Tony Mowbray Discussion

[davulsukur]

On 21/03/2021 at 10:30, J*B said:

There’s people on this site that are 10 years deep into investigating Venkys and Rovers. @glen9mullanspent years looking at it, ending with his family being targeted with the club. @Kamy100has been working alongside journalists for the best part of a decade and has some really shocking stories of threats he’s had. If they’re at a 7 or 8 on ‘the truth of Venkys time at Rovers’ scale, I would describe myself as at 3. And by that all I mean is I understand how the business works. For the sake of transparency, I’ve put it below:

Venkys

They’re absolutely wadded - Billions on top of Billions, mostly through the chicken business set up by their father, but they’ve also personally made a tonne of money buying land around India, which has significantly gone up in value.   
Rovers is Balaji’s investment. He loves the idea of investing in interesting businesses. He owns a football club, a music production company, a film company. Those are the circles he enjoys to be in. His son is very interested in Rovers and one day, the plan is for it to be his. 
 

Venkys Staff involved at Rovers

Suhail Pasha, who has worked for the family since 2009 in a whole host of roles. He started off relatively low in the business but has done well and now has Balaji’s support. He does a whole host of jobs but is trusted to run Balaji’s investments and make decisions on his behalf. He’s well trusted and in the inner circle. He is currently living in the area and running Rovers, reporting directly back to Balaji. 

Gandhi Babu, he works between Zurich and Pune and manages Balaji’s group of investments of which Rovers is one. He’s trusted by Balaji and reports back to him on the progress of his investments individually and as a group. If you have a business and want investment from Venkys, you speak to Babu who decides whether it is worth it and if so, recommends it back up the ladder. 

Rovers management 

Balaji trusts Mowbray because he thinks he’s honest. He’s been stung before by people taking advantage and he doesn’t think Mowbray is doing. So he has his support. 

To fulfil EFL requirements you must have someone they deem to be up to standard as CEO and FD. Mowbray was asked for recommendations on who could fit these roles, in came Waggott as CEO. They fulfil their obligations within the club but ultimately Waggott reports to Pasha and Cheston reports to Babu. Key decisions (from money to on the pitch) are taken by Pasha and Babu. 

Absolute nightmare fuel.

No end to the Venky reign of terror in sight.

[Ben Frost]

2 hours ago, Ulrich said:

Since we seemed to have reached a census, can we rename the thread the TM statement.

That was yesterday 

[47er]

On 23/03/2021 at 06:30, RoverInverness said:

If Balaji’s son payed attention to results or (wishing for the stars here) perhaps even attended the odd game now and then - it would be infinitely better than now.

 

The only chance we have got imo.

Balaji won't sell nor will he involve himself in the club to gain the knowledge and experience needed. Doesn't worry about the money lost---plenty more where that came from. Buy something else and move on.

A spoit brat who wouldn't understand how we fans have invested so much of our lives in this great old club, often with family connections going back generations. 

His son has been schooled here and lives here now. Maybe, just maybe, he can develop affection for the club he'll be handed on a plate. I don't expect to be around when and if it happens, however let's hope there's enough fans left to see it.

[tomphil]

Well it was a few years ago that i spoke to this lad on social media as at the time he was engaging with a few people. He was only young obviously but his attitude reflected what we all suspect and see anyway.

Basically he could see no wrong in what was going on - this was in the crazy days - but acknowledged things needed to settle down. He then just said people needn't worry because his family had the wealth to see it through.

Probably another 50 million gone down the pan since then so he wasn't wrong. Sadly though the too much wealth seems part of the problem. It's created a midtable monster than has the appetite of a top club but the direction of a hamster wheel.

Round and round we go and i wouldn't hold much hope of this lad making any difference. It's still just a handy loss making toy to play with and fire surplus money through. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Well it was a few years ago that i spoke to this lad on social media as at the time he was engaging with a few people. He was only young obviously but his attitude reflected what we all suspect and see anyway.

Basically he could see no wrong in what was going on - this was in the crazy days - but acknowledged things needed to settle down. He then just said people needn't worry because his family had the wealth to see it through.

Probably another 50 million gone down the pan since then so he wasn't wrong. Sadly though the too much wealth seems part of the problem. It's created a midtable monster than has the appetite of a top club but the direction of a hamster wheel.

Round and round we go and i wouldn't hold much hope of this lad making any difference. It's still just a handy loss making toy to play with and fire surplus money through. 

Has anyone explained how a "handy loss making toy" works? 

Not saying it's not the case, I just can't believe it's anything less than being inept. I don't think it's some plan to wash money, I think they just aren't very good football club owners. 

[47er]

12 minutes ago, tomphil said:

i wouldn't hold much hope of this lad making any difference

I said he was the only hope we had so you're saying we have no hope---and I'm quite inclined to believe that.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Has anyone explained how a "handy loss making toy" works? 

Not saying it's not the case, I just can't believe it's anything less than being inept. I don't think it's some plan to wash money, I think they just aren't very good football club owners. 

Yeah inept and they aren't that bothered about it because it just sits handily in the portfolio. 

There's no proof of washing but there can be no other sane reason why they are happy to 'lose' all that money yearly other than it's a handy accounting tool. If they couldn't afford it and it didn't serve a purpose it just wouldn't happen it's as simple as that. No way are they dim enough to put their own conglomerate or personal wealth at risk for a British football club.

Who knows who's actually on the payroll over here anyway, nobody but them and their accountants know where every penny goes.

[JHRover]

I think there are parallels to be drawn with the new Sunderland owner Louis Dreyfuss. He's only 24 and his mummy is heir to a multi billion organisation left by her deceased husband. 

It seems that he wants a project to occupy himself whilst the rest of his family run the core business in Switzerland he can play with his football set. I suspect a similar arrangement here with Balaji. Plenty of money sloshing around back home and the adults are quite happy sending some his way to keep him occupied and out of the way of the serious stuff.

Difference of course is that Balaji seems to have zero interest in this club at any level and hasn't even been to a game in years. What kick he gets from it who knows. The Dreyfuss lad clearly knows his stuff and the family have a history in football so expect to see their project work out whereas this one goes nowhere

 

[RoversClitheroe]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Well it was a few years ago that i spoke to this lad on social media as at the time he was engaging with a few people. He was only young obviously but his attitude reflected what we all suspect and see anyway.

Basically he could see no wrong in what was going on - this was in the crazy days - but acknowledged things needed to settle down. He then just said people needn't worry because his family had the wealth to see it through.

Probably another 50 million gone down the pan since then so he wasn't wrong. Sadly though the too much wealth seems part of the problem. It's created a midtable monster than has the appetite of a top club but the direction of a hamster wheel.

Round and round we go and i wouldn't hold much hope of this lad making any difference. It's still just a handy loss making toy to play with and fire surplus money through. 

He's a clever lad though, went to a good uni etc.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

The only chance we have got imo.

Balaji won't sell nor will he involve himself in the club to gain the knowledge and experience needed. Doesn't worry about the money lost---plenty more where that came from. Buy something else and move on.

A spoit brat who wouldn't understand how we fans have invested so much of our lives in this great old club, often with family connections going back generations. 

His son has been schooled here and lives here now. Maybe, just maybe, he can develop affection for the club he'll be handed on a plate. I don't expect to be around when and if it happens, however let's hope there's enough fans left to see it.

Did he go to QEGS Lol?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Yeah inept and they aren't that bothered about it because it just sits handily in the portfolio. 

There's no proof of washing but there can be no other sane reason why they are happy to 'lose' all that money yearly other than it's a handy accounting tool. If they couldn't afford it and it didn't serve a purpose it just wouldn't happen it's as simple as that. No way are they dim enough to put their own conglomerate or personal wealth at risk for a British football club.

Who knows who's actually on the payroll over here anyway, nobody but them and their accountants know where every penny goes.

Cultural differences. They would lose the money just to not have to lose the club and admit their failure. Thats my take. Awful situation for us. 

However no doubt if there was a loophole they could use with the club with regards washing money,  that's happening now too 

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Well it was a few years ago that i spoke to this lad on social media as at the time he was engaging with a few people. He was only young obviously but his attitude reflected what we all suspect and see anyway.

Basically he could see no wrong in what was going on - this was in the crazy days - but acknowledged things needed to settle down. He then just said people needn't worry because his family had the wealth to see it through.

Probably another 50 million gone down the pan since then so he wasn't wrong. Sadly though the too much wealth seems part of the problem. It's created a midtable monster than has the appetite of a top club but the direction of a hamster wheel.

Round and round we go and i wouldn't hold much hope of this lad making any difference. It's still just a handy loss making toy to play with and fire surplus money through. 

Round and round the Mowbray bush

[TheRoversReturn]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Cultural differences. They would lose the money just to not have to lose the club and admit their failure. Thats my take. Awful situation for us. 

However no doubt if there was a loophole they could use with the club with regards washing money,  that's happening now too 

It really hurts the head just trying to work out the entire mess that has been the last ten years. 

It just doesn't make sense for them to lose money on something for year after year. Not ten years. People say they're awash with money, you don't remain that way by ignoring something that loses you tens of millions. For a decade. Whenever talk was of someone else buying Rovers, they've not been interested in selling. How does that work? We don't care at all about the club, not even to sell it? 

A theory that seems to hold no weight is their losing face by selling us. Barely anyone in India knows about Venky's owning Rovers and even fewer care.  Indian football fans rarely even know, they follow Man U or Man City if anyone. The family themselves are not household names on the subcontinent. It's all so inexplicable. Whatever the hell it is that keeps Venky's owning Rovers, I'd love to know. We all would.

One thing we can be sure of; Whatever it is that keeps Venky's refusing to sell our club, It certainly ain't about what happens on the pitch, now is it? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

45 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

It really hurts the head just trying to work out the entire mess that has been the last ten years. 

It just doesn't make sense for them to lose money on something for year after year. Not ten years. People say they're awash with money, you don't remain that way by ignoring something that loses you tens of millions. For a decade. Whenever talk was of someone else buying Rovers, they've not been interested in selling. How does that work? We don't care at all about the club, not even to sell it? 

A theory that seems to hold no weight is their losing face by selling us. Barely anyone in India knows about Venky's owning Rovers and even fewer care.  Indian football fans rarely even know, they follow Man U or Man City if anyone. The family themselves are not household names on the subcontinent. It's all so inexplicable. Whatever the hell it is that keeps Venky's owning Rovers, I'd love to know. We all would.

One thing we can be sure of; Whatever it is that keeps Venky's refusing to sell our club, It certainly ain't about what happens on the pitch, now is it? 

Don't underestimate the story when or if they sell the club. A lot that are afraid to say anything now will be out reporting on their ownership over the past 10 years. 

I reckon they feel they have to get us to the PL to save face before selling. The problem is they don't know how to do that. 

[tomphil]

I've never really bought into the face saving thing certainly not after the first few years when it might have held a bit of sway. As daft as the snowball = taps off, coyle and relegation on purpose theory.

They are embarrassing themselves more by throwing money down the drain every year.

Now maybe it could be an ego thing, look at us we own this club and don't mind pouring tens of millions into other pockets, just because we can. That might make a bit more sense in their world and adds to the play thing theory. 

But just sheer face saving costing 150 million, nah i'm not having that at all.  Arse covering and skeletons in closets now that's a different reason entirely.

[RoversClitheroe]

Best thing about the international break - no ridiculously delusional quotes coming out of TM, and don't have to watch his quite frankly awfully boring and annoying style of play.

 

[gumboots]

Worst thing about the international break is that he'll still be here after it and use it as an excuse for lack of sharpness.

[broadsword]

If they're so wadded are we trying to sell off half the training ground. 

[tomphil]

Yep they could pay for it all on a separate tab if it was so vitally important right at this moment. They won't even do that for the pitch though, this is obviously something that's been completely cooked up by the ex Coventry lot.

I hope the residents burn effigies of Waggot and Mowbray the pair of chancers.

[RoverInverness]

On 24/03/2021 at 13:21, TheRoversReturn said:

It really hurts the head just trying to work out the entire mess that has been the last ten years. 

It just doesn't make sense for them to lose money on something for year after year. Not ten years. People say they're awash with money, you don't remain that way by ignoring something that loses you tens of millions. For a decade. Whenever talk was of someone else buying Rovers, they've not been interested in selling. How does that work? We don't care at all about the club, not even to sell it? 

A theory that seems to hold no weight is their losing face by selling us. Barely anyone in India knows about Venky's owning Rovers and even fewer care.  Indian football fans rarely even know, they follow Man U or Man City if anyone. The family themselves are not household names on the subcontinent. It's all so inexplicable. Whatever the hell it is that keeps Venky's owning Rovers, I'd love to know. We all would.

One thing we can be sure of; Whatever it is that keeps Venky's refusing to sell our club, It certainly ain't about what happens on the pitch, now is it? 

It makes no sense, but there must be an explanation. The face saving theory doesn’t stack up for me, it would be such small news in the U.K and India.

Hanging on to the club as a toy for Balaji’s son doesn’t sound particularly likely to me either.  Where is he? Why is he not attending matches? He doesn’t seem overly interested in his gift tbh.

Keeping the place to create loses - to avoid paying taxes in India - on the surface sounds plausible, but it seems a funny way to ‘lose’ money to me and I’m not sure that it’s a theory that stands up to scrutiny. Why not make losses in something they cared about - movies, cricket? Also, if owning a loss making football club was such a simple way to avoid paying taxes - can anyone with genuine knowledge please provide me with an example of another club that is owned to deliberately lose money to lower the owners tax bill? 

The theory that the club is used to launder dirty money is just conspiracy stuff. Of course, like all good conspiracies, it can’t be disproved, but it is an explanation that has no actual evidence to support it. Nor does it have any logic to it either. How does it even work? 

The only explanation I am left with - and it doesn’t get as much discussion as some of the other more sensational theories -  is that we are the accident purchase of a bunch of squabbling, dysfunctional siblings whose squabbling and dysfunction also prevents them from getting rid of us. Not being very bright or worldly wise (at least two of them thick as pig shit) they were stitched up good and proper by a slimy salesman called #¥$€*^ ¥}#%€*$¥ who sold them a load of nonsense that they fell for. Now probably three of them would get out if they could, but the fat, stupid, lazy, stubborn brother who introduced them too #¥$€*^ ¥}#%€*$¥ in the first place insists they have to keep it, not ‘cos it gives him any pleasure, but because he won’t admit defeat to his sister. He’s very stubborn and very stupid and doesn’t like admitting the idea he proposed (egged on and aided by the aforementioned agent of Satan)  was a dead dog of an idea. It’s not about avoiding losing face to the rest of the world, or even the rest of India. We are still owned by Venkys because one stupid fat slug won’t admit failure to his siblings.

Not that I know fuck all - like anyone else on here - about this matter, but it’s the only explanation that really sticks for me.

 

[tomphil]

Why not splurge spare money you can afford on a 'real life' game of football manager though ?  They won't be the only rich people to do this the game is littered with them. They just don't normally stick it out this long once the novelty has worn off.

If it sits there in the companies portfolio though swallowing up 10/20 million of profits per year that surely helps against the tax bill.  Propping up a cash hungry arm of the conglomerate that sits in the books as a 200 million dollar oversees asset. That theoretically if you really needed to could send money back the other way it it ever made sense to do so.

Daft, distracted, busy and odd as they may be there team of accountants and financial whizz kids aren't.

[RoverInverness]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Why not splurge spare money you can afford on a 'real life' game of football manager though ?  They won't be the only rich people to do this the game is littered with them. They just don't normally stick it out this long once the novelty has worn off.

If it sits there in the companies portfolio though swallowing up 10/20 million of profits per year that surely helps against the tax bill.  Propping up a cash hungry arm of the conglomerate that sits in the books as a 200 million dollar oversees asset. That theoretically if you really needed to could send money back the other way it it ever made sense to do so.

Daft, distracted, busy and odd as they may be there team of accountants and financial whizz kids aren't.

OK - genuine question - what other clubs are strategically owned to make money by losing money? If it works for V’s it could work for many others. I will stand corrected if you can tell me some examples without just entering into more speculation. 

Also - Balaji stopped playing real life football manager years ago. We all know this. It wasn’t him who put Gallagher to right back, he doesn’t even know who Gallagher is. The only person ‘playing’ at football manager these days is TM. And he ain’t any good at it either.

Finally - I take the point about their accountants not being as dumb as them - but I don’t believe that people who were simple enough to be taken in by S***e K**n are listening to their accountants because they are wise enough to know good advice from bad advise. Venkys listen to charlatans and con-men, we know this for fact. You’re speculating that they are now listening to financial whizz kids - well they never did before.

I’m not meaning to be deliberately argumentative btw, I don’t normally think you’re wrong, in fact probably the opposite, but I don’t buy those arguments above at all.

[Bbrovers2288]

Am I right in thinking we signed Ayala after he failed a medical at some Asian based team? 

[PeteJD13]

10 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Am I right in thinking we signed Ayala after he failed a medical at some Asian based team? 

I’m fairly sure if Mowbray does lose his job, it’s not on performance it will be signing Ayala 

[RoversClitheroe]

10 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

I’m fairly sure if Mowbray does lose his job, it’s not on performance it will be signing Ayala 

That's what the rumours are saying!