chaddyrovers Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said: I think Wagner would be favourite though for me. Can I ask you why Wagner would be your choice? And would you be bringing a Sporting director/head coach structure with Wagner as Head Coach and experience sporting director? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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simongarnerisgod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Mattyblue said: A lot of fans have had their expectations dumbed down that much that they don’t even see promotion as something we should be aspiring to. ‘We need to be realistic’ - ergo plodding with TM is perfectly fine. it`s not even about promotion for me,i want to see a functional,balanced side with a manager who can get the best out of his players,mowbray can`t organise,can`t motivate and is tactically useless added to the fact he`s now completely devoid of ideas on how to get us winning again,he`s even lost the dressing room so if thats not enough to sack him then i expect we`ll be relegated and this time we won`t be coming back at the first attempt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraserkirky Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said: Can I ask you why Wagner would be your choice? And would you be bringing a Sporting director/head coach structure with Wagner as Head Coach and experience sporting director? Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyblue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) I’m on a WhatsApp group (well I lurk) that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that. All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ , I wouldn’t particularly call them ‘happy clappers’ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No. I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with a big percentage of the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached tech platforms but his Teflon status is still just about intact. Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booth Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: I’m on a WhatsApp group that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that. All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No. I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached times, but his Teflon status is still just about intact. Do they watch the games because even in our better performances this season we’ve looked disjointed and all over the place defensively. Then the bizarre subs come along. And if that’s not evidence enough we’ve just taken 1 point from 18 and in 15th place not knowing where the next point is going to come from. I don’t understand why he’s so immune from criticism. I can only assume they aren’t as informed as some of the posters on here. In a Facebook discussion I once brought up the issue of debt when some were saying we should accept that we’re a lower league mid table club. The replies I got were along the lines of, “what debt?” And, “Venkys are paying the bills aren’t they?” Ignorance is bliss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martonrover Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: I’m on a WhatsApp group (well I lurk) that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that. All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No. I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with a big percentage of the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached times, but his Teflon status is still just about intact. Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager? Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simongarnerisgod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 holy ****,has anybody seen our next six games,we are well and truly in the smelly stuff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyblue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, martonrover said: Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager? Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision. I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this. The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow. Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booth Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, martonrover said: Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager? Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision. Some people think that by criticising the manager you’re not a real fan. I saw it said before the Coventry match. A bloke (from down south somewhere) said whoever doesn’t get behind Tony Mowbray isn’t a real fan along with some name calling, and that comment got a ton of likes and several replies of “well said” and “couldn’t agree more.” These were from local fans. It must be a strange world to live in to have zero opinion on what you’re witnessing. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martonrover Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, booth said: Some people think that by criticising the manager you’re not a real fan. I saw it said before the Coventry match. A bloke (from down south somewhere) said whoever doesn’t get behind Tony Mowbray isn’t a real fan along with some name calling, and that comment got a ton of likes and several replies of “well said” and “couldn’t agree more.” These were from local fans. It must be a strange world to live in to have zero opinion on what you’re witnessing. Yes, there are plenty out there like that, I have no doubt. That’s what I was getting at, but you worded it better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booth Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this. The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow. I’m not sure it’s totally unique. I remember people defending Kean on TV at the height of his ineptitude. As I said on another thread I saw a guy trying to initiate a fight in the riverside in front of his wife and young child because one guy shouted Kean out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbrovers2288 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said: Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too. Did you see his spell with Schalke, that has now led to that German giant getting relegated. Worse than a Tony defeat death spiral. No thanks. And I don’t want to be leaning on loans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyblue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, booth said: I’m not sure it’s totally unique. I remember people defending Kean on TV at the height of his ineptitude. As I said on another thread I saw a guy trying to initiate a fight in the riverside in front of his wife and young child because one guy shouted Kean out. Not like this. Kean had lost the vast, vast majority of fans well before the end, even earlier on a lot of the rows were about how it ‘doesn’t help the team’ to protest, not that Kean needed supporting personally. However, if TM was sacked tomorrow it wouldn’t be because of fan pressure. What makes TM is unique in the fact that he doesn’t ever even receive mild criticism, never mind calls for his head from large swathes of fans. Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucimo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said: holy ****,has anybody seen our next six games,we are well and truly in the smelly stuff I think most fans with their finger on the pulse yes. That's why we are crying out for TM to go now and not giving him any longer. For me the next winnable game is Wycombe in April. This situation is dire, the players are either not listening to Tony which is bad, or they are, which is worse. And the closer we get to the drop zone, I fear for us because we have no fight in that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arbitro Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this. The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow. I honestly think that some fans really believe that any criticism of the club by them is almost being disloyal and therefore pretty much defend anything or in some cases don't offer an opinion. Thinking back to the protest times many fans were critical and sometimes aggressive towards those protesting and I really think that some of the fans you are referring to fell into that category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyblue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, arbitro said: I honestly think that some fans really believe that any criticism of the club by them is almost being disloyal and therefore pretty much defend anything or in some cases don't offer an opinion. Thinking back to the protest times many fans were critical and sometimes aggressive towards those protesting and I really think that some of the fans you are referring to fell into that category. But they aren’t, this is why it’s so bloody strange, these aren’t happy clappers we are talking about, just normal fans who have never previously not slagged off managers, the majority were on the marches, signing petitions a decade back. It is solely a TM thing. I can only think it is the trauma of L1 relegation. Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyrovers Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said: Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too. I think you have to huge credit to Huddersfield Sporting Director Stuart Webber for hiring Wagner and the signings for that promotion. Before he left for Norwich.. I think Wagner made alot of poor signings after Webber left there But we all have different opinions on replacements and who we would go for. I also think experience Sporting director at the club with overseas head coach isnt the worst idea tbh. 2 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said: Did you see his spell with Schalke, that has now led to that German giant getting relegated. Worse than a Tony defeat death spiral. No thanks. And I don’t want to be leaning on loans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 It’s quite simple really, win games and nobody will be on Mowbrays back. People suggesting that isn’t a high priority are the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigger Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Lucimo said: I think most fans with their finger on the pulse yes. That's why we are crying out for TM to go now and not giving him any longer. For me the next winnable game is Wycombe in April. This situation is dire, the players are either not listening to Tony which is bad, or they are, which is worse. And the closer we get to the drop zone, I fear for us because we have no fight in that team. The next winnable game, is always, and always will be , the next game. No matter who it is against. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simongarnerisgod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, rigger said: The next winnable game, is always, and always will be , the next game. No matter who it is against. er,in our present state i don`t see a game away at reading as winnable,unless some biblical miracle occurs and we start to be organised and defensively sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booth Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: Not like this. Kean had lost the vast, vast majority of fans well before the end, even earlier on a lot of the rows were about how it ‘doesn’t help the team’ to protest, not that Kean needed supporting personally. However, if TM was sacked tomorrow it wouldn’t be because of fan pressure. What makes TM is unique in the fact that he doesn’t ever even receive mild criticism, never mind calls for his head from large swathes of fans. I agree it’s not on the same level as Kean, I was just meaning there’s always a type of person who won’t have anything said bad about anyone behind the scenes at the club. They’ll slate individual players but manager, CEO or chairman get a free pass. It’s like they don’t think a manager is really necessary to achieve results and it’s purely down to the players. They don’t seem to want to acknowledge it’s the manager who brings in the players, picks them and coaches them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV Blue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Not even a murmur of him going, beginning to feel more and more like the Kean era - a failing, yet unsackable, manager, depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyblue Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, booth said: I agree it’s not on the same level as Kean, I was just meaning there’s always a type of person who won’t have anything said bad about anyone behind the scenes at the club. They’ll slate individual players but manager, CEO or chairman get a free pass. It’s like they don’t think a manager is really necessary to achieve results and it’s purely down to the players. They don’t seem to want to acknowledge it’s the manager who brings in the players, picks them and coaches them. My point is, I can’t recall a manager, and I include actual quality managers like Hughes, Souness, Allardyce who did actual consistently good jobs year after year, that was this immune to even slight criticism from so many fans. Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim mk2 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said: Didn't Watford have 4 managers in one season the previous time they won promotion? Instability clearly works at some clubs Edited February 28, 2021 by jim mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoochie Bloochie Mama Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mattyblue said: Not like this. Kean had lost the vast, vast majority of fans well before the end, even earlier on a lot of the rows were about how it ‘doesn’t help the team’ to protest, not that Kean needed supporting personally. However, if TM was sacked tomorrow it wouldn’t be because of fan pressure. What makes TM is unique in the fact that he doesn’t ever even receive mild criticism, never mind calls for his head from large swathes of fans. I occasionally read the comments under Sharpe's twitter feed. People on there seem to universally want him out. Also, a few in the LT comments have turned having previously been staunch TM fans. Edited February 28, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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