Jump to content

BRFCS

BY THE FANS, FOR THE FANS
SINCE 1996
Proudly partnered with TheTerraceStore.com

Politics


Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Whitty and Vallance was right about the 1st lockdown and they advice is valid and necessary now. But even Whitty said last week you have balance Health and the economy in his press conference with PM Johnson and Chancellor Sunak. But people financial situation will be massive problem if we have another major lockdown. People wages, jobs, businesses closing down for ever, mortgages. Whilst you have to protect the elderly and most vulnerable people in society in this health pandemic. It's a fine balancing act. 

Furlough protected alot of jobs as it was designed too. But there has been companies who have to make redundancies due to sales of their manufacturing products isnt there anymore after government advice for office staff to work from home for example. My old company I used to work has cut it work force by 20%(around 300 redundancies in total over the furlough period on 2 different occasions), merge departments and jobs roles, etc. People still have mortgages, bills to pay and family/household at the end of the day. Some people who I have work with there have found better jobs and some are struggling to find work right now

Good to see you backing Labour mayor Andy Burnham over Johnson who wants to lockdown more regions, although it is a rather stark change from your following the science line. As for the financial situation, it too late to worry about that Johnson has already wrecked the economy through his shambolic handling of the virus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Whitty and Vallance was right about the 1st lockdown and they advice is valid and necessary now. But even Whitty said last week you have balance Health and the economy in his press conference with PM Johnson and Chancellor Sunak. But people financial situation will be massive problem if we have another major lockdown. People wages, jobs, businesses closing down for ever, mortgages. Whilst you have to protect the elderly and most vulnerable people in society in this health pandemic. It's a fine balancing act. 

Furlough protected alot of jobs as it was designed too. But there has been companies who have to make redundancies due to sales of their manufacturing products isnt there anymore after government advice for office staff to work from home for example. My old company I used to work has cut it work force by 20%(around 300 redundancies in total over the furlough period on 2 different occasions), merge departments and jobs roles, etc. People still have mortgages, bills to pay and family/household at the end of the day. Some people who I have work with there have found better jobs and some are struggling to find work right now

Spin! Whitty's advice was ignored FULL STOP! When he advised what Johnson wanted, he could do no wrong in your eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Whitty and Vallance was right about the 1st lockdown and they advice is valid and necessary now. But even Whitty said last week you have balance Health and the economy in his press conference with PM Johnson and Chancellor Sunak. But people financial situation will be massive problem if we have another major lockdown. People wages, jobs, businesses closing down for ever, mortgages. Whilst you have to protect the elderly and most vulnerable people in society in this health pandemic. It's a fine balancing act. 

Furlough protected alot of jobs as it was designed too. But there has been companies who have to make redundancies due to sales of their manufacturing products isnt there anymore after government advice for office staff to work from home for example. My old company I used to work has cut it work force by 20%(around 300 redundancies in total over the furlough period on 2 different occasions), merge departments and jobs roles, etc. People still have mortgages, bills to pay and family/household at the end of the day. Some people who I have work with there have found better jobs and some are struggling to find work right now

We all know what’s happened.

Thing is you backed absolutely everything Johnson did and your justification for backing him was always because he was following the science. Now all of a sudden, it doesn’t matter what the science says any more, it only matter what Johnson says. 
 

I await Johnsons next U turn followed by yourself.
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Whitty and Vallance was right about the 1st lockdown and they advice is valid and necessary now. But even Whitty said last week you have balance Health and the economy in his press conference with PM Johnson and Chancellor Sunak. But people financial situation will be massive problem if we have another major lockdown. People wages, jobs, businesses closing down for ever, mortgages. Whilst you have to protect the elderly and most vulnerable people in society in this health pandemic. It's a fine balancing act. 

 

Mate, you are tying yourselves in knots here. You are using one thing Whitty said about a balancing act as validation of the current situation (ie Wittys opinion counts in this case) at the same time ignoring/invalidating anything else he says at the same time regarding measures not going far enough (his opinion doesn't count here)! How does that work?

I don't expect you will answer that!

Also it's very manipulative saying that Witty is ok with these measures the government are doing because he acknowledged it was difficult to balance. Saying it is a difficult situation to get right/balance is NOT the same as endorsing their position. 

And that's before all your we have to follow the science posts from start of lockdown. That was your defence all the time. That was the overruling factor and now it isn't. That's a complete U turn. The economic cost was huge then so it's not like it's anything new on that point. 

Do you see how much you contradict yourself? Do you see how hypocritical you appear? Is there any self awareness that it looks a little bit stupid going a full 180 on an issue just because the government does? There's not even an acknowledgment that you might have been wrong or that it's awkward to change position so dramatically! 

I suppose I am in part so irritated by it because the government is no different. Our deal is great, no it's rubbish; follow the science, stuff the science. Opportunistic chancers the lot of them. Hypocrites with no moral compass. And not a shred of the embarassment or a tiny acknowledgement of their U turning, hypocrisy or mistakes. 

And you going along with it giving them unconditional support allows them to do whatever they like. In this case it endangers lives but Chaddy I've asked before and had no answer. When does this support end? 

When the Tory Youth atrack political opponents?

When human rights are abolished? 

When various groups are carted off to camps? 

How far does unconditional support go, because if it has no limits this is where it heads to. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, den said:

We all know what’s happened.

Thing is you backed absolutely everything Johnson did and your justification for backing him was always because he was following the science. Now all of a sudden, it doesn’t matter what the science says any more, it only matter what Johnson says. 
 

I await Johnsons next U turn followed by yourself.
 

 

And why wouldn't you trust Johnson over the scientists? Just because he doesn't know the rules, has a history of lying (including an unfortunate suspension of parliament incident), makes up facts when questioned, has overseen a government that has made a spectacular botch of test and trace and PPE, a government that doesn't like its own negotiated and agreed Brexit deal and is currently overseeing the breaking of international law? What evidence is there on grounds of competence or integrity is there that makes you think the scientists are a better bet than Johnson? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Of course the science matters but so does the economy and people's jobs, mortgages, etc. 

 

 

The science doesn’t matter to you any more Chaddy, you’ve just abandoned it - and those scientists you supported -in your pursuit of following Johnson. 
 

you believed 100% that Johnson should follow the scientific advice of Chris Whitty, now you don’t. If Johnson hadn’t have changed his mind, you wouldn’t have done either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, den said:

The science doesn’t matter to you any more Chaddy, you’ve just abandoned it - and those scientists you supported -in your pursuit of following Johnson. 
 

you believed 100% that Johnson should follow the scientific advice of Chris Whitty, now you don’t. If Johnson hadn’t have changed his mind, you wouldn’t have done either. 

Didnt I just said the science does matter but so does the economy, people jobs, businesses, mortgages. Clearly arent bother about the economy, jobs, businesses surviving and protect people mortgages. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you been furlough for 24 weeks and made redundant. I know people who have and havent found new jobs after being made redundant 12 weeks ago

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course people are bothered about the economy but they're more bothered about staying alive and knowing other people are going to stay alive first. Economies can be rebuilt but the dead can't be brought back. I worry about my family losing their jobs but to need a job they've got to be there

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didnt I just said the science does matter but so does the economy, people jobs, businesses, mortgages. Clearly arent bother about the economy, jobs, businesses surviving and protect people mortgages. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you been furlough for 24 weeks and made redundant. I know people who have and havent found new jobs after being made redundant 12 weeks ago

If you're wrong, endlessly saying the same thing does not change it. Just shows you are stubbornly wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didnt I just said the science does matter but so does the economy, people jobs, businesses, mortgages. Clearly arent bother about the economy, jobs, businesses surviving and protect people mortgages. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you been furlough for 24 weeks and made redundant. I know people who have and havent found new jobs after being made redundant 12 weeks ago

You must admit then that the government have truly screwed up.  

One of the highest death rates in the world AND mass unemployment (including yourself), businesses closed down, industries decimated. 

You'd have thought it would be one or the other, not both....

How on earth can you defend the government.?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just seen some very interesting research work.

In effect the Imperial College paper which projected 500,000 UK deaths if no action were taken has been validated.

In part the reason why the UK is not currently heading for half a million people dying from coronavirus is because of two factors:

- Government action/coercion

-AND the change of behaviour of the majority of the population which is responsible for at least 50% of the lives saved.

That change in behaviour is largely reflected in economic activity- not buying petrol, not shopping as much, not going out like we used to irrespective of whether there were Government restrictions.

In short, if you want a healthy economy, you have to have a healthy unfrightened population.

So its codswallop to argue that lock down endangers jobs and mortgages. In a short period of time it saves them.

 

A classic example was here in Malta. The tourism industry lobbied and pressurised for all restrictions to be lifted early. Government gave in at the end of June. By August, the virus was out of control to the extent Malta went on other countries' amber and red lists. The tourist industry lost its August peak season and ended up much worse off than if it had kept its collective trap shut. Moreover the general public are telling them to get stuffed now they are asking Government for economic help to survive the winter.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Only by employing an actual Zero Covid strategy with a fully functioning track-trace system can you fully open the economy.

That's been proven.

That's the crux Mike, £12 billion spent and nothing to show for it. We went out for a meal a fortnite ago, both checked in using the app and were made aware by the owner that one girl who was present at the same time (sat well away from us) tested positive the next day and notified the authorities accordingly. We know via the owner that 5 other people present have since tested positive (including the owner). All this information has been communicated to NHS track and trace but we've heard zilch from them. We're both fine but that's not the point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didnt I just said the science does matter but so does the economy, people jobs, businesses, mortgages. Clearly arent bother about the economy, jobs, businesses surviving and protect people mortgages. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you been furlough for 24 weeks and made redundant. I know people who have and havent found new jobs after being made redundant 12 weeks ago

Just to point out another of your contradictions (although I am confident I am on ignore) you said before and in another post from the same day that there are plenty of jobs going. 

You mentioned how many jobs were going in defence of the government saying stuff you to the arts. 

Which leaves me with the question @chaddyrovers Are there so few jobs that it motivates us to open up the economy, why is it ok to not give enough aid to the arts sector? Or if there are plenty enough jobs to ignore the arts sector, why should we be ignoring the science? You can't have it both ways. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will come as no surprise to anyone except maybe Chaddy. But just another example of the type of man that Johnson is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8849045/Jennifer-Arcuri-Yes-DID-affair-Boris-jester-romance.html

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Of course the science matters but so does the economy and people's jobs, mortgages, etc. 

Johnson has failed in every aspect he has failed to saves lives, he has failed to protect the economy and he has failed to save jobs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

It will come as no surprise to anyone except maybe Chaddy. But just another example of the type of man that Johnson is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8849045/Jennifer-Arcuri-Yes-DID-affair-Boris-jester-romance.html

Johnson has failed in every aspect he has failed to saves lives, he has failed to protect the economy and he has failed to save jobs. 

To be fair, it has been almost mission impossible and there haven't been half a million deaths as was the prediction. I'm not saying for a minute they've got everything right, far from it but some people's attitudes towards the virus are mainly to blame for the current upsurge in cases.

For me the big mistake has just been the constant chucking of £billions at the problem as if that is all it takes. The amount thrown at track and trace is staggering and whoever is responsible for it's failing should be hung drawn and quartered. Surely it would have been better and more cost effective to throw some money at the likes of Google to come up with a working app and the necessary support structure rather than some no-marks. Payment on the basis of so much up front and a figure to support the working model on a consistent basis.

This and the throwing of more £ hundreds of millions blindly at other basically shell companies to supply PPE, is what astounds me. It simply staggers belief and a public enquiry should be held regarding this hap hazard distribution of public funds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, darrenrover said:

To be fair, it has been almost mission impossible and there haven't been half a million deaths as was the prediction. I'm not saying for a minute they've got everything right, far from it but some people's attitudes towards the virus are mainly to blame for the current upsurge in cases.

Spot on, couldn't agree more.

We live in a country with a significant number of selfish bastards, they're given license to adopt a 'me me me approach' by a government that can't get the simplest of messaging across.

Its going to be tough winter, this could have been avoided. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's putting it mildly. 

 

This govt is awful. Strict lockdown was totally wasted. They've siphoned off dough left right and centre, there's no coherent exit strategy, and Brexit yet to come. 

 

It's a state of national emergency and there should be a vote of no confidence in this govt. If they're left to carry on for another 4 years, I dread to think where the country will be then

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Worth pointing out, Labour had a AAA rating.

Tories have reduced it to AA3.

Each reduction in credit rating edges up the interest rate Britain pays on its debt.

 

This really is remarkable. A credit rating agency, Moody's, citing "weakening" of British democracy as factor in yesterday's UK downgrade https://ft.com/content/117349e4-dc95-4509-969b-26dcdede1773 And what does UK government intend to do about this? Well, Tories floated idea of abolishing Electoral Commission...
 
 
Image
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is apparently a serious story in London's free paper this morning>

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/18/boris-to-resign-in-spring-because-his-150000-salary-is-too-low-13441960/

One MP said Johnson was concerned about raising his six children and sending his youngest son, Wilfred, to Eton, which costs £42,500 a year.  ‘Boris has at least six children, some young enough to need financial help,’ the MP reportedly said. ‘And he had to pay ex-wife Marina Wheeler a shedload as part of their divorce deal.’

Another MP called Johnson, who had long pursued his dream of becoming prime minister, a ‘typical adulterer’ who was ‘more interested in the chase than the prize’.  No 10 denied the claims to Metro.co.uk but declined to comment further. Government officials and former prime ministers can make a great amount of money by giving speeches and making appearances at engagements.  MPs believe Johnson is envious of his predecessors, with Theresa May earning more than £1 million on the lecture circuit since resigning last year.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, philipl said:

This is apparently a serious story in London's free paper this morning>

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/18/boris-to-resign-in-spring-because-his-150000-salary-is-too-low-13441960/

One MP said Johnson was concerned about raising his six children and sending his youngest son, Wilfred, to Eton, which costs £42,500 a year.  ‘Boris has at least six children, some young enough to need financial help,’ the MP reportedly said. ‘And he had to pay ex-wife Marina Wheeler a shedload as part of their divorce deal.’

Another MP called Johnson, who had long pursued his dream of becoming prime minister, a ‘typical adulterer’ who was ‘more interested in the chase than the prize’.  No 10 denied the claims to Metro.co.uk but declined to comment further. Government officials and former prime ministers can make a great amount of money by giving speeches and making appearances at engagements.  MPs believe Johnson is envious of his predecessors, with Theresa May earning more than £1 million on the lecture circuit since resigning last year.

 

 

I'd only pay to hear Teresa May speak if I was having trouble sleeping. I've long thought that Johnson was more interested in what being PM brought him than actually putting a real shift in. It's obviously turned out not to be the job he imagined it would be. I've absolutely no sympathy, he's a shyster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.