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1 hour ago, TheRoversReturn said:

It's a slow burn with Ben but there's a cracker of a play in there. Just turned 22 and watching Messi on the pitch...ok, he didn't get on.

But the lad's got potential. He might not reach it, but it's strange that some want to write him off already. Why are some like that with youngsters? Give them a chance, it's not like they're a 35-year old free transfer or anything. They're obviously not going to be the finished article. 

Its not about writing him off, people just feel that they can judge a 7m signing that has been here for 3 years. He received plenty of praise last year in fact, perhaps at times slightly more than his performances warranted simply because of how low the benchmark was that he had set. There is no witch hunt but people will judge based on what they see. Am I convinced that he will ever be a top player at Championship player? Possibly not.

 

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Hello all. Thought I'd register on here tonight as I'm a Stoke fan living in Chile for the past 15 years, following the local football all that time through thick and thin, completely bewildered by th

I suspect what’s happened here is as follows... Brereton has performed poorly, again, and been subbed off. A few people have made ironic cheers, maybe the odd couple have booed, and a few people

It's all happening!!!!

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not about writing him off, people just feel that they can judge a 7m signing that has been here for 3 years. He received plenty of praise last year in fact, perhaps at times slightly more than his performances warranted simply because of how low the benchmark was that he had set. There is no witch hunt but people will judge based on what they see. Am I convinced that he will ever be a top player at Championship player? Possibly not.

 

Not sure what your 'Witch Hunt" reference relates to.

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4 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Not sure what your 'Witch Hunt" reference relates to.

I just feel that there has been an underlying ongoing narrative throughout his time here that he has been unfairly criticised by Rovers fans which is grossly untrue.

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NGL I stayed up until 3am to watch.

Entertaining enough game though. Did struggle to see where Ben would fit in if he did come on given their playing style, but was still there in the hope to see him get a few minutes. Didn't seem likely at 1-1 against Argentina though either way. Maybe next time out.

Bravo pulled off some solid saves to deny Messi.

Edited by CD_93
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Define ‘cracker of a player’? He’s yet to stand out in a middling Championship team after three seasons here.

Still struggles with the basics like controlling the ball, shooting, heading etc. He loses form and confidence very quickly.

Obviously 22 is still young and he can improve and maybe the fourth year of his deal will be the season he finally hits his straps on a consistent basis (AA is an example of how younger players can step up), but let’s not pretend he’s been anything but average at best.

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7 hours ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

192 pages, at roughly 25 posts per page = 4,800 posts.

One post would have sufficed.

”Bag of kak. Shouldn’t have been bought.”

I’d like to know how many people would have still lumped the £7 million on him if they had their time again ? I’m thinking not one person on here would.

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12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Define ‘cracker of a player’? He’s yet to stand out in a middling Championship team after three seasons here.

Come on Mattyblue, let's not go crazy...read back and you'll see I said "in there", hence not brought out...Obviously, if he'd been able to "stand out" we would not still be having this conversation. (Who did stand out last year? AA - going to the prem probably, maybe Elliott at times - going back to a CL club. Hence, if he had "stood out" we'd be talking about if we could fend off bids for him this summer and not this type of chat). However, has he been managed well during this time? For most of the first 18 months he wasn't being played. I distinctly remember when he finally scored...we won 1-0...what happened the game after? Mowbray dropped him. He was put on as sub in different positions time and again. It was a textbook case of incompetent man-management by the inspiration that is TM.

I repeat, "But the lad's got potential. He might not reach it, but it's strange that some want to write him off already." It's not a question of deciding whether he'll be Messi in a year or retired, he'll be neither. But will he go on to have a decent career? It looks like it. He might need a better manager though, like the rest of our youngsters.

Edited by TheRoversReturn
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12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Armstrong to be fair had previously had a prolific season albeit at League 1 level.

Ok, but Armstrong is a couple of years older than BB. He scored 5 goals in 44 championship appearances in our first season after promotion. Ben got 7 in 40 last year. They were probably paying similar positions, wasn't AA mostly played wide back then? 

As Tyrone's post shows, people find it hard to discuss BB without mentioning the transfer fee. That's fully justified of course, nobody saying we should have paid that much and there's no doubt that considering the amount this has been a colossal disappointment. Still, we should be able discuss BB without going to extremes of "bag of kak" or suggesting he'll ever be a world beater. Or is nuance dead? Are the only choices to be; Shit or Superb? 

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Personally not sure there’s a cracking player ‘in there’, or at least one that will ever emerge. What do you see that I’m obviously not?

Hope you are right, but his struggles with the basics of the game at 22 (not 17) is not a good sign that he’s going to kick on.

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8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Personally not sure there’s a cracking player ‘in there’, or at least one that will ever emerge. What do you see that I’m obviously not?

Hope you are right, but his struggles with the basics of the game at 22 (not 17) is not a good sign that he’s going to kick on.

Struggles with basics?

I would argue you could find 30 clips that support this view, and another 30 clips that show his first touch, short passing, crossing, shooting, strength, movement, dribbling skills etc are of a high level.

In terms of a “witch hunt” - whilst an extreme definition, the fact he was expensive meant that the expectation was instant. A handful of games first season, looking out of shape/confidence = he was effectively written off, advocated to be sent out on loan.. (ado den Haag la vista?)

Since, he’s basically just done what an average football fan would probably expect of any highly regarded potential young players; improved with age, time, starts and alongside his physical development.

Each to their own, I just would save the “bag of kak” comments for the Dixon Etuhu’s in blue and white.

 

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I’m not particularly seeing any player either just one that lurches from total incompetence that you’d expect to see in the non league to one that goes through a purple patch of the standard you’d expect of an average championship player (not forgetting during these lofty periods he still can’t really score) but after which he’s heralded as being more than he is.

Of course at 22 he can improve and shouldn’t be judged as the final product but he’s got a long way to go to even be considered an average signing.

In the worst ever signings thread roversreturn gave his criteria for the worst signing combining fee, performances and consequences and 100% agree with Davies as the worst would then include grabbi but when you consider Brereton- £7 million, mostly useless on the pitch and transfer embargo resulting from his exorbitant fee he definitely deserves a mention.

The fact he’s currently on international duty with Chile is one of the most bewildering things I’ve seen happen to a rovers player in a long time. 

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28 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Struggles with basics?

I would argue you could find 30 clips that support this view, and another 30 clips that show his first touch, short passing, crossing, shooting, strength, movement, dribbling skills etc are of a high level.

 

 

Yes, with those basics. The fact you also realise that at least half the time he struggles with said football principles means he’s a long way off.

I’n not expecting world beaters at Ewood these days, but I think I can still spot a top talent, watching BB week in week out for three years I am not seeing  a ‘high level’ player.

But again, I’ll be delighted if season 4 becomes the one he finally emerges, can only be positive for all parties.
 

Edited by Mattyblue
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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Yes, with those basics. The fact you also realise that at least half the time he struggles with said football principles means he’s a long way off.

I’n not expecting world beaters at Ewood these days, but I think I can still spot a top talent, watching BB week in week out for three years I am not seeing  a ‘high level’ player.

But again, I’ll be delighted if season 4 becomes the one he finally emerges, can only be positive for all parties.
 

No I was saying it would be easy to find clips to prove either side.

I guess the long and short of it; he’s got gradually better every month he’s been here.

 

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Just now, JBiz said:

I guess the long and short of it; he’s got gradually better every month he’s been here.

He had a purple patch (for him) after lockdown 1 until the end of last season,  but this season appears to have reverted to type. He's distinctly average. 

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The fee is everything. If he’d have come from a non league team for £200k for instance people would have been more patient. Having said that if he had have come from lower league he’d probably be where Joe Nuttall is now.

For that sort of money it’s not unreasonable to be expecting a player to be making a significant contribution in most games and to be the first name on the team sheet.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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7 minutes ago, JBiz said:

No I was saying it would be easy to find clips to prove either side.

I guess the long and short of it; he’s got gradually better every month he’s been here.

 

Don’t agree.

Thought he started the season fairly well (from a very low base), got injured and regressed again when he returned - all goes back to how he quickly loses form and confidence, another aspect of a player that, for me, won’t be ‘high level’ - then improved with the pressure off in a few dead rubbers.

 

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19 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Don’t agree.

Thought he started the season fairly well (from a very low base), got injured and regressed again when he returned - all goes back to how he quickly loses form and confidence, another aspect of a player that, for me, won’t be ‘high level’ - then improved with the pressure off in a few dead rubbers.

 

That’s fair enough, however I don’t agree.

I think, if you take into account his utilisation, being played out of position mainly and being injured when he was, amongst other factors like poor team/manager performance;

He isn’t far off. As someone suggested, AA bagged five in his first full season, being under-utilised and played out wide.

With no changes to formation or manager - it wouldn’t be too surprising if he really kicks on in his preferred central berth. 

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‘Not far off’ from what? A decent Championship player? I suppose so, but a ‘high level’ player? Still far off from what I’ve seen.

End of the day, he’ll be here, he’ll be playing, and AA and his goals in all likelihood won’t be, so we’ve all got to hope you’re right and he steps up.

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Just now, JBiz said:

He isn’t far off. As someone suggested, AA bagged five in his first full season, being under-utilised and played out wide.

That's where the comparison ends. BB will never score 29 goals in a season in the 2nd tier of English football. There's just no strikers instinct there. People will see how good AA is when BB plays up front as a lone striker for a season. Doesn't bear thinking about. 

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Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

That's where the comparison ends. BB will never score 29 goals in a season in the 2nd tier of English football. There's just no strikers instinct there. People will see how good AA is when BB plays up front as a lone striker for a season. Doesn't bear thinking about. 

The same argument was made that AA couldn’t play the Danny Graham way with Dack and we’d have to change style to accommodate his strengths.

Similarly to you, I’m not convinced BB will have the same nose for goal, but I’d like to see him centrally, for a full season, in a style that suits him (potentially with a better managers tactics) before I’d be willing to say he will never score 20+ Goals in a season

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I really want him to do well but a lot will need to fall in place for Brereton to hit heights you'd expect from a £7m signing.

He's quite good at running with the ball and taking on men but his shooting is completely sub par. He doesn't seem to have any ball striking ability. Most of his efforts are very tame. That's such a fundamental thing that he needs to be coached on. 

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6 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I really want him to do well but a lot will need to fall in place for Brereton to hit heights you'd expect from a £7m signing.

He's quite good at running with the ball and taking on men but his shooting is completely sub par. He doesn't seem to have any ball striking ability. Most of his efforts are very tame. That's such a fundamental thing that he needs to be coached on. 

Maybe not consistent enough to be compared to AA yet but I wish I’d scored 30+ yard chest and volleys regularly too..

 

(who am I kidding? I make Yeboah look like Kaba Diawara..)

 

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The idea of Brereton as the main man through the middle frightens me to death. I think he is the one player suited to Mowbray’s preferred system and particularly at the start of the season he looked a real outlet. I think his unorthodox but effective running with the ball is his strength. I don’t think he will ever have the end product to justify his fee though.

I’m not that up on world football these days, but I’d have thought he was miles away from being of a standard to play for Chile. I read some comments from their manager and it seemed his height was a factor... in all honesty I think his inclusion was more to do with the buzz on social media than merit. Still, will be a good experience and should aid his development. However, if there is an additional fee due to Forest if he gets a cap I’d really rather he didn’t get his token appearance.

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