made money on him. 

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10 minutes ago, rigger said:

 

You never mentioned: During Venkys reign , in your initial post. Also Armstrongs transfer did work, because we made money on him. 

Read the post I was responding too.

It was in response to someone saying that people can look at Brererton and say he wasn't a success because he didn't get us promoted.

I mentioned Armstrong and Rhodes because they didn't get us promoted from this division either.I wasn't saying in my opinion they weren't a success 

We will make money on Brererton too.

 

Edited by islander200
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16 minutes ago, booth said:

It's great for him, and for us to watch the goals go in for hopefully an entire season, but what then?

Will it lead to promotion? No because the squad is paper thin. Why is the squad paper thin? Because we were gambling £7m here and £5m there a few seasons ago.

Where will that big fee go? Where did Armstrong's big fee go?

How will the club cope with losing another top scorer? The same as Armstrong I'd imagine - just praying that someone steps up followed by the club spending barely anything and Mowbray's scattershot approach to football transfers.

It won't even make a dent on the clubs debt.

It was a silly signing then and a pointless signing now if we aren't building for the future.

If his goals keep us away from trouble and we sell for a decent profit then his signing will have been a successful one.

We have no idea that Venkys won't allow spending next summer they did agree to pay 7 million for Brererton and 5 for Gallagher in the first place.

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