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Tony Mowbray Discussion


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Plenty of time during the first 100 minutes of the Play-off Final last night to reflect on what an absolute plank Mowbray is.

If he had kept Raya, gone balls out to bring Harrison Reed back for another season on a loan with option to buy and left Walton, Johnson and Gallagher well alone then...

1) we would be financially in a better place

2) Travis and Reed would have been the best central midfield pairing in the division- probably worth at least half a dozen points.

3) Buckley, Rankin-Costello, Vale, Davenport and Chapman would have had more game time and we would have seen a lot more of the promise shown in the fag end of last season and I bet at least one would have kicked on as a challenger for a first team regular slot

4) Raya would have dropped clangers but less than Walton and would have pulled of saves Walton can only dream of- probably worth at least another six points.

5) We would have made the Play-offs even despite Mowbray cock ups gifting away points left right and centre.

 

I am not following the transfer thread this summer.

If it is anything like last summer we will be materially worse off at the end of the window than we were at the start. In fact I hope Mowbray has been superglued away from phone, fax and internet and the tea lady told to go get a new keeper.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If there is any truth that we are still waiting to know our budget, so we can plan our recruitment strategy then... why the hell does Mowbray put up with this crap?

If he does have a budget but it means we have to sell to buy then we are sat waiting for a bid to come in for Arma. Sorry but we can’t wait for this to bring in a keeper. It’s ultimatum time: back me or sack me.

Cash now for a keeper, repaid when Arma goes.

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

If there is any truth that we are still waiting to know our budget, so we can plan our recruitment strategy then... why the hell does Mowbray put up with this crap?

If he does have a budget but it means we have to sell to buy then we are sat waiting for a bid to come in for Arma. Sorry but we can’t wait for this to bring in a keeper. It’s ultimatum time: back me or sack me.

Cash now for a keeper, repaid when Arma goes.

In my interpretation we are in one of two scenarios right now.

The first is that Mowbray and Waggott are still waiting for communication and answers from India. Neither have any idea as to budgets or plans moving forward because there has been no summit meeting and the owners haven't approved a budget. This explains the lack of season tickets, the lack of transfer activity, the lack of communication from all levels of the club and the fact that all out of contract players have been released including Downing even though the manager would have liked to have kept at least one of them

The second is that Mowbray has been told his budget, but this is either a negative budget, meaning he has to sell to buy anyone, or at best he is limited to frees and loans only, which explains the lack of incomings and the dull and uninspiring names we have been linked to, many of which directly contradict Mowbray's own preferences. As such it will be waiting and hoping that we get some favourable loans.

If the answer is the first set of circumstances, then even Mowbray's patience will be being tested to the limit right now and his resignation cannot be far away. If the answer is the second set then he'll stick it out for now, but probably come under extreme pressure from the fanbase if we are struggling next season.

It's hard to have much sympathy for Mowbray really when he has overseen transfer policy and led us into this disastrous situation of having no keeper and 1 CB on the eve of a new season. Either he is to blame for that or he has allowed those conditions to develop under his watch. Either way he should be accountable for it.

 

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7 hours ago, JHRover said:

In my interpretation we are in one of two scenarios right now.

The first is that Mowbray and Waggott are still waiting for communication and answers from India. Neither have any idea as to budgets or plans moving forward because there has been no summit meeting and the owners haven't approved a budget. This explains the lack of season tickets, the lack of transfer activity, the lack of communication from all levels of the club and the fact that all out of contract players have been released including Downing even though the manager would have liked to have kept at least one of them

The second is that Mowbray has been told his budget, but this is either a negative budget, meaning he has to sell to buy anyone, or at best he is limited to frees and loans only, which explains the lack of incomings and the dull and uninspiring names we have been linked to, many of which directly contradict Mowbray's own preferences. As such it will be waiting and hoping that we get some favourable loans.

If the answer is the first set of circumstances, then even Mowbray's patience will be being tested to the limit right now and his resignation cannot be far away. If the answer is the second set then he'll stick it out for now, but probably come under extreme pressure from the fanbase if we are struggling next season.

It's hard to have much sympathy for Mowbray really when he has overseen transfer policy and led us into this disastrous situation of having no keeper and 1 CB on the eve of a new season. Either he is to blame for that or he has allowed those conditions to develop under his watch. Either way he should be accountable for it.

 

There are 3 and a half weeks to the first league game so we are hardly on the eve of the new season. Tim Flowers made his debut for us 2 days after signing.

The owners create the circumstances in which the manager - whoever it is - is required to operate. In my opinion they make it more difficult for the manager.

 

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If i had to take a punt on it i'd wager its been indicated to them the owners are ok with a similar wage budget to last season. So spending wise at the moment he's looking at whatever headroom there was in that last time plus the room created from those that left recently.

So he's being very careful and no doubt waiting on Downing and maybe another enquiry or two.  We know he plays the waiting game plus as pointed out by someone else the owners finance men like to see a few weeks wages saved were possible. Stupid on both counts when you need players but that's were we are at. 

Then of course there is always the chance that suddenly a bit extra becomes available at the last min if some of the 'investors' decide to take a punt. Although that rarely gets put to good use in a panic situation.

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9 hours ago, JHRover said:

If the answer is the first set of circumstances, then even Mowbray's patience will be being tested to the limit right now and his resignation cannot be far away. If the answer is the second set then he'll stick it out for now, but probably come under extreme pressure from the fanbase if we are struggling next season.

It's hard to have much sympathy for Mowbray really when he has overseen transfer policy and led us into this disastrous situation of having no keeper and 1 CB on the eve of a new season. Either he is to blame for that or he has allowed those conditions to develop under his watch. Either way he should be accountable for it.

Agree with your summary.

Scenario A and Mowbray should walk, as should Waggott. In that scenario, neither is valued by the owners and they are being expected do their jobs with both hands tied behind their backs.

This is highly likely the correct scenario as Venkys have treated every manager with this kind of contempt. Some even worse. It’s almost inevitable that under these circumstances we will end up with people “happy” to operate in these circumstances. Without getting into a debate comparing their abilities and personalities, Kean, Bowyer, and evening Mowbray were/are never getting a better gig so why would they rock the boat. It was only when they fell out with fans (and possibly players) that things began to change.

Tony is certainly the fans favourite of all of Venkys’ managers and he has a history of allowing the senior players a big say in how the team is run. No way will he have the same backlash. He holds the record of the worst post-war run of games of any Rovers manager. The response? A poll on here with about 90% negative rating until he won a couple of games and it went down to about 60%. Other than that? Nothing. And never, ever, any dissent in the ground. “He’s doing a good job under the circumstances”; “What do you expect when he has no money?”(cough, £12m, cough); “Who else is there?”.

I’m not sure fans would even turn next season. They won’t be allowed in to begin with so if we are near the bottom then once fans are back any grumbling will be shouted down “get behind the lads”; “they need our support”; “get off Brereton’s back, it’s not his fault he cost £7m”. When fans are allowed in there will be no groups and no chanting or singing :wacko: - presumably stewards will frogmarch non-compliant shouty fans out of the ground - wearing bio hazard suits and using cattle prods of course - so even less noise than before, let alone negative noise.

As for accountability... to whom?

Waggott? Nope

Venkys? Nope

Fans? Only on here, and only when the wind is blowing in the wrong direction. In the ground, “Tony, sort it out” is the kind of ‘abuse’ Mowbray is ‘subjected to’.

At Rovers in 2020, Mowbray is accountable to Mowbray. That means getting his kids through university and ensuring a comfortable retirement. Nothing wrong with that, we’d all try to do the same. It’s just that football clubs require success. Success relative to their history and their fans’ expectations of course but... Venkys are allowing our history to be forgotten, while Mowbray and Waggott are busy dimming expectations by telling us what a small club we are and how we can’t compete with the big boys (like Brentford) and that we don’t have enough ‘committed’ fans.

Meanwhile they “do the right thing by players” by handing out month-long extensions and operating a form-busting rotation policy and decrying naive youngsters (keeping the senior players onside and therefore the dressing room).

And Scenario B - he does know his budget? Well, it’s entirely in his hands then and time is of the essence. So ?  or get off the ?.

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, philipl said:

Yet again v Doncaster, Mowbray comprehensively lost the HT team talk to the opposition boss.

Between a third and a half of all Rovers team talks result in Rovers being out thought and out fought in the second half.

Does this not mean that between half and two-thirds of half time 'talks' have the opposite effect?

Rovers have tended to be pretty fast out of the blocks at the start of games over the past 12/18 months, does Mowbray take credit for that then?

 

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23 minutes ago, philipl said:

Yet again v Doncaster, Mowbray comprehensively lost the HT team talk to the opposition boss.

Between a third and a half of all Rovers team talks result in Rovers being out thought and out fought in the second half.

Interestingly he beat the opposition boss 3-2 on the pitch!

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11 minutes ago, rigger said:

The object of the Rovers game at the moment is to entice fans back, winning does that. Winning in style does it more.

And yet a neutral would probably look at Rovers' results since lockdown and think "Bet they are good to watch", we've certainly scored (and conceded) a fair few goals in the last 12 or so games.

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9 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

And yet a neutral would probably look at Rovers' results since lockdown and think "Bet they are good to watch", we've certainly scored (and conceded) a fair few goals in the last 12 or so games.

 

10 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

And yet a neutral would probably look at Rovers' results since lockdown and think "Bet they are good to watch", we've certainly scored (and conceded) a fair few goals in the last 12 or so games.

I don’t think there is a great market, in neutrals watching the Rovers 

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2 hours ago, rigger said:

The object of the Rovers game at the moment is to entice fans back, winning does that. Winning in style does it more.

It’s sad but I honestly believe if we won 3 games in a row 5-0 at Ewood we wouldn’t see that much of a difference, we’ve lost 10,000 home supporters who I can’t ever see returning unless we get back to the Prem and even then I don’t know. #VenkysOut always ??

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4 minutes ago, Butty said:

It’s sad but I honestly believe if we won 3 games in a row 5-0 at Ewood we wouldn’t see that much of a difference, we’ve lost 10,000 home supporters who I can’t ever see returning unless we get back to the Prem and even then I don’t know. #VenkysOut always ??

I totally agree. When I said entice fans back, I was probably being over optimistic. We could do with stopping loosing fans.

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38 minutes ago, rigger said:

OK I am slow, what was the point.

It is linked to what Butty has said above. Short of winning every game 5-0, being regularly involved in games that finish 3-2 or 4-3 either way isn't a bad way of being entertained really. I do agree with you that winning is everything and loved the '1-0' seasons under Howard Kendall but quite a few people here in Scotland have remarked how often Rovers seem to be involved in high scoring games these days. If I were a visitor to the north west looking for a game to take in (once fans are allowed back) I would certainly be tempted by a potential goal-fest more than I would a tight defensive game. 

Edited by oldjamfan1
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9 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Sadly, IMO, the club has lost virtually all its spark and appeal.

I can't see any imagination, initiative or excitement.

I think Waggott and Mowbray are as dull as ditchwater and therein lies a huge part of the problem.

While its difficult to argue with that Merce, I have actually enjoyed plenty of games over the past few weeks. Maybe I was just so glad to see live football again, albeit on a screen rather than at Ewood I'm delirious?

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11 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

It is linked to what Butty has said above. Short of winning every game 5-0, being regularly involved in games that finish 3-2 or 4-3 either way isn't a bad way of being entertained really. I do agree with you that winning is everything and loved the '1-0' seasons under Howard Kendall but quite a few people here in Scotland have remarked how often Rovers seem to be involved in high scoring games these days. If I were a visitor to the north west looking for a game to take in (once fans are allowed back) I would certainly be tempted by a potential goal-fest more than I would a tight defensive game. 

But the thing is we are not trying to entice day trippers. We are trying to get absent Rovers fans back. Revamping Mowbrays same old plan Season after season will not do it. I do not profess to having the answer, but there are people in highly paid positions who should try to find one.

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5 minutes ago, rigger said:

But the thing is we are not trying to entice day trippers. We are trying to get absent Rovers fans back. Revamping Mowbrays same old plan Season after season will not do it. I do not profess to having the answer, but there are people in highly paid positions who should try to find one.

New owners. Nothing less will bring those 10k people back now. Its alright getting a full house for a promotion lap of honour but we could barely get 25k Rovers fans on when we were at the top of our game most weeks so week-in-week-out in the second division it isn't going to happen (hence the 5-0 analogy above). For all his faults Mowbray has been the best of a very bad bunch over the past decade, the common denominator is our absentee owners.

How we get rid of them I don't have the answers to either mate, I'm afraid.

Maybe we just need to have one lucky season... 

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