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36 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

" Private Eye " is very good this week. I'm just reading a long list of Johnson's cronies, back slappers and arse lickers who've turned on him recently -

" The Daily Mail "

" The Sun "

Trevor Kavanagh " ( alleged to be The Sun's leader writer ).

Allison Pearson ( Daily Telegraph and foremost Johnson groupie ).

Peter Oborne  ( long time Tory apologist ).

Toby Young ( long time pal of Johnson's and right wing nut case )

It's not looking good for the flop haired fool is it ?

Johnson was always a means to an end for the Tories.

He was the best candidate to beat Corbyn (who they were petrified of) and in the Brexit election he was popular with Brexit voters and chimed with their slogan to Get Brexit Done.

He also appealed to voters in the north who don't mind bowing and scraping to public schoolboys with posh southern accents. Johnson is the man who brought down the Red Wall.

The Tories will stick with him as long as he is ahead in the polls and looks likely to win the next election.

If he doesn't, they'll ditch him. For them, it's all about staying in power. They're ruthless. 

 

 

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Which every party should be Jim.

If the Labour Party had a set of bollocks they'd have realised Corbyn was never going to win with the electorate, but instead pandered to the Urbanite champagne socialists that now live in areas like Moss Side, Brixton and so fourth because slumming it is cool for the trust-fund sponsored bohemian Corbynites. 

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3 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Which every party should be Jim.

If the Labour Party had a set of bollocks they'd have realised Corbyn was never going to win with the electorate, but instead pandered to the Urbanite champagne socialists that now live in areas like Moss Side, Brixton and so fourth because slumming it is cool for the trust-fund sponsored bohemian Corbynites. 

I voted for Labour and Corbyn  and I don't fit that description in any way, neither does my wife. It doesn't apply to anybody I know in the Rochdale Labour Party either.

 

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10 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Johnson was always a means to an end for the Tories.

He was the best candidate to beat Corbyn (who they were petrified of) and in the Brexit election he was popular with Brexit voters and chimed with their slogan to Get Brexit Done.

He also appealed to voters in the north who don't mind bowing and scraping to public schoolboys with posh southern accents. Johnson is the man who brought down the Red Wall.

The Tories will stick with him as long as he is ahead in the polls and looks likely to win the next election.

If he doesn't, they'll ditch him. For them, it's all about staying in power. They're ruthless. 

 

 

I'd be surprised that Johnson is still PM when the next election comes around, he's already being seen as a liability.

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58 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

" Private Eye " is very good this week. I'm just reading a long list of Johnson's cronies, back slappers and arse lickers who've turned on him recently -

" The Daily Mail "

" The Sun "

Trevor Kavanagh " ( alleged to be The Sun's leader writer ).

Allison Pearson ( Daily Telegraph and foremost Johnson groupie ).

Peter Oborne  ( long time Tory apologist ).

Toby Young ( long time pal of Johnson's and right wing nut case )

It's not looking good for the flop haired fool is it ?

Very harsh on Peter Oborne he is by far this countries best Conservative writer and is far from a Tory apologist. 

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'd be surprised that Johnson is still PM when the next election comes around, he's already being seen as a liability.

I'll be surprised too but things change. If the government get on top of the virus and Brexit gets "done" (however badly) Johnson will hail it as down to his great leadership. Don't underestimate the gullibility of the great British public

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5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I voted for Labour and Corbyn  and I don't fit that description in any way, neither does my wife. It doesn't apply to anybody I know in the Rochdale Labour Party either.

 

Well, if you, your wife or the Rochdale Labour Party were representative of the entire UK electorate I'd see fit to amend what I said. As it happens you aren't, Labour took an absolute pounding in areas that I thought weren't even possible to see Tory Blue, so I'm pretty safe in my assumption the direction the Momentum-sponsored Labour under Corbyn went was entirely in the opposite way to the remainder of the UK.

I think the results speak for themselves on that. Putney gained by Labour, Lancashire lost. Who do you think Corbyn attracted? The working class? ?

 

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Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Well, if you, your wife or the Rochdale Labour Party were representative of the entire UK electorate I'd see fit to amend what I said. As it happens you aren't, Labour took an absolute pounding in areas that I thought weren't even possible to see Tory Blue, so I'm pretty safe in my assumption the direction the Momentum-sponsored Labour under Corbyn went was entirely in the opposite way to the remainder of the UK.

I think the results speak for themselves on that. Putney gained by Labour, Lancashire lost. Who do you think Corbyn attracted? The working class? ?

 

A significant section of the " working class " fell for the " Get Brexit Done " three card trick. There wasn't much to be done about that. They'll live to learn the error of their ways. We're still Labour in bohemian, champagne swilling Rochdale by the way. In fact I've just sent Mrs Shoelaces out to get some caviar for my toast.

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12 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Well, if you, your wife or the Rochdale Labour Party were representative of the entire UK electorate I'd see fit to amend what I said. As it happens you aren't, Labour took an absolute pounding in areas that I thought weren't even possible to see Tory Blue, so I'm pretty safe in my assumption the direction the Momentum-sponsored Labour under Corbyn went was entirely in the opposite way to the remainder of the UK.

I think the results speak for themselves on that. Putney gained by Labour, Lancashire lost. Who do you think Corbyn attracted? The working class? ?

 

In 2017 Corbyn got nearly 13 Million votes and won 40% of the vote. What changed and cost Labour seats that it has traditionally held was it's disastrous shift in position on Brexit. And of course that disastrous policy was created and championed by Keir Starmer. That was Corbyn's biggest weakness as a leader is that he was weak and failed to stand up to his enemies in his own party who he tried to compromise with but they weren't interested in compromise they just wanted him out. Whatever criticisms I have of Johnson he immediately got his enemies out of his party and come the election had a united party, although with everything we have seen since I would imagine that was more Cummings' doing than Johnson's. But whoever did it, it was the sensible move.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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9 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

In 2017 Corbyn got nearly 13 Million votes and won 40% of the vote. What changed and cost Labour seats that it has traditionally held was it's disastrous shift in position on Brexit. And of course that disastrous policy was created and championed by Keir Starmer. That was Corbyn's biggest weakness as a leader is that he was weak and failed to stand up to his enemies in his own party who he tried to compromise with but they weren't interested in compromise they just wanted him out. Whatever criticisms I have of Johnson he immediately got his enemies out of his party and come the election had a united party, although with everything we have seen since I would imagine that was more Cummings' doing than Johnson's. But whoever did it, it was the sensible move.

Tories have their warring factions and there's many MPs who hate Johnson and would like him ousted but if there were an election tomorrow they would all unite in a common cause .

Labour fight among themselves too but the difference is the right and left of the party dislike each other even more than they hate the Tories! I disagree that Corbyn's enemies in the party caused his 2019 defeat ..... you only had to hear people in the clubs and pubs up and down the country to know they had made up their mind about him.

The point is, the Tories understand power. They're an election winning machine and Labour need to be ruthless like them if they're ever to get back into No 10. Starmer could start by expelling Corbyn from the party. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Starmer could start by expelling Corbyn from the party. 

That would be the perfect way of showing the country that Socialism isn't welcome in the Labour Party (but let's be honest most genuine Socialists knew that anyway) and that Labour under Starmer are simply Tory lite. We had 13 years of Labour in government being Tory lite and it was a disaster for the nation and the world. The two Labour PM's who have been good for the country were Wilson and Atlee both of whom were on the left of the party, the other 4 McDonald, Callaghan, Blair and Brown were terrible.

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Just now, Ewood Ace said:

That would be the perfect way of showing the country that Socialism isn't welcome in the Labour Party (but let's be honest most genuine Socialists knew that anyway) and that Labour under Starmer are simply Tory lite. We had 13 years of Labour in government being Tory lite and it was a disaster for the nation and the world. The two Labour PM's who have been good for the country were Wilson and Atlee both of whom were on the left of the party, the other 4 McDonald, Callaghan, Blair and Brown were terrible.

Starmer is a socialist, though not as left wing as Corbyn. Tony Blair won 3 elections and under him New Labour's public reform agenda transformed the country - policies that Tories would never have countered. They were not "Tory lite".

You've a choice to make. Get behind Starmer or hand victory to the Tories in 2024. 

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51 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Tories have their warring factions and there's many MPs who hate Johnson and would like him ousted but if there were an election tomorrow they would all unite in a common cause .

Labour fight among themselves too but the difference is the right and left of the party dislike each other even more than they hate the Tories! I disagree that Corbyn's enemies in the party caused his 2019 defeat ..... you only had to hear people in the clubs and pubs up and down the country to know they had made up their mind about him.

The point is, the Tories understand power. They're an election winning machine and Labour need to be ruthless like them if they're ever to get back into No 10. Starmer could start by expelling Corbyn from the party. 

 

 

I've voted Labour at every election, that's every General Election , Parliamentary By Election and Council Election since 1970 Jim,  but if they start expelling the socialists in the party that'd be me finished with the Labour Party. I'd either not vote or vote for the Greens.

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32 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Starmer is a socialist, though not as left wing as Corbyn. Tony Blair won 3 elections and under him New Labour's public reform agenda transformed the country - policies that Tories would never have countered. They were not "Tory lite".

You've a choice to make. Get behind Starmer or hand victory to the Tories in 2024. 

Start expelling the socialists and the choice no longer exists for me. It's the Blue Tories or the Red Tories ? Not much of a choice at all.

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35 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Starmer is a socialist

Are you trying to convince me or yourself off this? Starmer is an opportunist who stands for and believes in nothing (much like Johnson actually) and doesn't have any socialist ideals.

35 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Tony Blair won 3 elections and under him New Labour's public reform agenda transformed the country - policies that Tories would never have countered. They were not "Tory lite".

Even the old witch herself said that her greatest achievement was Blair and New Labour. And it was 9 years of disaster from them (the first 4 years they did some good things) that has played a big role in Tories winning 4 successive elections, particularly how Labour handled of the economy. You'd think that shouldn't be a problem at the next election given the dire straights the Tories have put the economy in but Starmer is strangely very quiet on the economy.

The Labour Party brand is also still badly tainted by the lies that were told over Iraq that led to the deaths of over 1 million people.

35 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 You've a choice to make. Get behind Starmer or hand victory to the Tories in 2024. 

That's no choice it's like choosing between tweedledum and tweedledee. This country needs and deserves better than both of them. 

Edited by Ewood Ace
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43 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

That would be the perfect way of showing the country that Socialism isn't welcome in the Labour Party (but let's be honest most genuine Socialists knew that anyway) and that Labour under Starmer are simply Tory lite. We had 13 years of Labour in government being Tory lite and it was a disaster for the nation and the world. The two Labour PM's who have been good for the country were Wilson and Atlee both of whom were on the left of the party, the other 4 McDonald, Callaghan, Blair and Brown were terrible.

Three elections with two of them landslides. The public didn’t think he was a disaster at all.

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Starmer seems to be a bright man who can analyse a situation, and isn't so driven by ideology that a pragmatic solution is rejected out of hand because it doesn't fit. Corbyn had no guile, no awareness that sometimes you have to tone down your politics and play the game to achieve power. The Momentum cult also damaged Labour's chances by trying to hound out anyone who wasn't one of them, in an effort to achieve 'ideological purity'. 

I would rather Starmer be PM even if he is another Tony Blair type than the bumbling, useless, crass, stupid, corrupt, arrogant and disgusting shower of vermin we have in government now.

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9 minutes ago, den said:

Three elections with two of them landslides. The public didn’t think he was a disaster at all.

As I said the first 4 years they did do some good things. But from their second term on they were a disaster and Labour haemorrhaged votes in the next 3 elections until 2017 when Corbyn was leader. Corbyn didn't change much in 2019 but sadly he did change his position on Brexit and a 2nd referendum moving to a position that of the likes of Blair and Campbell and been supporting for years and that resulted in a crushing defeat. 

Edited by Ewood Ace
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10 minutes ago, den said:

Three elections with two of them landslides. The public didn’t think he was a disaster at all.

Well they'd obviously had enough of the Blairite Labour Party and Blairite policies by 2010. He had a once in a lifetime opportunity to make this country a more forward looking better place to live in and he blew it big time.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Are you trying to convince me or yourself off this? Starmer is an opportunist who stands for and believes in nothing (much like Johnson actually) and doesn't have any socialist ideals.

Even the old witch herself said that her greatest achievement was Blair and New Labour. And it was 9 years of disaster from them (the first 4 years they did some good things) that has played a big role in Tories winning 4 successive elections, particularly how Labour handled of the economy. You'd think that shouldn't be a problem at the next election given the dire straights the Tories have put the economy in but Starmer is strangely very quiet on the economy.

 The Labour Party brand is also still badly tainted by the lies that were told over Iraq that led to the deaths of over 1 million people.

That's no choice it's like choosing between tweedledum and tweedledee. This country needs and deserves better than both of them. 

Was it Labour's fault for the 2008 global financial collapse? I think not.

I don't know how you can try and criticise how New Labour handled the economy when you voted for a bloke that undoubtedly would have made this sacred economy worse off. Yes, it may have been for the better of the people, but you can't have it both ways. Which is it - are you socialist and agree with looser government spending or do you value the health of the FTSE 100 index?

I'd say Momentum have done far more damage to the Labour Party brand than the Iraq war. In truth, when you speak to Red Wall voters, they don't care about the Iraq war anymore. They care about people like Ash Sarkar going on national TV and spouting anti-capitalist rhetoric, and what they call a "politically correct" driven movement to rid the country of its national identity.

Starmer was a leader of the East Surrey Socialists. I think that tells you what he classes himself as. 

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22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Well they'd obviously had enough of the Blairite Labour Party and Blairite policies by 2010. He had a once in a lifetime opportunity to make this country a more forward looking better place to live in and he blew it big time.

13 years TS.
 

They all lose eventually.

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