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10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Honestly though, could you see a promotion push under him? 

A lot of fans have had their expectations dumbed down that much that they don’t even see promotion as something we should be aspiring to. ‘We need to be realistic’ - ergo plodding with TM is perfectly fine.

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The trouble is, this is a well-trodden route in the Copybook of Tony Mowbray. A week back, prior to Cardiff and following the utterly woeful and woebegone showings against Wigan and Barnsley, we neede

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What's really annoying me about him now, is the excuses he puts out after every game. It's never his fault. Even though he plays players out of position and seems incapable of motivating players prior to games and on many occasions at half time. Plus the most common excuses he gives impact on every team, not just us. He has had time and money to sort his team out, yet we all know the ongoing issues. 

He really needs to have some pride now and walk. He said the aim was the play offs. We are miles off. 

This is actually frustrating. 

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2 hours ago, dcbrfc said:

Because times have changed. Souness days were some of the best I’ve experienced (missed a lot of the Hughes time as was away at uni). But we were a Premier League club back then in a different era. The game is different now. Look at the clubs in this league who have bigger budgets and far better squads. And I’m not saying we should never be back there I just don’t think it’s a realistic expectation right now. We were a Second Division club for what 15 years before we went up in 92? And yes I’m sticking with Mowbray because after all he’s done for the club - he’s the best thing to happen to Blackburn Rovers since Venky’s walked through the doors 10 years ago - I just feel he deserves a bit longer. If we get sucked into a proper relegation battle then yea sack him but as things stand we should give him more time, support the team and hope results can change.

This sounds very patronising but the "problem" with fans who only started supporting through the glory Jack/King Kenny years or the subsequent relatively frugal but well managed Walker Trust is that they have never seen us compete and punch above our weight at the equivalent of Championship and  League 1 level in the days when we genuinely didn't have a pot to widdle in under far better managers than Mowbray.

Mowbray doesn't know he's born in comparison. Most Clubs have to cut their cloth accordingly and trade players when necessary to raise finances. Our manager is simply allowed to pile players on top of more players, is never asked to sell anyone, is never asked to get rid of the dead wood and every time he blunders in the transfer market any cap in hand request for extra funding is met in the affirmative. Then the owners just inject an eight figure sum in share capital each season and on we go.

What on earth makes you think he deserves another season? Given the fact that he is doing statistically worse than he did with Coyle's squad when he arrived I really don't understand it. Or do you think that 15th or so in the Championship is the best we can expect? Good job you weren't a Wycombe fan a few years ago, you'd probably have been going "Let's forget these silly notions of promotion from League 2 lads, just remember who we are."

I know everyone's entitled to their opinion but blimey. If someone said "That Hitler, he wasn't so bad was he?" then that's an opinion but you wouldn't give it any weight whatsoever and you'd think the person putting it forward was extremely strange.

Not that I'm comparing TM to Hitler in any way shape or form, obviously, but your opinion he should get another season,  based on what we've seen from him thus far, is so wide of the mark as not to be worthy of serious consideration imo.

Well done on your professional qualifications BTW. It's unfair of people to knock you on that basis but I'm sure you'd agree the most educated person in the world could hold the most insightful or the most misguided opinion on any topic.

 

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1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What's really annoying me about him now, is the excuses he puts out after every game. It's never his fault. Even though he plays players out of position and seems incapable of motivating players prior to games and on many occasions at half time. Plus the most common excuses he gives impact on every team, not just us. He has had time and money to sort his team out, yet we all know the ongoing issues. 

He really needs to have some pride now and walk. He said the aim was the play offs. We are miles off. 

This is actually frustrating. 

That's been going on for a long time, not just recently.

I wish people would also stop picking up on a throw away quote he made years ago and stop expecting him to just walk out without a pay off. It isn't going to happen and you wouldn't expect any sane person to do the same either. Gone are the days where they were on a few hundred pounds a week.

The owners are going to have to sack him to get him out and it's all he deserves on the basis of his performance since returning to the Championship. The most we could expect from Mowbray would be for him to approach the owners asking for a relatively dignified exit "by mutual consent" with the appropriate pay off.

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3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That's been going on for a long time, not just recently.

I wish people would also stop picking up on a throw away quote he made years ago and stop expecting him to just walk out without a pay off. It isn't going to happen and you wouldn't expect any sane person to do the same either. Gone are the days where they were on a few hundred pounds a week.

The owners are going to have to sack him to get him out and it's all he deserves on the basis of his performance since returning to the Championship. The most we could expect from Mowbray would be for him to approach the owners asking for a relatively dignified exit "by mutual consent" with the appropriate pay off.

Never said I expected him to walk and I wasn't referring to his previous comments. I was referring to the fact that he said what his aim was and he won't achieve that. 

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2 hours ago, dcbrfc said:

Can’t say I agree with the education metaphor as in football there are always two teams, so there’s always gonna be a winner/loser (unless it’s a draw obviously!) but in a classroom you don’t have two sets of people trying to win a game!

In a two team football league we’d have more relegations than promotions right now.

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2 hours ago, dcbrfc said:

I came on here today for the first time in years as I was informed I was being slated for my comments on Twitter. I’ve responded to some but I’m going to respectfully sign out for now.

What does concern me is the constant tearing down of fellow fans for their differing opinions. We’re all (I assume) Rovers fans here. COYB. Enjoy your Sunday.

In other words I’ve signed in to take you down a peg, but now I’ll passively aggressively retreat with my tail between my legs.

No one is denying you an opinion, disagreeing is not denying. Coming onto a Rovers focused forum and posting a contrary view when tensions are high isn’t going to gain you much support. Perhaps stick to Twitter where there’s a much more diluted and generally less invested readership. Either that or as they say in journalism class, grow a thicker skin.

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4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

My point was over the last 3 seasons since we got promoted from League 1 that we haven't made good quality defensive signings. You mention us signing John Egan from Brentford(before his Sheffield United move) and I mention us signing Michael Hector at that time. Plus other names we mentioned since then like Pinnock, Lindsay, Jansson, Carter-Vickers, etc we should have tried to sign and get them in. 

We need a left back and we got Douglas who has been poor this season overall. I suggested Pickering last summer as the answer to the left back problem based on a scouting report from a Rovers chat member. 

right back- We have never had any competition for Nyambe in 3 seasons. So why hasn't Mowbray sign one?

Players have gone off form over that time like Elliott has, Brereton got injured, The use of false 9 position, Dack has been not the player he was pre injured but that was expected and it will be months before and next season for me. 

Look at how Villa played the 4-3-3 formation yesterday. So well organised, structured solid and their players knew their jobs and what was expect from them. Did you see the Leeds vs Villa game? I sometimes wonder what our players are told before the games. 

I don't think our players have the willing and want to get into the box when the ball is wide.

I do agree that the defensive side of thing has been neglected, my point was more that the attacking side of things looks equally poor at the moment. Our only good CB signing under Mowbray has been Adarabioyo who was a loanee, its just been neglected. Right back, a very talented right back has been handled shockingly and also we have never had a competent backup like you said should he be injured or need a rest. Left back, most of the time we have played for me as bad a left back that I have seen playing regularly at this level in Bell, 2 last ditch loanees havent helped really and there is a lot of excitement about a player based on random stats by self claimed analysts but I will wait to judge once I have seen him myself, I am skeptical that a player who we was happy to continue to allow playing for Crewe who themselves have conceded plenty will be an instant upgrade but time will tell.

For some reason, you have been very single minded on the Dack issue, but you havent acknowledged that playing him in numerous positions that he isnt best in (all of his success has been as a number 10) will not be aiding his cause, deep in the midfield, the false 9 nonsense and bizarrely wide left. Elliott has gone off form which has coincided with the managers meddling, going from being consistently played wide right to sometimes central in a 3 and even as a false 9 again. Players cannot be expected to maintain the same level of performance if the shape and their individual roles are constantly tinkered with. The Gallagher wide thing has never made sense either.

I think there is a misconception about our attacking ability based on the 4 games I mentioned in which we convincingly won, scoring more than 50% of those 16 goals against 10 men. I also feel that we are unhealthily reliant on Armstrong and when he inevitably leaves in the summer, it is a major concern looking down the table.

I watched some of the Villa game and I would say that they are a good example of a manager who offers his players consistency and familiarity, playing the same way meaning that even with Grealish and Cash injured and Barkley and Luiz on the bench, other players came in and slotted in knowing clearly what their jobs are. With Mowbray as manager the players dont know how they will be playing from one match to the next.

 

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13 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I would cordially invite Dan to go on a few Celtic websites next, espouse similar views and see what they think of TM.

Coventry fans aren’t too fond!

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2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

And also did ok in some Cup competitions IIRC

Lost in the quarters to Brentford in 89 I think it was. also remember almost beating Liverpool over two legs in the league Cup, sellars headed in a pearler. 

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39 minutes ago, Silas said:

Very noble attitude to have, well done you for respecting other opinions and not tearing down.

Just one thing though.....in the last week alone you've put your stamp of approval on tweets calling fellow fans "absolutely pathetic" and "petulant children". 

Just wondering where that falls in your spectrum of Zen enlightenment? 🤔

Let me guess, it's just the folk with an opposing opinion to you that are acting like big meanies? 

 

 

 

 

Nice work. Not sure Dan will be back in a hurry, even after he has got his energy back. 

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52 minutes ago, Silas said:

Very noble attitude to have, well done you for respecting other opinions and not tearing down.

Just one thing though.....in the last week alone you've put your stamp of approval on tweets calling fellow fans "absolutely pathetic" and "petulant children". 

Just wondering where that falls in your spectrum of Zen enlightenment? 🤔

Let me guess, it's just the folk with an opposing opinion to you that are acting like big meanies?

Welcome to life in 2021.

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The thing that winds me up is that the Mowbray backers aren't doing so based on any real footballing reasons, it's simply based on sentiment. I've seen some even go as far as to say that they would move Mowbray upstairs if we were to get a new manager in. Why? Why are they so afraid to say Tony has to leave?

They don't want him sacked because of this narrative of him being a nice, honest, family man who rescued Rovers. He probably is a nice guy, but since when has that ever been a reason to keep hold of a manager who is failing to get results? Throw in the promotion from L1 and it's a case of "Ah, he deserves another year, he needs more time". They just can't say what needs saying. For how long are these fans going to use L1 as an excuse to hide the fact that they have no ambition and that they are afraid of change? Let's forget the Premier League and stick with mid table Mowbray then, eh.

Mowbray has done some good things, yes, but he isn't the man to take us up. I don't get why saying we want Rovers to challenge for promotion with a proper manager in charge is seen as a crime and viewed as "pathetic" by some. It really is baffling. What the heck do they want for their club?

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49 minutes ago, booth said:

In other words I’ve signed in to take you down a peg, but now I’ll passively aggressively retreat with my tail between my legs.

No one is denying you an opinion, disagreeing is not denying. Coming onto a Rovers focused forum and posting a contrary view when tensions are high isn’t going to gain you much support. Perhaps stick to Twitter where there’s a much more diluted and generally less invested readership. Either that or as they say in journalism class, grow a thicker skin.

That's not fair. Someone's taken a screenshot of his Twitter and posted it on here to be used as target practice for the mob. It's worrying that this MB is now so polarised and so intolerant of alternative views that taking screenshots from social media is the only way to see a different view, because no sane Rovers fan who supports Mowbray staying is going to volunteer that opinion on here. Life is too short.

Even just from the last few pages people who don't want Mowbray potted have been patronisingly tagged as "happy clappers", "superfans" and "Facebook Fanboy Cult". But it's an entirely legitimate position to have as a Rovers fan. I get on a Zoom with about a dozen mates after some Saturday games (sadly not in the actual pub for now) and that group is 80/20 in favour of not sacking. Age range mid-30s to mid-50s. No happy clappers or Facebook Fanboys. Just normal Rovers fans. (About half of them used to post on here, none of them even read it anymore).

Dan Clough has had his Twitter posted in a forum where it was bound to attract venom. Why shouldn't he be allowed to come on and defend himself for a couple of hours, but then get on with his Sunday afternoon? People need to take a step back.

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42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I do agree that the defensive side of thing has been neglected. Our only good CB signing under Mowbray has been Adarabioyo who was a loanee, its just been neglected. Right back, a very talented right back has been handled shockingly and also we have never had a competent backup like you said should he be injured or need a rest. Left back, most of the time we have played for me as bad a left back that I have seen playing regularly at this level in Bell, 

The lack of permanent quality signings at Centre back is a major concern now. We had plenty of time to bring in a quality fit centre back next to Lenihan. 

What are expecting from 250k signing in Bell? He is going to be decent signing and I think Bell has more talent then we are seeing during his time here. But I would release him and not sign Douglas permanently in the summer. 

The lack of signing a right back for last 7 or 8 years as been concerning. I always wanted to sign Jack Hunt under Bowyer. I hope we bring in a right back this summer unless we have a manager who will play Pike if Nyambe is injured

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

there is a lot of excitement about a player based on random stats by self claimed analysts but I will wait to judge once I have seen him myself, I am skeptical that a player who we was happy to continue to allow playing for Crewe who themselves have conceded plenty will be an instant upgrade

What random Stats?

43 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

my point was more that the attacking side of things looks equally poor at the moment.

Yes we are cos we arent playing with the tempo or movement from earlier in the season and We are lacking confidence since Christmas IMO

46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

For some reason, you have been very single minded on the Dack issue, but you havent acknowledged that playing him in numerous positions that he isnt best in (all of his success has been as a number 10) will not be aiding his cause, deep in the midfield, the false 9 nonsense and bizarrely wide left.

On Dack, I have always maintain that we needed to ease him back into the team and not rush him back to starting games. His best 2 performances have been from the bench like Boro away and Birmingham away. He is lacking confidence and fitness aswell. 

In our current formation of 4-3-3 formation we don't play with number 10 anymore. Will Mowbray move back to a 4-2-3-1 formation and can he formed a partnership with Armstrong before end of the season? can he play the 10 role with a Danny Graham type striker up front. We will see  But going into next season how do we play Dack, where in the team and Who do we bring in replace Armstrong?

46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Elliott has gone off form which has coincided with the managers meddling, going from being consistently played wide right to sometimes central in a 3 and even as a false 9 again.

Thats hasn't help but he 17 years old so I would expect his form to go off a some time and this is his first proper season of playing football

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think there is a misconception about our attacking ability based on the 4 games I mentioned in which we convincingly won, scoring more than 50% of those 16 goals against 10 men. I also feel that we are unhealthily reliant on Armstrong and when he inevitably leaves in the summer, it is a major concern looking down the table.

Brereton(5 goals), Gallagher(4), Elliott(5), Rothwell(3) and Dolan(3) have all chip in this with goals. When you are playing Armstrong as the main striker in 4-3-3 formation he will get the baulk of the goals similar to when Shearer scored the baulk of our goals in our Premier League winning games. 

Replacing Armstrong if he does go this summer will be big task and hopefully we have already have a shortlist ready to replace him. I did a shortlist of possible replacements for him. Have you seen that and what do you think?

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I watched some of the Villa game and I would say that they are a good example of a manager who offers his players consistency and familiarity, playing the same way meaning that even with Grealish and Cash injured and Barkley and Luiz on the bench, other players came in and slotted in knowing clearly what their jobs are. With Mowbray as manager the players dont know how they will be playing from one match to the next.

 

I have watched alot of Villa this season with so many games on Live TV cos of the pandemic ongoing. 

Dean Smith has switched between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 formations this season. You mention Grealish and Cash out but both were replace with like for like player. 

Smith played a 4-3-3 formation but it was the organisation and the fact that every player knew their job in that job structure that was playing Leeds. Their were solid at the back and the midfield 3 were tight and knew their positions. 

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It’s time for change.
Nothing malicious, football managers have a life expectancy in the job, and can’t expect to be in a job for a long time without getting results. We aren’t getting results in year 4. The performances of the team haven’t been good enough and we are now looking more to the bottom than the top of the league. I thank Tony Mowbray for the job he has done, but Venkys are pumping money into the club and we still aren’t going anywhere under this manager, see Gallagher 5m. 

Letting Mowbray go is the thing to do now, gives us time to get the job posted and take our time sifting through the lots of applications I expect. We are the only club looking right now, and gives a new guy 10-12 games to have a proper look at the team before the summer. Armstrong, Nyambe and hopefully Dack will be off this summer I think, which will allow the new manager to make a raft of new signings, starting in defence, and hopefully employing a new style of play.

Possibly could be Lampard in the Summer, with Johnson until the end of the season and Tony in a Director of Football role till the end of the season and potentially longer.

I think Wagner would be favorite though for me.

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2 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

It’s time for change.
Nothing malicious, football managers have a life expectancy in the job, and can’t expect to be in a job for a long time without getting results. We aren’t getting results in year 4. The performances of the team haven’t been good enough and we are now looking more to the bottom than the top of the league. I thank Tony Mowbray for the job he has done, but Venkys are pumping money into the club and we still aren’t going anywhere under this manager, see Gallagher 5m. 

Letting Mowbray go is the thing to do now, gives us time to get the job posted and take our time sifting through the lots of applications I expect. We are the only club looking right now, and gives a new guy 10-12 games to have a proper look at the team before the summer. Armstrong, Nyambe and hopefully Dack will be off this summer I think, which will allow the new manager to make a raft of new signings, starting in defence, and hopefully employing a new style of play.

Possibly could be Lampard in the Summer, with Johnson until the end of the season and Tony in a Director of Football role till the end of the season and potentially longer.

I think Wagner would be favorite though for me.

I often agree with your posts but........to have Tony directing anything remotely connected with the first team fill me with dread.

I have no room for sentiment....the cut needs to be clean....and soon .

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2 minutes ago, Dolly blue said:

I often agree with your posts but........to have Tony directing anything remotely connected with the first team fill me with dread.

I have no room for sentiment....the cut needs to be clean....and soon .

Fair enough Dolly, I still have some concerns that he might be running absolutely everything at the club, esp if he is working 7-7, certainly isn’t on tactics. 

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I really don’t think there is any valid reason to stick with Mowbray at this point. 
 

Poor, disjointed performances lacking any proper game plan or idea are the rule rather than the exception, and in reality that’s been the case since at least the return from the first lockdown at the back end of last season. We are now regressing rapidly, and with our upcoming fixtures a relegation battle could well be on the cards.

There are two main arguments you see in favour of keeping him. By far the most popular is celebrating his limited successes and the stability he has brought. Even if you take all that at face value (which we shouldn’t), how does that equate to him being the right man going forward? The more time goes on, the further in the past these achievements are. Little mention of the present, because it’s shit.

Then there’s the whole “Do you trust Venky’s to find anyone better?”

No, of course I don’t. I’m unwavering in my criticisms of them. I fully expect them to dip back in to the HSH scrap heap and see who else comes out. I doubt I’ll be overly inspired by who they do choose, but that doesn’t mean someone underperforming at the level Mowbray currently is should stay here indefinitely. It’s odd that many of the people using this argument are the same people who are really critical of anyone who dares suggest Venky’s are anything more than benevolent saviours, duped by the evil Jerome.

There’s not even so much an acceptance of mediocrity anymore than an embracing of it. The dumbing down looks to continue for some time to come. On of the main reasons I personally want Mowbray gone is that the serial failure that is Waggott will hopefully piss off too before he flogs swathes of our training ground and drives away any more supporters.

I accept we are stuck with Venky’s for the foreseeable, but we shouldn’t ever stop asking questions of them, or demanding better.

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