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24 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

That's not fair. Someone's taken a screenshot of his Twitter and posted it on here to be used as target practice for the mob. It's worrying that this MB is now so polarised and so intolerant of alternative views that taking screenshots from social media is the only way to see a different view, because no sane Rovers fan who supports Mowbray staying is going to volunteer that opinion on here. Life is too short.

Even just from the last few pages people who don't want Mowbray potted have been patronisingly tagged as "happy clappers", "superfans" and "Facebook Fanboy Cult". But it's an entirely legitimate position to have as a Rovers fan. I get on a Zoom with about a dozen mates after some Saturday games (sadly not in the actual pub for now) and that group is 80/20 in favour of not sacking. Age range mid-30s to mid-50s. No happy clappers or Facebook Fanboys. Just normal Rovers fans. (About half of them used to post on here, none of them even read it anymore).

Dan Clough has had his Twitter posted in a forum where it was bound to attract venom. Why shouldn't he be allowed to come on and defend himself for a couple of hours, but then get on with his Sunday afternoon? People need to take a step back.

It’s completely fair as that’s what he did. It doesn’t matter how he discovered it, he came on, argued his point and then ruined it by basically taking the same stance that he was opposing. “I don’t like people disagreeing with me.”

Not many people responded to the original post. Only one was abusive and that was two words. If you think that’s venom you might want to have a word with Chaddy or Mercer.

“Why shouldn't he be allowed to come on and defend himself for a couple of hours, but then get on with his Sunday afternoon?”

Now you’re doing it. Who said he’s not allowed to defend himself?

He did didn’t he? Has he been banned?

Edited by booth
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17 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

I think Wagner would be favourite though for me.

Can I ask you why Wagner would be your choice? 

And would you be bringing a Sporting director/head coach structure with Wagner as Head Coach and experience sporting director?

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2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

A lot of fans have had their expectations dumbed down that much that they don’t even see promotion as something we should be aspiring to. ‘We need to be realistic’ - ergo plodding with TM is perfectly fine.

it`s not even about promotion for me,i want to see a functional,balanced side with a manager who can get the best out of his players,mowbray can`t organise,can`t motivate and is tactically useless added to the fact he`s now completely devoid of ideas on how to get us winning again,he`s even lost the dressing room so if thats not enough to sack him then i expect we`ll be relegated and this time we won`t be coming back at the first attempt

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3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Can I ask you why Wagner would be your choice? 

And would you be bringing a Sporting director/head coach structure with Wagner as Head Coach and experience sporting director?

Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. 
Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. 

Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too.

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I’m on a WhatsApp group (well I lurk) that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that.

All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ , I wouldn’t particularly call them ‘happy clappers’ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No.

I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with a big percentage of the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached tech platforms but his Teflon status is still just about intact.

Edited by Mattyblue
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2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m on a WhatsApp group that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that.

All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No.

I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached times, but his Teflon status is still just about intact.

Do they watch the games because even in our better performances this season we’ve looked disjointed and all over the place defensively. Then the bizarre subs come along.

And if that’s not evidence enough we’ve just taken 1 point from 18 and in 15th place not knowing where the next point is going to come from.

I don’t understand why he’s so immune from criticism. I can only assume they aren’t as informed as some of the posters on here.

In a Facebook discussion I once brought up the issue of debt when some were saying we should accept that we’re a lower league mid table club. The replies I got were along the lines of, “what debt?” And, “Venkys are paying the bills aren’t they?”

Ignorance is bliss.

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4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m on a WhatsApp group (well I lurk) that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that.

All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No.

I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with a big percentage of the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached times, but his Teflon status is still just about intact.

Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager?

Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision.

 

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3 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager?

Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision.

 

I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this.

The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow.

 

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3 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Would you say that perhaps in many cases that it’s more about backing the status quo than about backing the manager?

Then when the club finally takes action and the axe falls, the same people will praise the club for making the right decision.

 

Some people think that by criticising the manager you’re not a real fan. I saw it said before the Coventry match. A bloke (from down south somewhere) said whoever doesn’t get behind Tony Mowbray isn’t a real fan along with some name calling, and that comment got a ton of likes and several replies of “well said” and “couldn’t agree more.” These were from local fans. It must be a strange world to live in to have zero opinion on what you’re witnessing.

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1 minute ago, booth said:

Some people think that by criticising the manager you’re not a real fan. I saw it said before the Coventry match. A bloke (from down south somewhere) said whoever doesn’t get behind Tony Mowbray isn’t a real fan along with some name calling, and that comment got a ton of likes and several replies of “well said” and “couldn’t agree more.” These were from local fans. It must be a strange world to live in to have zero opinion on what you’re witnessing.

Yes, there are plenty out there like that, I have no doubt. 

That’s what I was getting at, but you worded it better.

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10 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this.

The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow.

 

I’m not sure it’s totally unique. I remember people defending Kean on TV at the height of his ineptitude.

As I said on another thread I saw a guy trying to initiate a fight in the riverside in front of his wife and young child because one guy shouted Kean out.

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27 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. 
Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. 

Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too.

Did you see his spell with Schalke, that has now led to that German giant getting relegated. Worse than a Tony defeat death spiral. No thanks. And I don’t want to be leaning on loans 

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6 minutes ago, booth said:

I’m not sure it’s totally unique. I remember people defending Kean on TV at the height of his ineptitude.

As I said on another thread I saw a guy trying to initiate a fight in the riverside in front of his wife and young child because one guy shouted Kean out.

Not like this. Kean had lost the vast, vast majority of fans well before the end, even earlier on a lot of the rows were about how it ‘doesn’t help the team’ to protest, not that Kean needed supporting personally. However, if TM was sacked tomorrow it wouldn’t be because of fan pressure.

What makes TM is unique in the fact that he doesn’t ever even receive mild criticism, never mind calls for his head from large swathes of fans.

Edited by Mattyblue
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12 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

holy ****,has anybody seen our next six games,we are well and truly in the smelly stuff

I think most fans with their finger on the pulse yes. That's why we are crying out for TM to go now and not giving him any longer. For me the next winnable game is Wycombe in April. This situation is dire, the players are either not listening to Tony which is bad, or they are, which is worse. And the closer we get to the drop zone, I fear for us because we have no fight in that team.

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7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I wouldn’t say so, as pretty much every other manager we’ve had in the last decade has received at least some criticism from said WhatsAppers, as is just normal with football fans - it is a totally unique phenomenon with TM this.

The last paragraph, of course, it will all be ‘yeah probably time for a change’ if he went tomorrow.

 

I honestly think that some fans really believe that any criticism of the club by them is almost being disloyal and therefore pretty much defend anything or in some cases don't offer an opinion. Thinking back to the protest times many fans were critical and sometimes aggressive towards those protesting and I really think that some of the fans you are referring to fell into that category.

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7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I honestly think that some fans really believe that any criticism of the club by them is almost being disloyal and therefore pretty much defend anything or in some cases don't offer an opinion. Thinking back to the protest times many fans were critical and sometimes aggressive towards those protesting and I really think that some of the fans you are referring to fell into that category.

But they aren’t, this is why it’s so bloody strange, these aren’t happy clappers we are talking about, just normal fans who have never previously not slagged off managers, the majority were on the marches, signing petitions a decade back. It is solely a TM thing. I can only think it is the trauma of L1 relegation.

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31 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Quick success with Huddersfield in this division with less resources than Venkys are providing. Best pals with Klopp, could lean on loans from Liverpool. Will keep the ganguepress style of play that we all enjoyed at the start of season. History of bringing though youngsters, Cat A academy. 
Sounds mental, but I would like a foreign coach to get a go. 

Well I think Tony is doing both jobs right now, so yeah you would need too.

I think you have to huge credit to Huddersfield Sporting Director Stuart Webber for hiring Wagner and the signings for that promotion. Before he left for Norwich..

I think Wagner made alot of poor signings after Webber left there

 But we all have different opinions on replacements and who we would go for. I also think experience Sporting director at the club with overseas head coach isnt the worst idea tbh. 

2 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Did you see his spell with Schalke, that has now led to that German giant getting relegated. Worse than a Tony defeat death spiral. No thanks. And I don’t want to be leaning on loans 

 

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5 minutes ago, Lucimo said:

I think most fans with their finger on the pulse yes. That's why we are crying out for TM to go now and not giving him any longer. For me the next winnable game is Wycombe in April. This situation is dire, the players are either not listening to Tony which is bad, or they are, which is worse. And the closer we get to the drop zone, I fear for us because we have no fight in that team.

The next winnable game, is always, and always will be , the next game. No matter who it is against.

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Just now, rigger said:

The next winnable game, is always, and always will be , the next game. No matter who it is against.

er,in our present state i don`t see a game away at reading as winnable,unless some biblical miracle occurs and we start to be organised and defensively sound

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8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Not like this. Kean had lost the vast, vast majority of fans well before the end, even earlier on a lot of the rows were about how it ‘doesn’t help the team’ to protest, not that Kean needed supporting personally. However, if TM was sacked tomorrow it wouldn’t be because of fan pressure.

What makes TM is unique in the fact that he doesn’t ever even receive mild criticism, never mind calls for his head from large swathes of fans.

I agree it’s not on the same level as Kean, I was just meaning there’s always a type of person who won’t have anything said bad about anyone behind the scenes at the club. They’ll slate individual players but manager, CEO or chairman get a free pass. It’s like they don’t think a manager is really necessary to achieve results and it’s purely down to the players.

They don’t seem to want to acknowledge it’s the manager who brings in the players, picks them and coaches them.

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7 minutes ago, booth said:

I agree it’s not on the same level as Kean, I was just meaning there’s always a type of person who won’t have anything said bad about anyone behind the scenes at the club. They’ll slate individual players but manager, CEO or chairman get a free pass. It’s like they don’t think a manager is really necessary to achieve results and it’s purely down to the players.

They don’t seem to want to acknowledge it’s the manager who brings in the players, picks them and coaches them.

My point is, I can’t recall a manager, and I include actual quality managers like Hughes, Souness, Allardyce who did actual consistently good jobs year after year, that was this immune to even slight criticism from so many fans.

Edited by Mattyblue
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11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Didn't Watford have 4 managers in one season the previous time they won promotion?

Instability clearly works at some clubs

 

Edited by jim mk2
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