Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

We’re Blackburn Rovers, not Man City. When we spend £7 Million on a player, we need them to be ready to get straight in the first team, we haven’t got the cash for that!

I’m glad Brereton has been playing well, I’m dead pleased for him and everyone associated with the club, it’s to all our benefit that he does!

However much game time he had or didn’t have doesn’t matter, he’s doing well now, so what is the issue? Does it really matter what someone nobody has ever met said online two years ago? 

The way people are going on is like fans were regularly sending Brereton those kidnap style letters with words cut out of newspapers. (Obviously red tops, such letter writers would be too thick to read broadsheets). 

 

We spent more than 7m in one season in sacking managers “allegedly” and that was nearly a decade ago. 

It’s 2020 - when prem stable money Bunla can’t match top Champ wages, some in region of 4 year 10+million contracts, it makes no sense to see 7m as a “talismanic” mega splurge. 

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with criticising a player after for perceived lack of performance and effort, as long as you agree there is no issue with suggesting such criticism of a 19 year old only partially involved was critical then, and looks even more stupid now.
 

Equally - it’s absolutely fair game to say we could’ve spent the money better at the time, and it’s absolutely fine to suggest transfer business isn’t easy with certain limitations. 
 

We’re all buzzing one of our lads is performing well, that’s something we all agree on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I suspect what’s happened here is as follows... Brereton has performed poorly, again, and been subbed off. A few people have made ironic cheers, maybe the odd couple have booed, and a few people

Exciting times  

I too would like to see them both under a different manager. Preferably at a different club.

Posted Images

13 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I didn’t compare them, you did. I asked how much he’d be in this climate, any input on that?

You’d have to elaborate further on the part in bold because I’ve no idea what you’re on about 

Biz,  I'm not falling into the old trap of arguing with you till I lose the will to live. You've obviously come back re-energised, but I haven't!

In this climate he wouldn't be worth near the £7M we paid. imo, but transfer values have skyrocketed since we signed him so who know's?

However had we signed someone else, their value would have increased at least as much especially if they hadn't flopped for 2 years.

As to the bit in bold, its not difficult, try harder.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, JBiz said:

We spent more than 7m in one season in sacking managers “allegedly” and that was nearly a decade ago. 

It’s 2020 - when prem stable money Bunla can’t match top Champ wages, some in region of 4 year 10+million contracts, it makes no sense to see 7m as a “talismanic” mega splurge. 

It makes no sense to compare what top (financially) Champ clubs spend to what we spend. Most of them have parachute money- much like we did when we spent a ton firing managers. The others will probably fail FFP if they don't go up soon, or have been sneaky around the restrictions in a way we clearly aren't willing to be.

7 million was very much a talismanic figure for the newly promoted, natural cash flow deprived, FFP-beholden Blackburn Rovers of 2018 to spend on a single 19-year old striker with 9 goals to his name, and to think otherwise is to ignore reality. It was a serious statement of intent, and a huge gamble, and nothing subsequent to it happening will ever change that.

There isn't a sane Rovers fan who isn't delighted the gamble is finally paying dividends.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, 47er said:

A joke yes? Faced with an open goal Brereton had 2 options for 2 seasons:

1) hit the woodwork

2) trip over his own ankles

We are all delighted he's come good but there was nothing to suggest it and you pretending you had the greater insight is laughable.

 

Half joke.

You're allowed to watch games of other teams FYI 

We didn’t sign him on a dare

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, bluebruce said:

 

7 million was very much a talismanic figure for the newly promoted, natural cash flow deprived, FFP-beholden Blackburn Rovers of 2018 to spend on a single 19-year old striker with 9 goals to his name, and to think otherwise is to ignore reality. It was a serious statement of intent, and a huge gamble, and nothing subsequent to it happening will ever change that.

There isn't a sane Rovers fan who isn't delighted the gamble is finally paying dividends.

I disagree - we went for the likes of Bamford and Celina but couldn’t get near wage demands. Hence assumption the deal we did didn’t go beyond a budget.

My view then, people “ignored reality” when using the fee to expect instant success. 

Age, previous experience and him being 3rd or 4th choice on our shortlist suggested (at the time) to me that this was one for further down the line.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderation Lead
10 hours ago, JBiz said:

We spent more than 7m in one season in sacking managers “allegedly” and that was nearly a decade ago. 

It’s 2020 - when prem stable money Bunla can’t match top Champ wages, some in region of 4 year 10+million contracts, it makes no sense to see 7m as a “talismanic” mega splurge. 

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with criticising a player after for perceived lack of performance and effort, as long as you agree there is no issue with suggesting such criticism of a 19 year old only partially involved was critical then, and looks even more stupid now.
 

Equally - it’s absolutely fair game to say we could’ve spent the money better at the time, and it’s absolutely fine to suggest transfer business isn’t easy with certain limitations. 
 

We’re all buzzing one of our lads is performing well, that’s something we all agree on.

Yeah, and look what that has meant for our balance sheet. Hence my concern that he’s taken two years to properly get going, whatever the reasons. 
 

So basically, you’re agreeing that everyone is right to have an opinion and they all have a point? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I disagree - we went for the likes of Bamford and Celina but couldn’t get near wage demands. Hence assumption the deal we did didn’t go beyond a budget.

My view then, people “ignored reality” when using the fee to expect instant success. 

Age, previous experience and him being 3rd or 4th choice on our shortlist suggested (at the time) to me that this was one for further down the line.

Celina cost £3m. Let's say he's on 30k over 4 years. That's another £6m. £9m in total.

BB cost £7m - Let's say he's on 15k over 4 years.  That's another £3m. £10m in total. 

Those wage figures are generously weighted against the point I'm making. I doubt Celina is on double what BB is on. 

There's no escaping the fact that the fee for BB  reflected how desperate Rovers were to sign somebody after missing out on all their main targets.

Even now we'd struggle to get £7m for him. He's had about 10 good games in a Rovers shirt in over 2 years. 

Edited by Hoochie Bloochie Mama
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JBiz said:

My view then, people “ignored reality” when using the fee to expect instant success. 

 

I don't know that anyone expected "instant success' but what Brereton produced in his first two seasons came nowhere near success. He didn't look like a professional player at any level.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont even understand why it is being assumed that Celina was on high wages, he signed for Swansea when they were keen to reduce their wage bill so it was very unlikely that he went there on considerable wages. Indeed we didnt need a number 10 anyway.

Using the flex argument (even if we take it for granted that Breretons wages are not considerable, he wont be on peanuts either) to suggest that looking elsewhere may have meant that we couldnt have spent quite the same transfer fee, maybe thats got some logic in it. But lets not pretend that the finances used by Breretons fee and wages werent enough to start thinking about potential opportunity cost and alternative ways we could have spent it. No matter how it is spun, it was a big chunk of our resources.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 47er said:

I don't know that anyone expected "instant success' but what Brereton produced in his first two seasons came nowhere near success. He didn't look like a professional player at any level.

Its another flimsy argument. As you suggest, there was never an implication that we demanded a 7m instant success, the problem was that he wasnt even contributing even as a competent rotational player/back up, and he looked even worse than poor players like Samuel and Nuttall.

To be quite honest, such expectations even putting the fee aside for a player who had played over 50 games for Forest were fairly modest, he never even showed signs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Yeah, and look what that has meant for our balance sheet. Hence my concern that he’s taken two years to properly get going, whatever the reasons. 
 

So basically, you’re agreeing that everyone is right to have an opinion and they all have a point? 

Yea, myself included

The balance sheet didn’t seem to be impacted much, over last 2/3 windows we’ve built continuously but always from a certain “pool” of players that don’t bust the wage bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't know that anyone expected "instant success' but what Brereton produced in his first two seasons came nowhere near success. He didn't look like a professional player at any level.

Completely disagree with this level of criticism, and I personally wouldn’t be as arrogant to think I know what makes a player at this level, or at least how to spot potential.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon someone like Celina would've been and gone and wouldn't have got us up anyway.

By luck or judgement, Brereton has matured at the right time with the rest of the squad.

I don't see it as egg on anyone's face to have thought he was a dud, he didn't exactly pull any trees up.

So let's just all enjoy this cracking young player we have and lump on for him to score tonight.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Completely disagree with this level of criticism, and I personally wouldn’t be as arrogant to think I know what makes a player at this level, or at least how to spot potential.

You're reverting to type there Biz--when your arguments are crap, attack the poster.

I'm just expressing my view.

For 2 years he was utterly hopeless and you don't have to be a professional to have spotted that.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 47er said:

You're reverting to type there Biz--when your arguments are crap, attack the poster.

I'm just expressing my view.

For 2 years he was utterly hopeless and you don't have to be a professional to have spotted that.

 

As previously mentioned - the minutes, starts and opportunities, in my view; prevented any supporter from making any full judgement. Hence the disagreement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He didn't get the minutes or the starts because he was so bad. Wasn't fair to the rest of the team or the supporters.

His "recovery" has been remarkable, we're all happy with him now, let's leave it at that.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't know that anyone expected "instant success' but what Brereton produced in his first two seasons came nowhere near success. He didn't look like a professional player at any level.

There were times he looked like that lad who was chosen to appear in " The Big Time " tv programme. We've had other players in the past that have lacked technical ability but at least they put themselves about. His first two seasons were basically a write off. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JBiz said:

As previously mentioned - the minutes, starts and opportunities, in my view; prevented any supporter from making any full judgement. Hence the disagreement.

And in other peoples view it was easily enough time for him to show some potential, which he didn't. I never made a full judgement. I just kept saying that "on what I have seen so far he is pretty shite".  

I've never been one to not hold my hand up, and he's showing a lot more this season regularly being one of our better performers. 

I'm not actually sure what the argument is here to be honest. Brereton was poor for 2 seasons and, based on what we saw, many people said as much. Naturally then people give their opinion on whether  they think they will improve or make it. It has always happened with practically all players.  

If the argument is that he wasn't poor in those first 2 season then I completely disagree.

If the argument is that he is now proving effective and proving people wrong who said he'd never amount to anything, then I agree.

 

What I did get frustrated by was the fact someone like Chapman would get 10 minutes here, vanish for 4 months and then 10 minutes there, despite showing more for the Unders 23's,. Whereas Ben got a lot more chances. And that was purely because they needed to try to make sure their 'investment' wasn't being squandered, even if it was to the detriment of the team and performances. 

Edited by Hasta
Link to post
Share on other sites

The transfer fee does seem to overshadow his age. He's only 21. A couple of years younger than Lewis Travis who we think of as one of younger lads. A few years to reach Armstrong's age.

No doubt it's been a rollercoaster rather than a consistent upward trajectory, but he's been more consistent over the past six months than seemed possible before. He needs time to mature, to improve. 

The future's looking bright for Ben at Rovers. About time, sure, but now he's a first-team regular starter, we can expect to see him progressing before our eyes this season.

At least, that's the hope!  

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hasta said:

 

If the argument is that he is now proving effective and proving people wrong who said he'd never amount to anything, then I agree.

 

 

I guess the summary of my overall view now would’ve been that this spell of improvement would probably come during a proper run of games to get match fit. Also after time due to age.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Its interesting that Millwall fans seem to have picked Ben out as a particular threat on their forums.

He's been one of our best players for months now.

If he could just add a few more goals to his game, then he'd really cement the Ben 2.0 version that we're enjoying these days. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I guess the summary of my overall view now would’ve been that this spell of improvement would probably come during a proper run of games to get match fit. Also after time due to age.

 

And likewise, he has only had a proper run of games because in the first couple of games this season he actually played well. If he had played well previously he would have had a run of games.

Otherwise let's drop Dolan and Elliot and throw Chapman in for 6 games to get match fit.

Edited by Hasta
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.