Pedro 3591 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, roversfan99 said: Not only is there absolutely no sign of any incomings but it looks like there wont be any major outgoings. The likes of Samuel and Smallwood seem content to see out 6 months more on wages that League 1 teams wont come close to matching and then leaving on a free in the summer, which you can understand. How many permanent TM signings have actually come good and had an impact that has anywhere near matched their contract? Dack - definitely S Downing - absolutely Armstrong - Yes P Downing - No. Now left Bell - No. Contract up in the summer Rodwell - No. Now left. Smallwood - yes league one, unused for a year so No. Contract up in the summer. Chapman - No. Samuel - No. Gladwin - No. Now left. Rothwell - No, only fleetingly. Holtby - not yet Davenport - no Brereton - No Gallagher - Not yet Johnson - No Whittingham - No. Now left. Nuttall - No. Now left. Hart - No. Effectively left. Caddis- No. Now left. Leutweiller - No Lyons - No Apologies if I have missed anyone but I think they are largely absolutely pitiful dealings and MILLIONS have been wasted in fees and wages. I wouldn't trust him with another penny and (alongside the poor tactics and selections) just don't get the love in with him. Edited January 25, 2020 by Pedro Link to post Share on other sites
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DE. 12539 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said: is mowbray making the decisions??the brereton situation stinks of somebody else`s involvement,it defies belief that an experienced manager can`t see that the lad needs to out on loan and get confidence and game time,i honestly believe mowbray did`nt want him and someone at the club was in cahoots with an agent and mowbray just wants nothing to do with him I'm sure I read somewhere (possibly on this thread) that Mowbray and Brereton have the same agent which if true lends more credence to the idea that it was Mowbray's decision with perhaps some influence from his agent. As for why Brereton isn't being loaned out - the only reason I can think of is that Mowbray doesn't want to lose face by loaning out a guy we paid a lot of money for only a year and a half ago. Not a good look for him to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites
simongarnerisgod 2378 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 bit unfair on davenport,we`ve never really seen what he can do,same with chapman,though i suspect that`s more a case of mowbray not liking individuality Link to post Share on other sites
Pedro 3591 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said: bit unfair on davenport,we`ve never really seen what he can do,same with chapman,though i suspect that`s more a case of mowbray not liking individuality I really like both. He doesn't and will pick Benno before either. I'm just pointing out the terrible returns on transfer investments. Chapman has been fit for ages and been waterboy until a few weeks ago, now we are led to believe he's after taking a multi-million pound punt on a young Polish right winger...when our young right winger only ever gets a cameo on the left! Also, how many of those have been long-term injured in training or suffered recurrent strains? Too many for it be a coincidence I feel. Something is fundamentally wrong in the coaching set up. Link to post Share on other sites
AllRoverAsia 6409 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 20 minutes ago, DE. said: I'm sure I read somewhere (possibly on this thread) that Mowbray and Brereton have the same agent which if true lends more credence to the idea that it was Mowbray's decision with perhaps some influence from his agent. As for why Brereton isn't being loaned out - the only reason I can think of is that Mowbray doesn't want to lose face by loaning out a guy we paid a lot of money for only a year and a half ago. Not a good look for him to say the least. I saw that in a blog written by a well known "Late of this Parish" who is well connected for such stuff Link to post Share on other sites
Silas 1909 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, DE. said: As for why Brereton isn't being loaned out - the only reason I can think of is that Mowbray doesn't want to lose face by loaning out a guy we paid a lot of money for only a year and a half ago. Not a good look for him to say the least. And therein lies the problem. I feel like these older school managers like Mowbray, and at top level Mourinho for example, really care what people think of them. They have a legacy to protect, a longstanding career to keep as clean as possible. Whilst the newer managers on the block at top level - Chris Wilder, Nuno Santo, even Dean Smith- I sense they don't give a toss what people think. They're hungry, and willing to sacrifice anything for progress. Even their own reputation, so they take risks. Let's not forget Wilder could be the laughing stock of football if his overlapping centre back thing had backfired. If TM loaned BB out, BB smashed it, got his confidence, and came back beginning next season and hit the ground running, TM would be hailed a genius. But it would take balls, and more importantly, an abandoning of his pride and stubbornness, to make the decision. I just don't think he has it in him. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike E 6645 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Pedro said: I think the truth is (from good authority), his mum pushed for a move because it was damaging for his career with the relegation and how he had hardly been used (bit of a theme there for young wingers under TM). I wouldn't say it worked out but I imagine he got a pay rise - and Dorset is a lovely part of the world. I'd have said the same to my son too (at that point in time). I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought he got quite a lot of game time under Mowbray but proved frustrating. I feel like he kicked off at lack of automatic starts and took the pay rise on the bench of a PL club instead of working hard. He's not exactly done much since he left. Maybe I'm being harsh though. Link to post Share on other sites
roversfan99 9215 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 44 minutes ago, Pedro said: How many permanent TM signings have actually come good and had an impact that has anywhere near matched their contract? Dack - definitely S Downing - absolutely Armstrong - Yes P Downing - No Bell - No Rodwell - no Smallwood - yes league one, unused for a year so No Chapman - No Gladwin - no Rothwell - yes, fleetingly Holtby - not yet Davenport - no Brereton - No Gallagher - Not yet Johnson - No Whittingham - No Nuttall - No Apologies if I have missed anyone but I think they are largely absolutely pitiful dealings and MILLIONS have been wasted in fees and wages. I wouldn't trust him with another penny and (alongside the poor tactics and selections) just don't get the love in with him. I think youve been very generous on Rothwell! Otherwise you are spot on. Holtby might well at some stage become a yes, Gallagher almost certainly a no. Add Samuel, Hart, Caddis ans Leutwiler to the no's. Link to post Share on other sites
chaddyrovers 6428 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, roversfan99 said: Not only is there absolutely no sign of any incomings but it looks like there wont be any major outgoings. The likes of Samuel and Smallwood seem content to see out 6 months more on wages that League 1 teams wont come close to matching and then leaving on a free in the summer, which you can understand. Who knows what is going on at Rovers incoming transfers wise. The Market has usual is slow as always and After the weekend will be Chaos as always. We don't know what Samuel and Smallwood are on wages wise but I don't see why they want to play no proper football and just train after train. I would rather be playing regular football than not. Even if it on less wages. Link to post Share on other sites
roversfan99 9215 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said: Who knows what is going on at Rovers incoming transfers wise. The Market has usual is slow as always and After the weekend will be Chaos as always. We don't know what Samuel and Smallwood are on wages wise but I don't see why they want to play no proper football and just train after train. I would rather be playing regular football than not. Even if it on less wages. Its easy to say when its not you potentially losing 10s of thousands just to play potentially regular football for 5 months. Rather than rushing to move now, they can take their time in the summer as a free agent with more options. We should never have extended Smallwoods contract, it was always a premature decision. Dont think anythings gonna happen chaddy. Link to post Share on other sites
Pedro 3591 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said: I think youve been very generous on Rothwell! Otherwise you are spot on. Holtby might well at some stage become a yes, Gallagher almost certainly a no. Add Samuel, Hart, Caddis ans Leutwiler to the no's. Sorry, yes I agree. On balance he hasn't done enough or been used enough. I didn't realise he signed Hart and Leutweiler and forgot about Caddis...so it's getting worse...at 22 years old, Brad Lyons must be considered too. At least twenty one permanent signings and only 3 decent ones who have made an impact. Woeful. I personally think Holtby will come good too and I live in hope for Gallagher to improve and contribute more. Link to post Share on other sites
Wood26 427 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 We don’t need to sign anyone, as I’ve said before, squad is good enough to see what happens this year. This squad is good enough for play offs and if we go up then we go from there. If we don’t, then we shop and sell in summer. Unless there is a player who walks into our team and makes us better, play the youth fringe players. Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie 791 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Wood26 said: We don’t need to sign anyone, as I’ve said before, squad is good enough to see what happens this year. This squad is good enough for play offs and if we go up then we go from there. If we don’t, then we shop and sell in summer. Unless there is a player who walks into our team and makes us better, play the youth fringe players. Our last stint in the Championship should have told us that you don't get that many chances to go up. There are a lot of seasons where you aren't in and around the playoffs. Look at Derby. They've gone from being arguably the second-best side in the league to a team that needs a small miracle to even make the playoffs. There's no guarantee that we will be a win or two off the playoffs next January. Other sides might get better. All 3 promoted sides might perform well. We might have more injuries. We are there now and there is every chance that the right player or two could significantly increase our chances. Anyone arguing that we should keep our powder dry might well find that they have saved our resources for a rainy day. Link to post Share on other sites
bluebruce 5100 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Pedro said: How many permanent TM signings have actually come good and had an impact that has anywhere near matched their contract? Dack - definitely S Downing - absolutely Armstrong - Yes P Downing - No. Now left Bell - No. Contract up in the summer Rodwell - No. Now left. Smallwood - yes league one, unused for a year so No. Contract up in the summer. Chapman - No. Samuel - No. Gladwin - No. Now left. Rothwell - No, only fleetingly. Holtby - not yet Davenport - no Brereton - No Gallagher - Not yet Johnson - No Whittingham - No. Now left. Nuttall - No. Now left. Hart - No. Effectively left. Caddis- No. Now left. Leutweiller - No Lyons - No Mostly agree, but... Nuttall is a definite yes, never a no. Cost barely anything, contributed goals, and was sold for half a million. It was a good deal, worked out well. Almost paid for Dack, that! Downing contributed, steadying the ship for us a couple of times. We did make a loss on him as we foolishly let him go for free and left ourselves short, but I don't consider it a fail. Rodwell filled a gap and probably didn't cost much, so just a 'meh' one for me. Chapman, Davenport, Lyons and even Brereton have to go under 'not yet' for now. Though I'll be astonished if Brereton makes it. Lyons probably isn't gonna get a look in because we are ludicrously high on numbers in his position, but he cost sod all really and always looked like a cheap youth team gambit that nothing was expected of, to fill a space for the u23s. Link to post Share on other sites
andyroversmad 123 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Bit harsh on Holtby. He has scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists while Tony keeps playing him in different positions Link to post Share on other sites
roversfan99 9215 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, andyroversmad said: Bit harsh on Holtby. He has scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists while Tony keeps playing him in different positions The judgement is of the managers signings though. If he signs a good player and fails to get the best from him, whether it is playing him out of position, infrequently, whatever, it cant be deemed an unequivocal success. That being said, I can see him being deemed one at the end of the season. Link to post Share on other sites
magicalmortensleftpeg 1515 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Isn’t the issue with analysing the signings is the size of the fee and therefore risk vs reward. I’d say that signing Dack easily makes up for a number of cheap misses eg Gladwin, Samuel, Lyons, Whittingham and Hart. He’s found us a £15m+ asset for £750k. Smallwood as well. Cost very little but pivotal in our L1 campaign. Surely that’s justified the fee..? Johnson has been a reasonable back up CM this season so I wouldn’t class him as a miss. Downing has been a revelation. The obvious failures are Brereton and Gallagher. Not simply because they’ve played poorly but because of the fees involved. Brereton is looking like being one of, if not the, worst piece of transfer business we have ever done. We can not afford to gamble £5m plus on a youth product with no pedigree. He will forever be a black stain on Tony’s tenure here. Link to post Share on other sites
JacknOry 4997 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said: Isn’t the issue with analysing the signings is the size of the fee and therefore risk vs reward. I’d say that signing Dack easily makes up for a number of cheap misses eg Gladwin, Samuel, Lyons, Whittingham and Hart. He’s found us a £15m+ asset for £750k. Smallwood as well. Cost very little but pivotal in our L1 campaign. Surely that’s justified the fee..? Johnson has been a reasonable back up CM this season so I wouldn’t class him as a miss. Downing has been a revelation. The obvious failures are Brereton and Gallagher. Not simply because they’ve played poorly but because of the fees involved. Brereton is looking like being one of, if not the, worst piece of transfer business we have ever done. We can not afford to gamble £5m plus on a youth product with no pedigree. He will forever be a black stain on Tony’s tenure here. He was a 15 mil asset - who knows whether he still will be after his return from injury and a contract that will be in its last year. Edited January 25, 2020 by JacknOry Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Mani 3424 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Just now, JacknOry said: He was a 15 mil asset - who knows whether he still will be after his return from injury and a contract that will have just 6 months left on it. Good point but the club have a 12 month contract trigger that they’ll prob go with.. Link to post Share on other sites
JacknOry 4997 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Paul Mani said: Good point but the club have a 12 month contract trigger that they’ll prob go with.. is that non-negotiable on Dacks side? Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. Edited January 25, 2020 by JacknOry Link to post Share on other sites
Pedro 3591 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 5 hours ago, andyroversmad said: Bit harsh on Holtby. He has scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists while Tony keeps playing him in different positions He's a definite not yet though. Apart from his 60 min debut and the last game he haan't had much of an impact - the same as many on that list, either not used correctly, or barely used at all. I said it at the time, I honestly think Holtby was Dack's January replacement. Link to post Share on other sites
magicalmortensleftpeg 1515 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, JacknOry said: is that non-negotiable on Dacks side? Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. For the purposes of this discussion, Dack is an unmitigated success having been bought for a relatively low fee and now worth considerably more. Obviously the injury may dictate how the future lies but I won’t lay that at Mowbray’s door. Link to post Share on other sites
47er 9320 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Silas said: If TM loaned BB out, BB smashed it, got his confidence, and came back beginning next season and hit the ground running, TM would be hailed a genius That's a lot of "ifs"! Link to post Share on other sites
roverandout 1871 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Silas said: And therein lies the problem. I feel like these older school managers like Mowbray, and at top level Mourinho for example, really care what people think of them. They have a legacy to protect, a longstanding career to keep as clean as possible. Whilst the newer managers on the block at top level - Chris Wilder, Nuno Santo, even Dean Smith- I sense they don't give a toss what people think. They're hungry, and willing to sacrifice anything for progress. Even their own reputation, so they take risks. Let's not forget Wilder could be the laughing stock of football if his overlapping centre back thing had backfired. If TM loaned BB out, BB smashed it, got his confidence, and came back beginning next season and hit the ground running, TM would be hailed a genius. But it would take balls, and more importantly, an abandoning of his pride and stubbornness, to make the decision. I just don't think he has it in him. What legacy does mowbray have to protect? One significant promotion? Link to post Share on other sites
Bigdoggsteel 8398 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 This guy off to Leeds apparently. Could be a game changer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Kévin_Augustin Link to post Share on other sites
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