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1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Good point but the club have a 12 month contract trigger that they’ll prob go with..

is that non-negotiable on Dacks side?

Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. 

Edited by JacknOry
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This. Along with 4000’s post. Why buy two strikers for so much money if it was never the intention to play them both, in their normal position at the same time? Why buy so many midfielders when appare

It's more than just being in this "crap division " for me matey. It's the whole mess, the debt, the powerlessness, the alienation from the fans of the what used to be what I felt was my club, the lots

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5 hours ago, andyroversmad said:

Bit harsh on Holtby. He has scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists while Tony keeps playing him in different positions 

He's a definite not yet though. Apart from his 60 min debut and the last game  he haan't had much of an impact - the same as many on that list, either not used correctly, or barely used at all.  I said it at the time, I honestly think Holtby was Dack's January replacement.

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1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

is that non-negotiable on Dacks side?

Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. 

For the purposes of this discussion, Dack is an unmitigated success having been bought for a relatively low fee and now worth considerably more. Obviously the injury may dictate how the future lies but I won’t lay that at Mowbray’s door.

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9 hours ago, Silas said:

If TM loaned BB out, BB smashed it, got his confidence,  and came back beginning next season and hit the ground running, TM would be hailed a genius

That's a lot of "ifs"!

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9 hours ago, Silas said:

And therein lies the problem.

I feel like these older school managers like Mowbray, and at top level Mourinho for example, really care what people think of them. They have a legacy to protect, a longstanding career to keep as clean as possible. 

Whilst the newer managers on the block at top level - Chris Wilder, Nuno Santo, even Dean Smith-  I sense they don't give a toss what people think. 

They're hungry, and willing to sacrifice anything for progress. Even their own reputation, so they take risks.

Let's not forget Wilder could be the laughing stock of football if his overlapping centre back thing had backfired. 

If TM loaned BB out, BB smashed it, got his confidence,  and came back beginning next season and hit the ground running, TM would be hailed a genius.

But it would take balls, and more importantly,  an abandoning of his pride and stubbornness, to make the decision. I just don't think he has it in him. 

What legacy does mowbray have to protect? One significant promotion?

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10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Not only is there absolutely no sign of any incomings but it looks like there wont be any major outgoings. The likes of Samuel and Smallwood seem content to see out 6 months more on wages that League 1 teams wont come close to matching and then leaving on a free in the summer, which you can understand.

You know the way Mowbray has always let guys get the best move for themselves, like say when he let Ward go on loan for the last 6 months if his contract,Paul Downing too? It's what he does. Well I was thinking , do the players not owe the club the same? I mean should Samuel and Smallwood not take paycuys to go and free up some wages here? Particularly as things are tight. It seems the treating players fairly and as human beings is a one way street. 

Maybe that's a bit harsh and I don't know what offers are there, but I agree we do need to move players on who won't feature. 

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Its frustrating that the likes of Smallwood and Samuel are picking up a decent wage whilst doing nothing, but I don't blame them for wanting to see out there contracts for the sake of 6 months, these are probably the best deals either of them will have in there career.

I have to say though, as things stand in the summer we'll need to do a hell of lot of work just to stand still in this league.

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3 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Its frustrating that the likes of Smallwood and Samuel are picking up a decent wage whilst doing nothing, but I don't blame them for wanting to see out there contracts for the sake of 6 months, these are probably the best deals either of them will have in there career.

I have to say though, as things stand in the summer we'll need to do a hell of lot of work just to stand still in this league.

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

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9 minutes ago, arbitro said:

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

Ya,but it's worth waiting til the window closes to see if we can get a better deal. Mutual termination only saves peanuts. 

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Just now, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

For the purposes of this discussion, Dack is an unmitigated success having been bought for a relatively low fee and now worth considerably more. Obviously the injury may dictate how the future lies but I won’t lay that at Mowbray’s door.

Not disputing that. 

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9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its easy to say when its not you potentially losing 10s of thousands just to play potentially regular football for 5 months. Rather than rushing to move now, they can take their time in the summer as a free agent with more options. We should never have extended Smallwoods contract, it was always a premature decision.

Dont think anythings gonna happen chaddy.

its very easy to say to post them when you aren't the player playing under 23's football and training. 

Smallwood has surely know for months now that he wont be playing 1st team football at this club. Look at Ben Marshall who is playing 10th division football. Why hasn't a league 1 or 2 club sign him? If I was a manager of a team in league 1 I would be very wary of signing either player if they are more bother about money than playing football and enjoying playing proper football again. 

We see the market put up after this weekend games as it always does in the transfer window. Every window is the same. Most of the window is slow and dull and then the last week of the transfer window is busy and chaos. 

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

is that non-negotiable on Dacks side?

Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. 


Its a club option so its down to the club not the player to decide. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,but it's worth waiting til the window closes to see if we can get a better deal. Mutual termination only saves peanuts. 

if we terminated their contracts after the window closes they cannot signed for another club until the summer

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1 hour ago, roverandout said:

What legacy does mowbray have to protect? One significant promotion?

Legacy was maybe a bit strong. But almost 2 decades as a manager, years served at top level in the Prem, managed one of biggest clubs in UK at Celtic. Not to be sniffed at.

1 hour ago, 47er said:

That's a lot of "ifs"!

Maybe, but what we're doing with him at the moment is a load of "butts"!

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15 hours ago, Pedro said:

Some games I actually really like Walton. He usually claims crosses very well (I know not the case at Preston). Other games/moments he worries me also but there is certainly potential there and he'll get better. For the right price, I'd be open to him staying as short-term 2nd choice behind an older head - with a view to becoming number 1.

I think if they sign him it'll be as no 1 i'm not sure i'd want a similar keeper anyway as that would mean rotating keepers !!!

 Agree he's settled in a bit now but is he worth paying a fee for ?

Edited by tomphil
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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

It's strange how everyone there seems happy for him to sit it out it must be very lucrative to him to do so.  Hope they don't end up in a similar situation with Mulgrew.

The players deserved some reward for the promotion season but it really looks like they went over the top with these 2. 

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Mowbray will probably want to keep Smallwood around for emergencies, especially with Evans out and Johnson's fitness and commitment questionable. Bennett and Tosin could play CM but Bennett is often needed for RB cover due to Nyambe's own fitness issues (although personally I'd rather play JRC there) and we need Tosin at CB due to the lack of decent cover there, too. I suppose theoretically Mulgrew could play DM in an emergency as well, but he has his own fitness problems and with his legs gone I'm not convinced he'd be able to adequetely protect the defence if put in that position. 

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But why keep those wages on the books if you can shift them and put the cash to better use ?

These things are the difference between trying to move forwards and standing still.

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2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

But why keep those wages on the books if you can shift them and put the cash to better use ?

These things are the difference between trying to move forwards and standing still.

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

Edited by DE.
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1 minute ago, DE. said:

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

I would imagine there could be extras like loyalty bonuses which would bump the figures up considerably.

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3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I would imagine there could be extras like loyalty bonuses which would bump the figures up considerably.

Perhaps, but I don't think Smallwood being here is a massive barrier to deals being done this month. With only another six months to run he'll surely be gone in the summer regardless. I'm far more annoyed by Mulgrew coming back and taking up a much larger slice of the wage bill with him likely to have minimal impact - and his contract runs until summer 2021 ffs. I genuinely think even if Smallwood had gone on Jan 1 we'd still be in the same position now in regards to incomings. I don't think it makes any difference. 

Edited by DE.
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6 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

No way is he on the wages of a league 1 or 2 player he'll be on Championship wages. The fact he's never had a sniff after being a favourite might suggest he has a very good appearance bonus or something built in.

Also no takers for him despite his pedigree in the leagues below point to him being on good wages here.

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1 minute ago, DE. said:

Perhaps, but I don't think Smallwood being here is a massive barrier to deals being done this month. With only another six months to run he'll surely be gone in the summer regardless. I'm far more annoyed by Mulgrew coming back and taking up a much larger slice of the wage bill with him likely to have minimal impact - and his contract runs until summer 2021 ffs. I genuinely think even if Smallwood had gone on Jan 1 we'd still be in the same position now in regards to incomings. I don't think it makes any difference. 

I was using Smallwood as an example but collectively all the deadwood who are out of contract will be costing us a lot of money between now and the end of June. Clearly Mulgrew (with 18 months left) would be the hardest to get rid of simply because of the numbers involved.

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Just now, tomphil said:

No way is he on the wages of a league 1 or 2 player he'll be on Championship wages. The fact he's never had a sniff after being a favourite might suggest he has a very good appearance bonus or something built in.

Also no takers for him despite his pedigree in the leagues below point to him being on good wages here.

As he's not even in the match day squad and probably won't play for us again his appearance bonus won't count for much tbf. 

Even if Smallwood is on upwards of 7-8k that's still a lot for a League 1 club, especially considering sign on/agent fees. I imagine most of them will be waiting until the summer when Smallwood is out of contract and his demands may be a lot lower. This contract will probably be the best he'll get for the rest of his career, so I imagine he'd want more to move now than he will in the summer. 

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