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An incredibly naive approach and attitude to the game. Just like Mowbray's delusions of replicating Leeds. He thinks he's better than he is and has repeatedly failed to learn from mistakes during his career.

He's very lucky to be operating in the Ewood vacuum surrounded by acolytes who lap up every word and question nothing.

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17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

An incredibly naive approach and attitude to the game. Just like Mowbray's delusions of replicating Leeds. He thinks he's better than he is and has repeatedly failed to learn from mistakes during his career.

He's very lucky to be operating in the Ewood vacuum surrounded by acolytes who lap up every word and question nothing.

Nailed it.

You'd think he'd want better for himself wouldn't you. It blows my mind how you wouldn't want to improve at your job. Perhaps ignorance is bliss 

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29 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Why Mowbray feels Huddersfield Town's style will suit Rovers | Lancashire Telegraph

If it wasn't for the opposition we'd beat everyone. 

He's also on about the 'journey' again. 

Mowbray : "we can be more ruthless away from home because teams attack us and that leaves space in-behind them for us to exploit"

Was he at Stoke ??

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On 27/12/2020 at 11:51, jim mk2 said:

Apart from a disastrous run of results similar to his time at Coventry, what will it take for Mowbray to depart ?

He had one. Nothing happened.

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2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

How often do we get to the byeline and cross it into the 6 yard box?

We have amongst the highest shots in the Championship but they are rarely clear-cut chances. 

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

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3 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Now this clearly isn't true. In fact the evidence refutes this quite considerably. I could write an essay on this but just three quick pieces of evidence. 

1) Top teams are always built from the back. Manure under Fergie, Chelski under the annoying one, Rovers under King Kenny. Sure the SAS got the headlines and were a huge factor but it was built on a solid foundation of defense - Berg, Hendry, Le Saux, Flowers etc. Boring boring Arsenal under George Graham. Liverpool's success under Klopp finally came when they shelled out for a top class centre back and goalkeeper. Coincidence? No. Since forever good teams have always been built on a solid defence. 

2) The defence issue also works the other way too. What does Big Sam do to keep teams up - tighten the defence. Warnock likewise kept a fair few teams up with a similar strategy. Heck Hughes when he first came in started by stabilising the defence. Teams stay up and are successful built on a good defense. 

3) The evidence at Rovers clearly doesn't back up your point. We are no better off with this new style so there is no proof that it has improved us or our chances to get promotion. In fact we are worse off then last year so if anything it has hindered. Then take the previous example under Coyle - we scored a fair few but leaked more (as I recall). The evidence at our own club shows that this attacking style doesn't lead to more success. 

I may still be on ignore (a tad unjustly as there's been no personal attacks but there we go) but regardless I think it's worth highlighting the myth that this attacking football has improved our chances of success. 

 

 

Great post. The main defence of Mowbray seems to be underpinned by an assumption based on little if any evidence that this current style will naturally level out at a top 6 (well we need to pick up points at a rate beyond a top 6 level) to enable us to compete.

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28 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

Good for the possession stats though. Isn’t that what counts?

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3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Attacking means you win more games’

Well there you have it, simple ay? Think we all (me certainly included) need to stop letting threads getting derailed by someone with such a simplistic outlook.

If Dyche's Burnley side played "attacking" football they'd be relegated pronto. You have to score to win, but a solid defence gives those players usually responsible for goals more confidence to play as they know if something doesn't come off they are less likely to be punished for it.

Anyway, back to Mowbray. Although higher than his past 2 seasons he's averaging less than 1.5 points per game; the absolute minimum needed to reach the playoffs. He will need to pick up 1.6+ over the remainder of the season to get there. Elliott, Dack, Armstrong, and now apparently Brereton have the talent to score plenty. Kaminski is an upgrade on recent keepers Rovers have had, but Mowbray's baffling trait of not being able to sort out a back 4 will be Rovers undoing. 

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1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

Quite. And it all comes to Mogga   bugger all.

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On 28/12/2020 at 13:25, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's impossible to guess who they will appoint, up to the very last second. 

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

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4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

I'd be happy if they went  back to Coventry, Robins is a decent manager in my opinion. 

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Not a great record for the calendar year.

1 more loss than wins. Less than half the available points have been picked up (56/126), a lot of goals conceded as well.

Leeds went up last season conceding just 35 goals from 46 games. We've shipped 61 from our last 42. 

The top 9 teams in the Championship conceded less goals across 46 games than that.

More evidence that Mowbray isn't the right man for the job. His disregard for our defensive frailties is constantly biting us in the arse.

Screenshot_20201229-160053_Twitter.jpg

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42 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

Does it matter who the next manager is? Ya obviously, you remember Owen Coyle? 

If you told me we were getting Bilic, I would be all for it. As I said though, they have yet to make a managerial appointment of any intent. 

Also, to say Mowbray "definitely isn't working out" , isn't entirely accurate. I would say it definitely wasn't working out if we were in a relegation battle. 

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3 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Why Mowbray feels Huddersfield Town's style will suit Rovers | Lancashire Telegraph

If it wasn't for the opposition we'd beat everyone. 

He's also on about the 'journey' again. 

I've got a replica shirt from " Philosphy Football " , it's got a quote from John Paul Sartre on the front -

" Everything in football is complicated by the presence of the opposing team ".

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Does it matter who the next manager is? Ya obviously, you remember Owen Coyle? 

If you told me we were getting Bilic, I would be all for it. As I said though, they have yet to make a managerial appointment of any intent. 

Also, to say Mowbray "definitely isn't working out" , isn't entirely accurate. I would say it definitely wasn't working out if we were in a relegation battle. 

I dont really get why a manager who had publically declared an intention to get into the top 6 18 months ago would only be "not working out" in your opinion should he be in a relegation battle, surely not working out would indicate an inability to meet expectations? If a manager of a title challenger failed to keep a side in title contention, would that not warrant dismissal as long as it didnt lead to a relegation scrap? We havent been in genuine contention throughout that time, even this season when further resources and time have been afforded to Mowbray, we simply cant smash that glass ceiling.

I have never been fond of the "what if we get another Coyle" argument because if that is the case, holding off from sacking a manager out of fear of disaster is merely kicking the can down the line. But it wasnt just appointing an inept manager, one who had no interests in team shape and with a horrendous recent CV, with the added issue of splitting the fan base due to history with Burnley that relegated us. It all started 2 years before relegation, a sale of key assets (Cairney, Gestede then Rhodes 6 months later and Hanley and Duffy 12 months later) replaced under embargo by crap we could piece together for 10k or less a week, Guthrie, Delfoenso etc, it can be easy to overestimate our vulnerability to potential disaster should Mowbray be removed. Last time, it took a fire sale, a transfer embargo and a particularly inept and divisive managerial appointment, even if we made a poor managerial choice, which I can understand a fear of, it would take a lot to put us in serious danger of relegation, whereas the gap is less to the top 6. The balance of risk v reward seems in our favour.

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9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont really get why a manager who had publically declared an intention to get into the top 6 18 months ago would only be "not working out" in your opinion should he be in a relegation battle, surely not working out would indicate an inability to meet expectations? If a manager of a title challenger failed to keep a side in title contention, would that not warrant dismissal as long as it didnt lead to a relegation scrap? We havent been in genuine contention throughout that time, even this season when further resources and time have been afforded to Mowbray, we simply cant smash that glass ceiling.

I have never been fond of the "what if we get another Coyle" argument because if that is the case, holding off from sacking a manager out of fear of disaster is merely kicking the can down the line. But it wasnt just appointing an inept manager, one who had no interests in team shape and with a horrendous recent CV, with the added issue of splitting the fan base due to history with Burnley that relegated us. It all started 2 years before relegation, a sale of key assets (Cairney, Gestede then Rhodes 6 months later and Hanley and Duffy 12 months later) replaced under embargo by crap we could piece together for 10k or less a week, Guthrie, Delfoenso etc, it can be easy to overestimate our vulnerability to potential disaster should Mowbray be removed. Last time, it took a fire sale, a transfer embargo and a particularly inept and divisive managerial appointment, even if we made a poor managerial choice, which I can understand a fear of, it would take a lot to put us in serious danger of relegation, whereas the gap is less to the top 6. The balance of risk v reward seems in our favour.

Because the season isn't over yet and we have our best players to come back.

How is the balance of risk v reward worth it when they have never made a decent managerial appointment apart from getting lucky with Bowyer and Mowbray? Nether of whom were signals of intent. Do you have that much faith in Waggot and or the owners to make a good appointment? Good for you. 

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TM wants to play this possession based football apparently after watching Leeds be successful in getting out of the Championship playing that way. 
 

The obvious thing is that they don’t continue to play side to side, slow, back, side to side. They play with intensity through the lines from defence to midfield to forwards. 
 

Sadly, we are miles away from that.

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9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Because the season isn't over yet and we have our best players to come back.

How is the balance of risk v reward worth it when they have never made a decent managerial appointment apart from getting lucky with Bowyer and Mowbray? Nether of whom were signals of intent. Do you have that much faith in Waggot and or the owners to make a good appointment? Good for you. 

I never said that. If the mindset is that we expect the next appointment to be Coyle-esque then we may as well give up completely. Keeping Mowbray is surely only delaying the inevitable?

As I explained, the risk v reward comment was mainly surrounding what I feel is an exaggerated sense of what could happen if the next managerial choice is wrong. Coyle who was a particular bad appointment that we would struggle to match his ineptitude wasnt the sole reason for our relegation, it was a culmination of a 2 year spell in which we had hit a transfer embargo and sold all of our best players. Even if we did appoint a poor replacement, I wouldnt suspect much immediate danger because our squad is much better than a fair few in this league to stay up. Conversely, a good appointment and it isnt that far away to have a genuine promotion push, maybe much of the foundations are there, but the manager seems over a long period unable to push past that point. There is nothing to suggest that in the last 18 months under Mowbray, we have been going on an upward trajectory.

This notion of our best players all coming back and saving the day just has always seemed desperate and tenous to me, in this season, as they come back more injuries will happen. We have recently played plenty of teams with equal or worse injury problems, tonight Huddersfield are without 8 or 9 including their main defender in Schindler and their main attacking threat this season in Koroma. Hes had enough time up until now and indeed the mitigating circumstances of bad injuries are across the board to the extent that any idea that we will ever judge Mowbray on a fully fit first 11 is unreasonable.

I still dont get why a team underperforming on its own public top 6 target would have to be in a relegation scrap to "not be working out."

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2 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Not a great record for the calendar year.

1 more loss than wins. Less than half the available points have been picked up (56/126), a lot of goals conceded as well.

Leeds went up last season conceding just 35 goals from 46 games. We've shipped 61 from our last 42. 

The top 9 teams in the Championship conceded less goals across 46 games than that.

More evidence that Mowbray isn't the right man for the job. His disregard for our defensive frailties is constantly biting us in the arse.

Screenshot_20201229-160053_Twitter.jpg

Great Post, extremely damning and the stats speak for themselves.

And without having looked it up I'd imagine the stats for the calender year 2019 would be extremely similar.

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said that. If the mindset is that we expect the next appointment to be Coyle-esque then we may as well give up completely. Keeping Mowbray is surely only delaying the inevitable?

As I explained, the risk v reward comment was mainly surrounding what I feel is an exaggerated sense of what could happen if the next managerial choice is wrong. Coyle who was a particular bad appointment that we would struggle to match his ineptitude wasnt the sole reason for our relegation, it was a culmination of a 2 year spell in which we had hit a transfer embargo and sold all of our best players. Even if we did appoint a poor replacement, I wouldnt suspect much immediate danger because our squad is much better than a fair few in this league to stay up. Conversely, a good appointment and it isnt that far away to have a genuine promotion push, maybe much of the foundations are there, but the manager seems over a long period unable to push past that point. There is nothing to suggest that in the last 18 months under Mowbray, we have been going on an upward trajectory.

This notion of our best players all coming back and saving the day just has always seemed desperate and tenous to me, in this season, as they come back more injuries will happen. We have recently played plenty of teams with equal or worse injury problems, tonight Huddersfield are without 8 or 9 including their main defender in Schindler and their main attacking threat this season in Koroma. Hes had enough time up until now and indeed the mitigating circumstances of bad injuries are across the board to the extent that any idea that we will ever judge Mowbray on a fully fit first 11 is unreasonable.

I still dont get why a team underperforming on its own public top 6 target would have to be in a relegation scrap to "not be working out."

Because I would say we are still in contention and my preference is for giving a manager the season to fulfill his target. I know the trigger approach works at times, but we are another Coyle away from getting into serious trouble. We have some excellent palyers, but so have other clubs who have been dragged down there. 

We don't look far away to me either, I think Mowbray is holding a bit of that together. I obviously want us to be the play offs and the longer we are outside, the worse it looks. A few wins gets you right up there though and I hope we will be in the mix at the end. I have rarely if ever thought Mowbray has lost the players. If I saw that, then I would think he should go. 

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5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Because I would say we are still in contention and my preference is for giving a manager the season to fulfill his target. I know the trigger approach works at times, but we are another Coyle away from getting into serious trouble. We have some excellent palyers, but so have other clubs who have been dragged down there. 

We don't look far away to me either, I think Mowbray is holding a bit of that together. I obviously want us to be the play offs and the longer we are outside, the worse it looks. A few wins gets you right up there though and I hope we will be in the mix at the end. I have rarely if ever thought Mowbray has lost the players. If I saw that, then I would think he should go. 

I dont think that sacking a manager 4 years in can be referred to as the "trigger approach" and indeed I think as highlighted last time we went down, it took more than an inept appointment to cause it, of which even the current rabble would struggle to get someone on Coyle's level. If we was going to roll the dice with the manager a year down the line following an embargo and a lorry load of cheap replacements for Armstrong, Dack etc making up the squad, then maybe there would be more risk.

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