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Just now, iacok said:

I agree with your sentiments. However I feel myself edging to the Right. I think the media have gone too far with their largely uncritical liberal left wing views. 

The media leans the other way in my experience.

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Thought I would offer an insight into the School Meal Voucher scheme being used to provide vouchers to those parents and children that need it desperately.  The scheme is provided by Edenred a co

This sermon is brought to you by the Daily Mail. Victim-blaming repugnant nonsense. 

You need to completely change your perspective. Do you think they don’t realise how dangerous is?  They don’t have other options. Of course it’s dangerous but the alternative, for most, is l

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42 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why would I like Corbyn or his policies? I had a Conservative voter and always will be. Would I ever vote for Labour? No I wouldn't. I am not a swing voter. But the UK has rejected Corbyn twice in the last 2 elections so what did the British people not want Corbyn or his policies. What did you like so much about Corbyn and his policies then?

 

 

There was so, so much wrong with the post from the people also remembering the negative side (not taking leadership, PPE candle, care homes and testing to name a few) through to issues with Tory funding for NHS in real terms being something Scrooge McDuck would be ashamed of. However leaving aside such gaping holes in a not great PR piece the remaining part is the key issue. 

You are basically saying regardless of what the Torys do you will vote for them, regardless of what labour do, you won't. Basically you are admitting competence and policies are not a criteria you judge on. Now that seems rather daft because as you are not judging on merit it means a) it invalidates any promotion of the Tory party by yourself as you have admitted policy merit doesn't matter and b) you aren't voting on the basis of what is best for you or the country, which seems to defeat the object of voting! 

Then there's the huge morality issue with this. If you are saying you will vote for them whatever they do, you are giving them carte blanche to do whatever they want. I mean that's how politics gets into very murky water. It's how the government can get away with lying to the queen, unlawfully poroguing parliament, taking unaanctioned trips  in lockdown. It's the thin edge of the wedge and if they can get away with that now because people will vote for them regardless, then where does it end? And even if you think all that's ok the principle still stands that if you vote for someone regardless there is no moral safeguard. 

There's a big difference between a football team and a political party but it seems like you treat them the same, which is rather scary. 

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8 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

The media leans the other way in my experience.

Agree to differ. But at least a reasonable debate without totally extreme views either way. 

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37 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I know, the problem is on both sides i wasnt just aiming that at you. 

I'm a floating voter, I've voted for both tory and labour in the past. I think you should vote for the people most likely to do a good job. Or least bad job in some cases. 

And to add, I'm somewhere round the centre with some right leaning views and some left leaning views. I feel myself edging slowly more left. Capitalism with a conscience is the ideal for me. 

Thanks for the reply Dom. 

Can I ask you what are main issues that decide what way you vote? If you don't want to reply fair enough

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24 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

There was so, so much wrong with the post from the people also remembering the negative side (not taking leadership, PPE candle, care homes and testing to name a few) through to issues with Tory funding for NHS in real terms being something Scrooge McDuck would be ashamed of. However leaving aside such gaping holes in a not great PR piece the remaining part is the key issue. 

You are basically saying regardless of what the Torys do you will vote for them, regardless of what labour do, you won't. Basically you are admitting competence and policies are not a criteria you judge on. Now that seems rather daft because as you are not judging on merit it means a) it invalidates any promotion of the Tory party by yourself as you have admitted policy merit doesn't matter and b) you aren't voting on the basis of what is best for you or the country, which seems to defeat the object of voting! 

Then there's the huge morality issue with this. If you are saying you will vote for them whatever they do, you are giving them carte blanche to do whatever they want. I mean that's how politics gets into very murky water.

Yes some people will be remember the negative side you said but some people will remember the Government protect people incomes and their mortgages. 

I am not swing or floating voter like Millions of people around the country and some on this board who will vote for a political party every time. You know who they are Blueblood on this vote. 

Look at how much the government has guaranteed through the NHS Funding Bill. and they can be much if it is needed. The Spending on the NHS in 2019/20 was 123.7 billion pounds and by end of March 2024 we will be spending just below 148 and half billion pounds on the NHS.  

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48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for the reply Dom. 

Can I ask you what are main issues that decide what way you vote? If you don't want to reply fair enough

Depends on the issue at the time 2010 economy, 2015 cant remember 2016(?) would have been brexit. 2019 it was based purely on integrity and slimeyness. I couldn't bring myself to vote for  boris who time and again had lied and treated the public with utter contempt. 

I cant get my head round only voting for one party no matter what. It doesnt make sense. 

Are there no circumstances at all where you could see yourself voting for someone other than conservatives?

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19 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Out of curiosity, which liberal left wing views do you think are going uncriticised?

To quote a few recent examples:

If you watched the Brexit coverage on Sky, you'd have thought there wasn't a single person in the Country who was going to vote "leave". Thankfully from my point of view a slight majority weren't taken in and common sense prevailed (just) on that issue.

On the virus issue the media were incredibly hysterical about the pandemic and into getting everyone into the tightest possible lockdown. There wasn't criticism of the Government over the issue of a lock down per se but it wasn't backing of the Government's position, the criticism they weren't acting strongly enough. Then when it should have been time to get schools back and try and get the economy up and running the media sided with the Unions in giving the Government a hard time over the issue. A week later when the original plans had to be shelved they were then criticising the Government for not getting schools back quickly enough!

As the virus subsides and the media need a new Brexit/Pandemic the latest example is all the BLM stuff. The initial incident which set it off was of course appalling and will be dealt with accordingly in the Courts. However everyone on the media is falling over themselves to self flagellate and apologise because they are white or because of events which occurred hundreds of years ago which they are unable to place into historical context and insist on judging by the social mores of 2020. Comedy has now been officially outlawed as well it seems.

The TV and broadcasting  media is exceptionally left wing imo and has always tended that way but not as noticeably as in recent years. The printed media has always predominantly right wing. Hopefully there'll be a common sense rump of the populace who can continue to see through the rubbish emanating from all sides when it occurs.

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31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes some people will be remember the negative side you said but some people will remember the Government protect people incomes and their mortgages. 

My thoughts would be the negative well outweigh the positives. I posted that in the coronavirus thread a while back listing all the reasons I thought they were doing a bad job, with their dishonesty tipping the scales into a poor job imo. Incompetence is one thing, lack of integrity is another. I would say I'm amazed how this is overlooked at this but given you say you would vote for them regardless it doesn't seem surprising. 

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I am not swing or floating voter like Millions of people around the country and some on this board who will vote for a political party every time. You know who they are Blueblood on this vote. 

And I want to make it clear that anyone who does so out of loyalty, regardless of policies and politicians (ie who and what voting for) suffers the same problems that I outlined and imo is wrong. 

Chaddy I note you don't engage with any of my points on it. I mention issues of being unable to comment on policies as they don't matter to how you vote, how you aren't considering your own interests by looking who has the best policies, and the moral vaccume  this creates. Can you not see how voting in such a manner is self-defeating? 

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Look at how much the government has guaranteed through the NHS Funding Bill. and they can be much if it is needed. The Spending on the NHS in 2019/20 was 123.7 billion pounds and by end of March 2024 we will be spending just below 148 and half billion pounds on the NHS.  

Two things with this. 

1) You can't comment on policies. If they give billions or nothing to the NHS you will vote for them regardless so what they do is irrelevant. 

2).What someone says and what someone does are two different things. I could say I am going to play for Rovers and scored 50 goals a season and win us the treble. Doesn't mean it will happen though. And I would suggest there is a fair amount of evidence that this government cannot be trusted and that what they say is very different to what they do (PM sacked for lying from his job, easy Brexit deal, poroguing of parliament and the Cummings affair just of the top of my head.) Call me cynical but based on the evidence I just don't trust them. 

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10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The TV and broadcasting  media is exceptionally left wing imo and has always tended that way but not as noticeably as in recent years. T.

Really. 

The BBC's political correspondents - Neil, Robison, Kuennsberg - all have Conservative party connections.

The BBC's new director general is a former Tory councillor FFS. 

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47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Look at how much the government has guaranteed through the NHS Funding Bill. and they can be much if it is needed. The Spending on the NHS in 2019/20 was 123.7 billion pounds and by end of March 2024 we will be spending just below 148 and half billion pounds on the NHS.  

 The Tory party have underfunded the NHS for the past 10 years - as has been shown to you in graphs and analysis from reputable sources many times before.

Any extra spending they may or may not do in the next 4 years won't even scratch at the surface of the damage they've done.

 

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17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To quote a few recent examples:

If you watched the Brexit coverage on Sky, you'd have thought there wasn't a single person in the Country who was going to vote "leave". Thankfully from my point of view a slight majority weren't taken in and common sense prevailed (just) on that issue.

On the virus issue the media were incredibly hysterical about the pandemic and into getting everyone into the tightest possible lockdown. There wasn't criticism of the Government over the issue of a lock down per se but it wasn't backing of the Government's position, the criticism they weren't acting strongly enough. Then when it should have been time to get schools back and try and get the economy up and running the media sided with the Unions in giving the Government a hard time over the issue. A week later when the original plans had to be shelved they were then criticising the Government for not getting schools back quickly enough!

As the virus subsides and the media need a new Brexit/Pandemic the latest example is all the BLM stuff. The initial incident which set it off was of course appalling and will be dealt with accordingly in the Courts. However everyone on the media is falling over themselves to self flagellate and apologise because they are white or because of events which occurred hundreds of years ago which they are unable to place into historical context and insist on judging by the social mores of 2020. Comedy has now been officially outlawed as well it seems.

The TV and broadcasting  media is exceptionally left wing imo and has always tended that way but not as noticeably as in recent years. The printed media has always predominantly right wing. Hopefully there'll be a common sense rump of the populace who can continue to see through the rubbish emanating from all sides when it occurs.

I’ve not got Sky, so I can’t comment re that tbh. 
What I will say though, and this is as someone that voted remain, I felt that the campaign was conducted quite arrogantly as though there was no chance ‘leave’ would win. 
We will only see in the fullness of time whether ‘common sense’ did indeed prevail.

I know you’ve been playing devil’s advocate and gone completely against the grain with the virus from the start, so I’ll not bother entering into that debate, as we are polls apart. One thing I’m sure we both agree on though is that we want normality to return ASAP.

Compared to other countries like Italy and Spain, our lockdown has been fairly loose in comparison. I can’t speak for other countries as I don’t know enough about their lockdowns.

That was the issue though, previously, these issues weren’t dealt with seriously enough by the courts. Though I would also say that these events gained more traction and attention because people are bored and have nothing to focus on....

I can’t remember the last time I watched any TV news, but in terms of any bias, anyone with any brain power can see the way that an article or coverage is trying to steer you. The viewer or reader always has the power to switch off/log off or stop reading if they don’t like it. 

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14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To quote a few recent examples:

If you watched the Brexit coverage on Sky, you'd have thought there wasn't a single person in the Country who was going to vote "leave". Thankfully from my point of view a slight majority weren't taken in and common sense prevailed (just) on that issue.

On the virus issue the media were incredibly hysterical about the pandemic and into getting everyone into the tightest possible lockdown. There wasn't criticism of the Government over the issue of a lock down per se but it wasn't backing of the Government's position, the criticism they weren't acting strongly enough. Then when it should have been time to get schools back and try and get the economy up and running the media sided with the Unions in giving the Government a hard time over the issue. A week later when the original plans had to be shelved they were then criticising the Government for not getting schools back quickly enough!

As the virus subsides and the media need a new Brexit/Pandemic the latest example is all the BLM stuff. The initial incident which set it off was of course appalling and will be dealt with accordingly in the Courts. However everyone on the media is falling over themselves to self flagellate and apologise because they are white or because of events which occurred hundreds of years ago which they are unable to place into historical context and insist on judging by the social mores of 2020. Comedy has now been officially outlawed as well it seems.

The TV and broadcasting  media is exceptionally left wing imo and has always tended that way but not as noticeably as in recent years. The printed media has always predominantly right wing. Hopefully there'll be a common sense rump of the populace who can continue to see through the rubbish emanating from all sides when it occurs.

Thank goodness we've got you who can clearly see the way forward and knows better than everyone else! Another crackers post from you. 

I'll be honest i'm not an expert on all.(or many) areas and have yet to see a convIncing argument for not locking down (either based on science advice or practicalities). I do know a fair bit about education and the government's handling of it has been poor. A ton of things from not consulting or communicating with unions and teaches enough, through to which year groups they will send back, through to lack of PPE for teachers and issues with the bubbles. There were a host of issues. Had they consulted and communicated with schools more or addressed some of these concerns then schools may have gone back sooner. As it was they persisted with their plans until the last minute when they had to withdraw it and delay schools opening because they realised they were wrong. 

One example, trying to keep comfidentiality, is a school that came up with a plan which they thought was in line with the guidance (and from what I can tell of the plan was) but a week before opening were told that wasn't allowed. The government really dropped the ball on that one so not sure of why you think it's double standards.

Whilst there may be points of debate in what you raise - I think there are - it all seems a bit sweeping and Rev knows best and is most balanced. On a number of issues I know a bit about I think perhaps that's not the case. 

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16 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Thank goodness we've got you who can clearly see the way forward and knows better than everyone else! Another crackers post from you. 

It's an opinion. The hysterical nature of your reply illustrates my point perfectly.

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37 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Depends on the issue at the time 2010 economy, 2015 cant remember 2016(?) would have been brexit. 2019 it was based purely on integrity and slimeyness. I couldn't bring myself to vote for  boris who time and again had lied and treated the public with utter contempt. 

I cant get my head round only voting for one party no matter what. It doesnt make sense. 

Are there no circumstances at all where you could see yourself voting for someone other than conservatives?

Thanks for the reply. 

I don't think you can never but I would say very unlikely 

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4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for the reply. 

I don't think you can never but I would say very unlikely 

Do you not see this has a self-defeating point? If they know you have unconditional loyalty what incentive is there to implement policies which are within your interests? Surely a government who knows they could be voted out is going to work its butt off to win votes? 

If my boss told me there was no chance I'd ever get the sack, do you think I'm going to give 110%? Or do the bare minimum and go home? 

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50 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Chaddy I note you don't engage with any of my points on it. I mention issues of being unable to comment on policies as they don't matter to how you vote, how you aren't considering your own interests by looking who has the best policies, and the moral vaccume  this creates. Can you not see how voting in such a manner is self-defeating? 

Millions after millions people vote for party regarding of policies. Like I said before I aint a swing voter. Just like many other members on this forum. I would vote Conservatives and it would take something for make me not. I don't know how many times I need to say this

 

50 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Two things with this. 

1) You can't comment on policies. If they give billions or nothing to the NHS you will vote for them regardless so what they do is irrelevant. 

2).What someone says and what someone does are two different things.

The NHS Funding Bill was a big policy for PM Johnson and in the Conservatives manifesto. The funding is law of the land now. Just like Immigration points based Australia system which I have wanted for many years coming in shortly as law. 2 big polices for the Conservative party

 

 

 

Edited by chaddyrovers
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3 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Do you not see this has a self-defeating point? If they know you have unconditional loyalty what incentive is there to implement policies which are within your interests? Surely a government who knows they could be voted out is going to work its butt off to win votes? 

If my boss told me there was no chance I'd ever get the sack, do you think I'm going to give 110%? Or do the bare minimum and go home? 

No I don't. Cos different people have different political viewers. Someone like Gav will Vote Labour regardless of policies like myself who will vote Conservative. 

I would still 110% regardless for my own self pride. Other people will be very different 

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22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No I don't. Cos different people have different political viewers. Someone like Gav will Vote Labour regardless of policies like myself who will vote Conservative. 

I would still 110% regardless for my own self pride. Other people will be very different 

And people who vote labour regardless are also part of the problem. 

If you vote for one party regardless, what is the point in reading the news / keeping up with politics or taking part in political debate? 

 

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I am not swing or floating voter like Millions of people around the country and some on this board who will vote for a political party every time. You know who they are Blueblood on this vote. 

 

If w had plural voting I would vote Green. FPTP smothers British politics.

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26 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

what is the point in reading the news / keeping up with politics or taking part in political debate? 

I have a massive interest in politics. I enjoy watching the commons and watching some of the committee hearings. 

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6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's an opinion. The hysterical nature of your reply illustrates my point perfectly.

The fact you omitted the rest of his post highlights his point perfectly.

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5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have a massive interest in politics. I enjoy watching the commons and watching some of the committee hearings. 

If you rigidly vote for one party above others regardless of word and deed, you have no interest in politics whatsoever.

That being said, by the wider nature of your posts in general, I suspect that one day in the distant future you'll vote for someone else and claim you never voted Conservative in your life.

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It has been clear for many years that the United States is a house divided. But since March, when the coronavirus pandemic shut down much of the country, that division has taken on a ghastly new face. Staggering death tolls and nightmarish images of body bags, overwhelmed hospitals, and freezer morgues have stirred little sense of unity or common purpose. Instead, they seem to have simply fed an already raging case of partisan polarisation—another virus for which there is as yet no treatment or vaccine. It has become difficult to ask even the most basic questions—whether a certain medicine works, whether a city has enough ventilators and protective equipment—without triggering a political brawl, usually revolving around President Donald Trump. 

Two recent books, Ezra Klein’s left-leaning Why We’re Polarized and Michael Lind’s right-leaning The New Class War, attempt to explain how things got to this point.

What both authors describe is a country in which Americans’ political identities have become “mega-identities.” The labels “Democrat” and “Republican” increasingly subsume other sources of identity, including race, religion, and geography, and are highly predictive not only of where people stand on abortion or immigration but also of where they shop, what sports they like, what news they watch, and so on. These political mega-identities are “far more powerful than issue positions in driving polarisation,” Klein writes. In fact, “there’s only a weak relationship between how much a person identifies as a conservative or liberal and how conservative or liberal their views actually are—to be exact, in both cases it’s about a .25 correlation.” In the United States, partisan identity has become central to “psychological self-expression” and is now the country’s most intense social cleavage, even more intense than race.

In a 2015 experiment by the political scientists Shanto Iyengar and Sean Westwood, who asked about 1,000 people to review the résumés of two fictional high school seniors competing for a scholarship and to pick one as the winner. Political affiliation contributed far more selection bias than religion, race or sexuality.

This is a reality in the UK also as this thread shows. Take away Brexit and I bet the .25 correlation applies here too. 

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