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He's a good solid manager nothing more nothing less but there are vital ingredients still missing. In truth promotion (and relegation) aside he's not really done anything the inexperienced Gary Bowyer didn't do.  Apart from fill up the infracstructure with his mates,spend millions on single players and increas running costs again of course.

Squad is similar strength wise arguably apart from a Rhodes, style is still bland and over cautious most of the time still. We  have the tools to be challenging towards the top 6 but still look a million miles away. So not much has changed from 5 years ago really but of course we have to consider the intervening years.

TM has had to build it back to that after taking over a mess although we probably arrived at that point over a year ago. Which brings me to what is really the remit here and why does he never seen under any urgency to push it on at all ?

He could well have a job for life here.

 

Edited by tomphil
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Thing is I don't believe Mowbray is over cautious. He's in-balanced. I wouldn't have a problem with an over cautious approach if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Mowbray has full backs absolutely bombing forwards, even when they aren't offering a huge amount in terms of goals scored. Then unless he has the trio of Holtby, Johnson and Rothwell all on song in the middle the midfield gets stuck with too many players who pass sideways, but still don't offer that overall discipline that will protect the defence. So it's neither here nor there really. An attacking philosophy not adapted when we don't have the right players available. The only tactical tweaks i've seen Mowbray make at all this season is JRC in for Nyambe as he can cross a ball better. Apart from this is just been players with different skill sets slotting into the same roles. 

When we've got everyone available it has kinda clicked. The rest of the time we've been passing the ball around a lot. Looking a bit cautious in midfield. A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

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Just now, ben_the_beast said:

 if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Warnock has achieved a solid defence almost immediately,  mowbray hasnt in 4 years.  

He's either taking the piss or doesn't know how...either way he should just go.

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9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm under no delusion whatsoever that this will actually happen with Swag in charge, unless the owners decide to take a closer look at what's going on and cease to be taken in by the 'we're bang on course" routine.

However whilst I don't think it will happen, the day you don't think a manager who isn't up to scratch SHOULD leave is the day you should give it up as a bad job!

I'm really fed up now, normally I can't stand international breaks but I took a complete two week break from Rovers news, didn't miss worrying about Moggasaurus in the slightest, and returned to it full of idle curiosity wondering if a two week break would have healed some limbs and recharged our batteries.

Sadly not it seems. In that two week period I'd almost forgotten how bad in general we are under Mowbray.

I look forward to international breaks now. At least Rovers can't ruin your weekend when they're not playing  !

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1 hour ago, ben_the_beast said:

Thing is I don't believe Mowbray is over cautious. He's in-balanced. I wouldn't have a problem with an over cautious approach if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Mowbray has full backs absolutely bombing forwards, even when they aren't offering a huge amount in terms of goals scored. Then unless he has the trio of Holtby, Johnson and Rothwell all on song in the middle the midfield gets stuck with too many players who pass sideways, but still don't offer that overall discipline that will protect the defence. So it's neither here nor there really. An attacking philosophy not adapted when we don't have the right players available. The only tactical tweaks i've seen Mowbray make at all this season is JRC in for Nyambe as he can cross a ball better. Apart from this is just been players with different skill sets slotting into the same roles. 

When we've got everyone available it has kinda clicked. The rest of the time we've been passing the ball around a lot. Looking a bit cautious in midfield. A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

It's not the vibrant front foot pressing style he began talking up in summer though we are straight back to sit back and possession based stuff.

Obviously availability might affect that and it is a difficult tactic to employ every game twice a week but some teams manage it, Only really Travis missing affects it in midfield because in the others he's collected don't have that intensity. He's always expected his full backs to do the work and try and provide the quality yet never really recruited for that purpose.

So in essence to me he is over cautious 80% of the time because add into that he alters for the opposition as well. He's gone to Luton and decided not to go after them.

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2 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

This is a great point.

There is very little concern shown on here for our full back area yet every single team we play looks to exploit this area and the majority get joy there.

A personnel or tactical issue?

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Just now, LDRover said:

There is very little concern shown on here for our full back area

Not a lot we can do mate, but I've mentioned a few times we are exposed down our flanks. That's the 'beauty' of 4-3-3, very little cover for our FB's (who bomb on anyway). The thinking presumably is that out attacking threat will compensate for our openness at the back. However, apart from the few teams we've hammered we are toothless up front.

6 goals in 8 games against everyone that isn't Cov, Wyc, QPR and Derby. Pretty shite really. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Not a lot we can do mate, but I've mentioned a few times we are exposed down our flanks. That's the 'beauty' of 4-3-3, very little cover for our FB's (who bomb on anyway). The thinking presumably is that out attacking threat will compensate for our openness at the back. However, apart from the few teams we've hammered we are toothless up front.

6 goals in 8 games against everyone that isn't Cov, Wyc, QPR and Derby. Pretty shite really. 

 

Agreed.

The thing is, it's not a recent issue either, it seems the opposition target the area regardless of set up.

I used to work with a woman married to a Sheff Weds scout this will have been about 5 years ago now. He had been watching us a couple of times prior to us playing them so I asked what he had noted, 'get the ball behind the full backs early' was the response.

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Just now, LDRover said:

Agreed.

The thing is, it's not a recent issue either, it seems the opposition target the area regardless of set up.

I used to work with a woman married to a Sheff Weds scout this will have been about 5 years ago now. He had been watching us a couple of times prior to us playing them so I asked what he had noted, 'get the ball behind the full backs early' was the response.

Yes, it’s an obvious flaw in that system. I also reckon that the only way you can fit Rothwell in our team is to play 5 in midfield.

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Just now, Blue blood said:

The question I ask myself is do we look any more likely now 3 years on to get promoted then when we first came up. And whilst on paper yes, on the pitch it's a clear no. And if for no other reason than that he needs to go. 

No! 

Mowbray has to go. Did you not see that performance on Saturday and the previous 20 performances? 

If we hadn't won QPR all the happy clappers would surely be questioning Mowbray? 

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"When we've got everyone available..."

Wow just watch us go!

Although perhaps in reality those game changers might end up on the bench with two holding midfielders players instead at home, two centre forwards out on the wing and a little striker through the middle. Quite possibly I might now be that dinosaur, that I thought my dad was, when he went on about inside and outside forwards, two wingers whose job was to get to bye-line and knock it back, with three at the back. I recall Harry Chapman standing one up for SG to nod in, seemed a fairly reasonable way to break down your opponents and score. 

Though also I genuinely do not believe he knows his best starting line up, get's too engrossed in systems and opponents. In my opinion we get better results and performances when he gets forced into a corner and has no alternatives. 

Sigh. 

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23 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

No! 

Mowbray has to go. Did you not see that performance on Saturday and the previous 20 performances? 

If we hadn't won QPR all the happy clappers would surely be questioning Mowbray? 

Sounds like you are disagreeing with what I wrote but I actually was saying he should get the boot... 

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I will give Mowbray this.

He has come up finally with the 4-3-3 which he has drilled into the squad so that subs don't disrupt the flow and increasingly fit into the system.

4-3-3 really suits rotating Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong and Elliott and Travis will take to it like a duck to water.

The big question is where Dack fits.. but what a nice problem to have when we eventually have it.

This is essential with a huge squad with multiple players coming through the Academy complementing the 25 named players.

Having such a monster squad is essential this season and Norwich are less well set up for handling absences than we are currently.

He got away with 3 against 5 in midfield against Barnsley because man for man we had the better players all over the park.

The expanded bench and ability to use 5 subs helped Rovers a lot today. It meant we had specialists for all positions and arguably we didn't get disrupted by either injury.

I expect to see two pairs of subs to be used regularly throughout the season by Mowbray now with the changed rule except when we have injuries.

So kudos to Mowbray for the system and foresight.

Edited by philipl
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If we are winning and doing well i wouldn't be changing things just to fir Dack back in.  We are bigger than 1 player although its not looked that way at times.

It might be a dilemma but the team comes first and no doubt at some point in the future we might be relying on him again. That would signal we haven't moved forwards though.

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4 hours ago, philipl said:

I will give Mowbray this.

He has come up finally with the 4-3-3 which he has drilled into the squad so that subs don't disrupt the flow and increasingly fit into the system.

4-3-3 really suits rotating Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong and Elliott and Travis will take to it like a duck to water.

The big question is where Dack fits.. but what a nice problem to have when we eventually have it.

This is essential with a huge squad with multiple players coming through the Academy complementing the 25 named players.

Having such a monster squad is essential this season and Norwich are less well set up for handling absences than we are currently.

He got away with 3 against 5 in midfield against Barnsley because man for man we had the better players all over the park.

The expanded bench and ability to use 5 subs helped Rovers a lot today. It meant we had specialists for all positions and arguably we didn't get disrupted by either injury.

I expect to see two pairs of subs to be used regularly throughout the season by Mowbray now with the changed rule except when we have injuries.

So kudos to Mowbray for the system and foresight.

Football is becoming like Rugby League were the strength of your bench can dictate the outcome of the game.

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Where Dack fits in 4-3-3 is either in Holtbys role, where he will be second choice or in Armstrong where he will be 2nd or 3rd choice even to start with. Maybe he can compete with Rothwell either. He's good baller so he could maintain some level of ball retention in midfield, but where he would excel would be arriving in the box on the end of stuff. A great player to have coming back in. Will give the opposition a huge problem. 

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The squad has a nice balance to it, the long game recruitment is starting to look really good thanks to Gallagher and Brereton now delivering and the shape we are adopting.

Armstrong firing on all cylinders.

Having the likes of Dolan and Elliott along with Brereton and Gallagher all vying for 2 wide forward positions is a lovely little battle.

Then you have the likes of Holtby, Rothwell, Dack, Trybull, Johnson, Travis and co options centrally.

Still think we are relatively low on options at the back but Williams and Wharton are proving (when fit) to be decent options with Nyambe and Douglas great first choice full backs.

Kaminski looks inspired, his presence seems to really steady and organise those in front of him.

Huge credit due there, I’ll be surprised if we go up still but I think top 6 is now something we should be disappointed if we don’t achieve with what we have. I don’t think we’ll be far off either 

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Hate being Scrooge but we need plan B for playing the better teams as the 4-3-3 doesn't, or hasn't yet worked against them. 

That said I am pleased there actually is a plan A which works and suits the majority of our squad. Bereton and Rothwell and Holtby all look much better in this system and long term (assuming  we can keep the bulk of the squad together) it seems a good plan to have. 

We do however have to find a system that causes the better teams problems. Not sure what that is. Perhaps a return to 4-2-3-1? 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

We do however have to find a system that causes the better teams problems. Not sure what that is. Perhaps a return to 4-2-3-1? 

                   Kaminski

Nymabe   Lenihan Wharton Douglas

          Travis Holtby Rothwell

                Dack  Elliott

                 Armstrong

 

Obviously you could mix and match the players but it might be worth a do. 

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