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Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Don't think the signings so far (and the prospective ones) are good enough to talk of a promotion push. 

Downing: meh - struggling to see much benefit to this- apart from someone to take over from Conway collecting fines.

Johnson - could be the best signing of the lot - or the worst.  If he's hungry enough, he has the the pedigree.

Gallagher:  must have been better options out there but a steady acquisition who could well improve with games.  

Walton:  big lad, but career wise on a par with Raya and only on loan. No value in the signing.

'The lad from City' : Again, much needed height but unless its loan with a view, not really the big experienced CB we need.  

 

Window is average to poor so far.

Still short of an experienced CB (who's played there all career  - not ex midfield)

Still need an experienced keeper of some quality.  

A left back if we are playing wing backs.

 

 

 

 

Three different words in each of those sentences could’ve changed the prognosis to ‘good to very good’....a simple glass half full to glass half empty scenario.

I do however, agree that an experienced keeper AND cb are imperative to us having the depth and quality to push the top 6. In particular, the sight of Jermaine Defoe rising in between our two floundering cb’s to head in a cross in our 6yard box with no keeper flying out to clatter him yesterday should’ve rung every alarm bell possible to the management team....

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Haha some folk honestly, don’t have anything to prove to anyone, been spot on the money with a good few leaks yet aye I’m making it all up. Give yourself a rest. I’m not claiming to be anything specia

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Paul -

You sticking to your view that Mowbray needs to be be held responsible for a failed transfer policy, if by the close of the window we haven’t significantly improved the defence?

Edited by Mattyblue
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Saw the last 10-15 mins of the Rangers game last night. Hart seems to be pretty decent at left back and joining in attack and taking on players.

The sooner Mowbray nails down the first XI in the formation he wants to play, the better the players can get used to it. 

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18 minutes ago, unsall said:

12 mil,? Obviously you’re on about Bereton, do you also mean the 5 mil on Gallagher, who you said previously was a good buy?

A good buy in isolation yes. But not if that's all our money gone and we aren't going to see similar invested into essential areas and are now resorting to Ffp excuses. If Ffp is a problem preventing us from addressing GK and defence then we shouldn't have bought Gallagher.

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Paul -

You sticking to your view that Mowbray needs to be be held responsible for a failed transfer policy, if by the close of the window we haven’t significantly improved the defence?

100% - I think the players we have signed and are about to sign have been / are good. Contrary to what has been said on here the manager said he wanted to add championship experience and he’s done that in spades. The timing could’ve been better but in having cause to read a couple of other clubs mb’s last week I discovered that there’s far more worry elsewhere where virtually no players have been signed. The Wigan and Preston ones were particularly entertaining with both boards openly worried about relegation, slagging the ownership and looking enviously at OUR business!! (Did make me laugh)

As I said in May, the manager has stated his aim to challenge the top 6 and in order to do that you need quality in depth. We have that now imo in both Midfield and Forwards. BUT the addition of Walton and Ada will not adequately sure up our defence and therefore, if we stop there then for the first time TM will have actually failed and I will begin to lose faith in his ability to take my beloved club to where it wants to go.

Hes got significant financial muscle. Those painting us out to be penniless are so wrong. The infrastructure is growing daily. It wouldn’t even surprise me if they do a cash buy AFTER doing the exp keeper and Defender. 

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Just now, JHRover said:

A good buy in isolation yes. But not if that's all our money gone and we aren't going to see similar invested into essential areas and are now resorting to Ffp excuses. If Ffp is a problem preventing us from addressing GK and defence then we shouldn't have bought Gallagher.

They’ve got plenty of money and the plan is to sell Dack next summer anyway to stave off any potential threat. It’s believed by this time that B.B. Gally and Arma along with Butterworth and Rothwell will have developed sufficiently to step into those shoes and keep us moving forwards...

Here’s a funny one. People pay most money for young forwards who score goals. If those five kicked on over the next 3yrs you’ve probably got between £50-75m of assets after Dack. Sell one every summer and you remain competitive, keep ffp at bay and continue to build...maybe that’s why we spend our money on the academy and forwards ?

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Best laid plans and all that. Lot of assumptions in that post, especially if the form of one player is our future financial fall back as a club.

so we hope Dack continues in decent form, doesn’t suffer an injury and the other players actually do ‘kick on’. 

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5 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I think we have a huge hole at Right Wing, Arma isn’t consistent and Brereton is a huge question mark, and Bennett definitely isn’t good enough. 

Assuming we have a starting GK and CB ready to come in, this would be a great move.

None of those 3 you mentioned are wingers, therefore its not surprising we have a huge hole there! So---a genuine winger who will actually be picked----great!

We keep signing players but we don't fill the holes!

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

They’ve got plenty of money and the plan is to sell Dack next summer anyway to stave off any potential threat. It’s believed by this time that B.B. Gally and Arma along with Butterworth and Rothwell will have developed sufficiently to step into those shoes and keep us moving forwards...

Here’s a funny one. People pay most money for young forwards who score goals. If those five kicked on over the next 3yrs you’ve probably got between £50-75m of assets after Dack. Sell one every summer and you remain competitive, keep ffp at bay and continue to build...maybe that’s why we spend our money on the academy and forwards ?

I think the notion of what you are saying is pretty much correct but for me there are far too many variables in to football to plan ahead like that. Loss of form, injury, falling out with the hierarchy and other things could seriously affect any player and see their value plummet. Of course the converse is that having a really good season could see values increase.

I really hope that we are not planning for FFP by effectively rolling a dice.

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21 minutes ago, Biz said:

Debates? 

I don’t call a sweeping “we’ve wasted millions on substitutes” a debate TP.

A debate on the individual merits of the signings fair enough, or if you’re thinking squad value compared to the day TM took over, there is no comparison. 

Equally - many views ignore key factors in order to assume worry or deliberate problems. For example, arguably the three best recent graduates prior to last season - Raya/Lenihan/Nyambe are all defenders.... notice nobody mentioned that when the “venkys don’t buy defenders” half baked theory made us all slightly more close to death.

You're trying hard but its obvious that, as far as transfer windows go, we do not concentrate on areas of immediate need.

I don't see how that statement can possibly be contested. (but it will!)

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16 minutes ago, Biz said:

Debates? 

I don’t call a sweeping “we’ve wasted millions on substitutes” a debate TP.

A debate on the individual merits of the signings fair enough, or if you’re thinking squad value compared to the day TM took over, there is no comparison. 

Equally - many views ignore key factors in order to assume worry or deliberate problems. For example, arguably the three best recent graduates prior to last season - Raya/Lenihan/Nyambe are all defenders.... notice nobody mentioned that when the “venkys don’t buy defenders” half baked theory made us all slightly more close to death.

There's been plenty you're just cherry picking again to suit the 'negative' vibe.

I've mentioned many times we are batting from a position of relative strength compared to a few years ago in terms of squad value that's why imo most of our signings now whatever personal opinions on the individual players do actually strengthen the squad.

There's no getting away from the fact that to date Brereton is a 7 million pound sub and some fell Gallagher might be the similar and some also feel we'll be starting with those two plus AA on the bench so that's a fair argument only time will tell.

Correct about the defence but it's needed sound investment as well i mean we've had Travis and one or two others chipping away at a spot in midfield and Nuttall up front but that hasn't stopped signings and money spent to try and build up those areas. The value the young defenders are creating in the squad is wiped out by signings further up the pitch who are all probably bit part players as it stands so again it's a fair argument.

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Just now, JHRover said:

A good buy in isolation yes. But not if that's all our money gone and we aren't going to see similar invested into essential areas and are now resorting to Ffp excuses. If Ffp is a problem preventing us from addressing GK and defence then we shouldn't have bought Gallagher.

Hmm,think he’s going to sort out the goalkeeper situation and defenders, according to all reports, and still keep in FFP regs, which is not easy, other clubs have had to sell the grounds etc to comply, pointless to keep going back and blaming Venkys (we all know they screwed up) but whatever you think of them,we need them to keep pumping money in every month, yes I know we can be like Bournemouth,Leicester etc but teams like Fulham who are mega rich still get relegated, and you mention Bolton/ Bury and don’t want to be compared with, but we could easily end up like them if the owners decide to cut and run. I’m just grateful we aren’t in their position and very hopeful we can have a decent season. 

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4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I think we’ll do an experienced CB as well as those positions ??

Then you are deliberately setting up TM to fail!!!----according to your very own words on this MB.

Moreover you said it was impossible to do this before the window ended!!

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Just now, 47er said:

You're trying hard but its obvious that, as far as transfer windows go, we do not concentrate on areas of immediate need.

I don't see how that statement can possibly be contested. (but it will!)

When we came out of league one (12 months ago) we had only DG and Nuttall permanent forwards.

I would suggest at that point, we needed strikers. Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher later - we’re looking very strong up top.

Is it far fetched to expect the same at CB in 12 months? Or do we expect a shiny new promotion ready team signed up immediately?

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

They’ve got plenty of money and the plan is to sell Dack next summer anyway to stave off any potential threat. It’s believed by this time that B.B. Gally and Arma along with Butterworth and Rothwell will have developed sufficiently to step into those shoes and keep us moving forwards...

Here’s a funny one. People pay most money for young forwards who score goals. If those five kicked on over the next 3yrs you’ve probably got between £50-75m of assets after Dack. Sell one every summer and you remain competitive, keep ffp at bay and continue to build...maybe that’s why we spend our money on the academy and forwards ?

I thought the plan was to be promoted by next summer?

 

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12 minutes ago, yellowsubmarine said:

The sooner Mowbray nails down the first XI in the formation he wants to play, the better the players can get used to it. 

Well he's been struggling to nail it down for 18 months, so you figure he must be close.

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Just now, Biz said:

When we came out of league one (12 months ago) we had only DG and Nuttall permanent forwards.

I would suggest at that point, we needed strikers. Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher later - we’re looking very strong up top.

Is it far fetched to expect the same at CB in 12 months? Or do we expect a shiny new promotion ready team signed up immediately?

Samuel? I know we’ve all forgotten he exists.

Edited by Mattyblue
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Just now, Biz said:

When we came out of league one (12 months ago) we had only DG and Nuttall permanent forwards.

I would suggest at that point, we needed strikers. Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher later - we’re looking very strong up top.

Is it far fetched to expect the same at CB in 12 months? Or do we expect a shiny new promotion ready team signed up immediately?

You know you're missing the point there! Its about priorities!

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

They’ve got plenty of money and the plan is to sell Dack next summer anyway to stave off any potential threat. It’s believed by this time that B.B. Gally and Arma along with Butterworth and Rothwell will have developed sufficiently to step into those shoes and keep us moving forwards...

Here’s a funny one. People pay most money for young forwards who score goals. If those five kicked on over the next 3yrs you’ve probably got between £50-75m of assets after Dack. Sell one every summer and you remain competitive, keep ffp at bay and continue to build...maybe that’s why we spend our money on the academy and forwards ?

That's what i've been saying about 'front loading' to allow the conveyor belt to kick in although there are a lot of 'ifs' in it and as per with this lot the risk is huge because they are buying high with the 'hope' of selling higher.

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Just now, arbitro said:

I think the notion of what you are saying is pretty much correct but for me there are far too many variables in to football to plan ahead like that. Loss of form, injury, falling out with the hierarchy and other things could seriously affect any player and see their value plummet. Of course the converse is that having a really good season could see values increase.

I really hope that we are not planning for FFP by effectively rolling a dice.

Of course there are variables. But I didn’t even mention Travis, Buckley, Lenihan, JRC etc who could also command big fees. 

As for rolling the dice? Wow, they literally cannot win. If you / we want them to have the slightest chance of going up they have to spend money. How else are they going to generate the cash to stay within ffp? They are simply trying to grow as many assets as possible to offset the risk. Oppositely, we go back to living within our means, struggling to 15k fans through the gates and languish in the lower part of the championship?

Q - How many other clubs with similar gates and income and no parachute money are spending like we are and not selling their Crown Jewels every summer? 

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Best laid plans and all that. Lot of assumptions in that post, especially if the form of one player is our future financial fall back as a club.

so we hope Dack continues in decent form, doesn’t suffer an injury and the other players actually do ‘kick on’. 

Jesus mate, how is it humanly possible to generate any decent money in football other than sales or promotion to the PL? It’s risk and reward! What would you prefer we do? Reduce our budget to Wigan’s and hope we don’t go down every year? 

 

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Not sure why you are rowing with me and arbito. Nobody disagrees that we have to trade.

However, in the next 12 months, only Dack has the reputation to pull in a BIG fee. So it would need to be a different approach if his form fell of a cliff. I.e a sell off several of our better players, then we do ‘languish in the bottom end of the Championship’ anyway. Do you remember the fag end of the Bowyer era? The embargo and a succession of our best players gone, as was us knocking on the door of the top 6.

It is what it is, this being the madcap division it is, but it’s a risky business  projecting the sale of one player 12 months in advance as a strategy to avoid FFP.

Edited by Mattyblue
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Just now, 47er said:

Then you are deliberately setting up TM to fail!!!----according to your very own words on this MB.

Moreover you said it was impossible to do this before the window ended!!

Nope, I said you wouldn’t get a full new defence (bar Lenihan) and two keepers by the end of the window. And you won’t! 

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

 

Q - How many other clubs with similar gates and income and no parachute money are spending like we are and not selling their Crown Jewels every summer? 

Other clubs do it differently. They might not commit to as large fees as we have with Brereton and Gallagher but when they sign a player they do so for that player to immediately improve their team, not as a 'project'. They might sell someone every 12 months to offset it but then reinvest.

Last time we moved in a 3 season cycle. We spent good money and signed quality under Bowyer, let it grow and then slashed and burned in no time at all, refused to reinvest anything and ended up getting relegated. So we have done the selling part - bringing in more cash than most clubs will have done at this level - we just did it all at once with no ability to strengthen after it. You must be confident in Venkys if you don't think similar could happen next summer.

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