Tony Mowbray Discussion

[J*B]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The club's financial position shows that large transfer expenditure cannot be undertaken because we would breach the FFP rules ; that makes promotion very hard indeed for any manager - albeit not impossible - and having a safe pair of hands in charge becomes an attractive proposition

Whilst it’s clearly not the easiest thing to do, the only way to work FFP is by getting the timing right.
You need to have the opportunity to spend when you’re close to the playoffs and the way to do that is by either not spending in the seasons beforehand (allowing you more flexibility later down the line), making a massive sale then spending that money well or cheat the system by selling off assets to your owners. 

If we had the 12m now which Brereton and Gallagher have cost us, we would probably go up. 
Mowbray gambled on these signings, they haven’t worked. To be fair Waggot has played FFP well to ensure that we have a decent squad - but the injuries to Cunningham and Dack have essentially ruined the season. It will be another 3 years before we’ve recovered from a FFP standpoint and can go again. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, J*B said:

Whilst it’s clearly not the easiest thing to do, the only way to work FFP is by getting the timing right.
You need to have the opportunity to spend when you’re close to the playoffs and the way to do that is by either not spending in the seasons beforehand (allowing you more flexibility later down the line), making a massive sale then spending that money well or cheat the system by selling off assets to your owners. 

If we had the 12m now which Brereton and Gallagher have cost us, we would probably go up. 
Mowbray gambled on these signings, they haven’t worked. To be fair Waggot has played FFP well to ensure that we have a decent squad - but the injuries to Cunningham and Dack have essentially ruined the season. It will be another 3 years before we’ve recovered from a FFP standpoint and can go again. 

You're probably right. The one thing I would say is that cheating the system is likely to be very much harder now because some clubs - notably Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough - are watching what is going on at other clubs like hawks and are prepared to take legal action to ensure the EFL enforce the rules.

[Stuart]

15 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The club's financial position shows that large transfer expenditure cannot be undertaken because we would breach the FFP rules ; that makes promotion very hard indeed for any manager - albeit not impossible - and having a safe pair of hands in charge becomes an attractive proposition

So with FFP constraints, Mowbray has proven he is not the right man for the job.

Otherwise, it’s impossible to accept the FFP argument when the club continues to back a manager who has wasted £12m-£14m.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Stuart

[tomphil]

15 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The club's financial position shows that large transfer expenditure cannot be undertaken because we would breach the FFP rules ; that makes promotion very hard indeed for any manager - albeit not impossible - and having a safe pair of hands in charge becomes an attractive proposition

That's true but it's also completely leaving out the wasted money that should have been put to better use under this manager. There are no lengths you won't go to to twist it in his favour by the looks of it.

He's done some good stuff but on this one he/they have stuffed up badly - fact

The way it's now being used by some to justify keeping him IN the job is almost political in its spin.  Alistar Campbell would be proud.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, tomphil said:

That's true but it's also completely leaving out the wasted money that should have been put to better use under this manager. There are no lengths you won't go to to twist it in his favour by the looks of it.

He's done some good stuff but on this one he/they have stuffed up badly - fact

The way it's now being used by some to justify keeping him IN the job is almost political in its spin.  Alistar Campbell would be proud.

I'm trying to state the factual position as it now is with regard to the club's finances and the FFP implications - indeed there doesn't appear to be any disagreement.

Leading on from there any new manager will be working with considerable financial constraints and I've given my opinion that as a consequence (1) attracting proven big name managers like some of the names regularly mentioned on here is likely to be impossible and (2) preferring a novice in Damien Johnson to an experienced man like Tony Mowbray is probably a mistake. Of course you are free to give contrary opinions. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

So with FFP constraints, Mowbray has proven he is not the right man for the job.

Otherwise, it’s impossible to accept the FFP argument when the club continues to back a manager who has wasted £12m-£14m.

I don't really understand your post but if "the job" is to get promotion to the Premier League with possibly no net spend in the transfer market from now on - and possibly a requirement to turn a profit - then you must realise that "the right man" is going to be very hard to identify because it's going to be so tough to do.

[OldEwoodBlue]

At this rate we are resigned to at least another decade in the wilderness.

It's like a 2 horse race between Promotion to the PL & Administration.

Edited January 1, 2020 by OldEwoodBlue

[tomphil]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I'm trying to state the factual position as it now is with regard to the club's finances and the FFP implications - indeed there doesn't appear to be any disagreement.

Leading on from there any new manager will be working with considerable financial constraints and I've given my opinion that as a consequence (1) attracting proven big name managers like some of the names regularly mentioned on here is likely to be impossible and (2) preferring a novice in Damien Johnson to an experienced man like Tony Mowbray is probably a mistake. Of course you are free to give contrary opinions. 

Which is why i'd look to change at the end of the season regardless of where we finish. To just keep him because we've no money yet he's the one who's wasted it doesn't sit well with me at all. Only in football do you get away with that but yes i'd still expect him to steer us to midtable, i'd expect that whether we have massive funds or non though !

The other option though is if he pulled a masterstroke and flogged Armstrong for say 6 million thus giving a contribution to the FFP income. That would be the way to go in my book otherwise his method of being happy with just doing enough is enough will go on and on.  Until the whole squad is flogged off again of course.

[Mashed Potatoes]

You must have had a good New Years Eve to think we'll get £6m for Armstrong !

More seriously, Mowbray's contract runs to June 2022 so getting rid of him - and presumably some of his team - will cost a fair bit and mean that the new man is starting from an even worse place with FFP.  I can understand why what is looking like poor signings for big money is going to end up protecting the manager is upsetting for people but we have to start from where we are rather than where we would like to be.The question is who is going to want the job if the financial constraints are so tough; the difficulty is always going to be that anyone who is any good is going to have a choice as to where they go and we just don't look like that attractive a proposition to me.

[tomphil]

I did say 'masterstroke' !

Putting like that the only other option would be install Johnson or someone else similar and have TM as mentor for a season. Carry on the chain and see out his contract.

Doubt he'd be happy with that though unless it was his call although i do think there are plenty options to replace him for little money. We shop on the scrapheap remember and there's no compen.  Some of these guys just want a wage like Coyle and will work cheap, sadly we have the wrong people picking them.

We aren't at that point though i think we'll end up a bit like dingles under Ternant for another year or two.  Gates will end up similar as well.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

 and having a safe pair of hands in charge becomes an attractive proposition

Let's hope we get a pair then.

[Roverthechimp]

39 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's true but it's also completely leaving out the wasted money that should have been put to better use under this manager. There are no lengths you won't go to to twist it in his favour by the looks of it.

He's done some good stuff but on this one he/they have stuffed up badly - fact

The way it's now being used by some to justify keeping him IN the job is almost political in its spin.  Alistar Campbell would be proud.

For me that is the deciding factor. Gallagher i think is a TM signing and, imo, not a total waste of money though needs to get goals.

BB i suspect is not a TM signing.

If both are TM signings (ie they were on his "want/must" list) then he should probably be dismissed.

[Stuart]

54 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't really understand your post but if "the job" is to get promotion to the Premier League with possibly no net spend in the transfer market from now on - and possibly a requirement to turn a profit - then you must realise that "the right man" is going to be very hard to identify because it's going to be so tough to do.

You don’t understand that you can’t hide behind FFP as preventing success when you spend £14m on players that don’t improve the first team?

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

You don’t understand that you can’t hide behind FFP as preventing success when you spend £14m on players that don’t improve the first team?

I've already answered this in my previous post on this thread

[DE.]

Mowbray himself said 70 points is the minimum target in September: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17930673.where-aiming-year--mowbray-outlines-rovers-target/

In that article he also talks about getting funding in January (which now appears to be backtracked on, a common theme this season sadly with the 'defenders are coming' fiasco from the summer). 

[Husky]

He's STILL here then?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Roverthechimp said:

For me that is the deciding factor. Gallagher i think is a TM signing and, imo, not a total waste of money though needs to get goals.

BB i suspect is not a TM signing.

If both are TM signings (ie they were on his "want/must" list) then he should probably be dismissed.

I'm similar and I actually don't mind Gallagher. Brereton I try to stay away from having a pop at him as a player, just think he's out his depth at the min.

I'll question both signings though based on the amount of money and where it should have been spent. 

I think though imo they've looked at the academy and seen plenty midfielders and a couple of defenders who should come through but no strikers.

That's led to the big money panicky maybe, young striker signings. Someone has done a good 'advising' job again upstairs.

Edited January 1, 2020 by tomphil

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I've already answered this in my previous post on this thread

So you did understand then? Strange comment.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, tomphil said:

I'm similar and I actually don't mind Gallagher. Brereton I try to stay away from having a pop at him as a player, just think he's out his depth at the min.

I'll question both signings though based on the amount of money and where it should have been spent. 

I think though imo they've looked at the academy and seen plenty midfielders and a couple of defenders who should come through but no strikers.

That's led to the big money panicky maybe, young striker signings. Someone has done a good 'advising' job again upstairs.

Interesting point.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

So you did understand then? Strange comment.

I had no difficulty understanding Tomphil's post; yours on the other hand................

[bigbrandjohn]

Perhaps a move like this with Mowbray would provide a greater stability for our club going forward and silence the doubters. You can’t make this up. 
 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/what-a-joke-plenty-of-ipswich-town-fans-react-to-big-paul-lambert-news/

[Stuart]

48 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I had no difficulty understanding Tomphil's post; yours on the other hand................

[bluefred]

Time to go Mowbray, you’ve out stayed your welcome.

[davulsukur]

Doesn't have a clue as to what he is doing.

[Husky]

Needless to say we aren't going to score 3 goals in the last 25 without reply.

So we're now on a 4 game winless run.

Apart from the relegation favourites, when a team gets to around 5 games without a win murmurs start regarding the manager.

Winter is coming.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Husky