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25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some very good tribute speeches in the House of Commons by PM Johnson,.Speaker Hoyle, Starmer, Bottomley, Blackford, May to Prince Philip this afternoon. 

Let's hope they are all as generous when they eulogise Shirley Williams.

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Corrupt Tory government announces inquiry into Tory corruption

https://www.ft.com/content/ade87a61-b1e1-433a-a79f-25fc6b9a0aaf

Everyone know how this will play out ......... 2 years down the line Tory government announces there was no corruption.

They'll clear themselves of this as cheerfully as they concluded they weren't racist (Windrush, what Windrush?) 
 

Edited by jim mk2
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There are some brilliant journalists in the US.

Even though the FT and Sunday Times have done an excellent job on the Greensill / Cameron / Sunak corruption, you rarely see this sort of investigative work in a British newspaper.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.html

The New York Times analyzed a large segment of it, the roughly 1,200 central government contracts that have been made public, together worth nearly $22 billion. Of that, about $11 billion went to companies either run by friends and associates of politicians in the Conservative Party, or with no prior experience or a history of controversy. Meanwhile, smaller firms without political clout got nowhere.

It's a great read and a national UK scandal

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Laura Kuensburg on the parameters of the proposed Tory lobbying review because of the Cameron farce....

“here's the official announcement.

Review doesn't have any legal powers, and not expected to come up with recommendations for tightening up the system.

If anyone was expecting a chunky review that would come up with a much tougher regime, think again

But the review allows ministers who might be asked tricky questions about what they knew to say, 'ah this is all being looked at'”.

............

does it surprise anyone? This government are self serving, corrupt liars.

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11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say over the 10 years Tyrone, plenty of Voters know what they want. They want Conservative Party policies and their candidates to serve them in Parliament. 

You have lost Labour heartlands and the North seats over the last 10 years. So until Labour Party leadership is willing to listen, understand and develop policies that these voters wanted. Why have you lost so many Working class voters over the years?

I just told you---because the Labour Party isn't racist or nationalistic enough for them. But you just keep repeating the same thing like a mantra. You probably say it in your sleep.

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7 hours ago, 47er said:

I just told you---because the Labour Party isn't racist or nationalistic enough for them. But you just keep repeating the same thing like a mantra. You probably say it in your sleep.

It's like a toddler isn't it - why won't you give me the answer that I want?

 

Being kind though @chaddyrovers i'll explain again why I think Labour can't be elected. 

1) Brexit and nationalism. I find it strange how you ignore this after banging on so long about how the Tories represented the will of the people on this. But it is very clear that Brexit and nationalism was and is a key motivating factor of why people are voting Tory. Labour is less nationalistic, and therefore a less attractive option. Unfortunately there is also a racist overtone in this (although I stress this does not cover all nationalism.whatsoever) as seen more by UKIP and the like. Tories can appeal to and attract these votes, which is something Labour steers well clear of. 

2) Corbyn was a marmite figure and unfortunately for Labour many more fell on the dislike rather than like. A recovery from that takes time. 

3) Mainstream media supports the Tories and strengthens their message leading voters that way. I'm not talking about the right wing press, although there is a lot of this and it has that affect, but allegedly.middle of the road media like the BBC which is far from impartial. Let me give two recent examples from them - Boris accused of lies by opposition was one headline. What he said was clearly a lie, blatantly untrue. The article even had the facts in. However the headline downgrades it to accused of lying and at no point states he clearly did. Or another Starmer was criticized for visiting a vaccine centre at a church with anti LGTB views. Main article is talking about how he was criticised and apologised for this, that's the headline, but makes only passing reference to the fact Prince Charles and Boris both visited there too. The latter coming under no scrutiny. 

When the media is against you it is very hard to influence people's opinions. 

4) Tribalism - people aren't voting on what they do but for a tribe. You say Labour don't represent what's important to people clearly making a big deal about what they do. Only that doesn't at a match up to how you evaluate the Tory party whatsoever does it? I mean you have ignored or excused every bit of wrongdoing that they have done. Your support for them remains unwavering. Clearly this indicates that it doesn't matter what they do! In other words you aren't voting on merit. Heck you aren't even voting on morals. Why are Labour losing seats - well in part because if people like you aren't voting on merit and irrespective of how corrupt the government is your support remains unstinting, then there is literally no way at all to win votes! Sadly this seems to be the case in a significant number of people at the moment, as there is more than enough of late from this government to get people to think again about supporting them.

Appreciate this isn't the answer you want but it might be more accurate. Also appreciate a repost. 

 

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You do wonder who Labour ever came to power, as all the points you raise above where in play back in the 90's, even Corbyn and his anti-semite views and support for terrorists, sat on the back benches causing mischief. 

These are nothing more than excuses to cover up the failings of a once great party, a party lost with no direction, no policies and ever dwindling support on the doorstep. 

Corbyn was the final nail in the Labour coffin, he should apologies to ever Labour supporter in the country for putting Tories into power for the next 10-20yrs, scandal, corruption and all...

 

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14 minutes ago, Gav said:

You do wonder who Labour ever came to power, as all the points you raise above where in play back in the 90's, even Corbyn and his anti-semite views and support for terrorists, sat on the back benches causing mischief. 

These are nothing more than excuses to cover up the failings of a once great party, a party lost with no direction, no policies and ever dwindling support on the doorstep. 

Corbyn was the final nail in the Labour coffin, he should apologies to ever Labour supporter in the country for putting Tories into power for the next 10-20yrs, scandal, corruption and all...

 

Excuses? 

Look am not trying to absolve Labour of weakness but to dismiss these all as excuses is I think somewhat dismissive at best. In play perhaps but far from as prominent. 

There clearly wasn't the same strong anti-EU sentiment when Labour were in power. Elements were there but they were very much more on the margins. One example of this was UKIP and Brexit parties being seperate to the Tory party. Present but not front and centre. 

Or taking the mainstream media. I used BBC news for years and it's only been in the last year or so I have noticed a significant change in objectiveness. Annicdotal perhaps but born from reading BBC news regularly. Also, I recall prior to Labours first win under Blair the Sun announcing they were supporting Labour. Now I appreciate neither of these things conclusively proves my point but is evidence it is more than excuses. 

On increase in tribalism that I think is fairly well documented. I remember when studying last year reading a number of papers on tribalism increasing and you only have to moon at the US under Trump to see this is a growing trend. Heck you only have to read certain posters to see that is the case. 

One final thing I would add on this is that there has never in my lifetime been a government like this. So many firsts - illegally poroguing parliament, breaking the ministerial code and staying on, intending to break international law and deals that they signed, such widespread corruption on a scale not seen before, ministers staying in post after huge muck ups. Seen it a before? I'd say the reverse we ha e never had a government like this. Not the same old whatsoever.

 

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1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

It's like a toddler isn't it - why won't you give me the answer that I want?

 

Being kind though @chaddyrovers i'll explain again why I think Labour can't be elected. 

1) Brexit and nationalism. I find it strange how you ignore this after banging on so long about how the Tories represented the will of the people on this. But it is very clear that Brexit and nationalism was and is a key motivating factor of why people are voting Tory. Labour is less nationalistic, and therefore a less attractive option. Unfortunately there is also a racist overtone in this (although I stress this does not cover all nationalism.whatsoever) as seen more by UKIP and the like. Tories can appeal to and attract these votes, which is something Labour steers well clear of. 

2) Corbyn was a marmite figure and unfortunately for Labour many more fell on the dislike rather than like. A recovery from that takes time. 

3) Mainstream media supports the Tories and strengthens their message leading voters that way. I'm not talking about the right wing press, although there is a lot of this and it has that affect, but allegedly.middle of the road media like the BBC which is far from impartial. Let me give two recent examples from them - Boris accused of lies by opposition was one headline. What he said was clearly a lie, blatantly untrue. The article even had the facts in. However the headline downgrades it to accused of lying and at no point states he clearly did. Or another Starmer was criticized for visiting a vaccine centre at a church with anti LGTB views. Main article is talking about how he was criticised and apologised for this, that's the headline, but makes only passing reference to the fact Prince Charles and Boris both visited there too. The latter coming under no scrutiny. 

When the media is against you it is very hard to influence people's opinions. 

4) Tribalism - people aren't voting on what they do but for a tribe. You say Labour don't represent what's important to people clearly making a big deal about what they do. Only that doesn't at a match up to how you evaluate the Tory party whatsoever does it? I mean you have ignored or excused every bit of wrongdoing that they have done. Your support for them remains unwavering. Clearly this indicates that it doesn't matter what they do! In other words you aren't voting on merit. Heck you aren't even voting on morals. Why are Labour losing seats - well in part because if people like you aren't voting on merit and irrespective of how corrupt the government is your support remains unstinting, then there is literally no way at all to win votes! Sadly this seems to be the case in a significant number of people at the moment, as there is more than enough of late from this government to get people to think again about supporting them.

Appreciate this isn't the answer you want but it might be more accurate. Also appreciate a repost. 

 

Reposted as requested but he won't read it as it's far too long

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37 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

One final thing I would add on this is that there has never in my lifetime been a government like this. So many firsts - illegally poroguing parliament, breaking the ministerial code and staying on, intending to break international law and deals that they signed, such widespread corruption on a scale not seen before, ministers staying in post after huge muck ups. Seen it a before? I'd say the reverse we ha e never had a government like this. Not the same old whatsoever.

 

Add an interesting point to that list. WHAT ABOUT FISHING?!!

Flavour of the month during the referendum, critical issue when government was negotiating the terms of leaving with the EU.

What now? Nothing. They've been shafted again and no-one cares. There's no intention whatsoever to improve their lot. They were just pawns in a political game. Even Gav doesn't mention it anymore!

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Fishing industry and Northern Ireland were thrown under the bus to "get Brexit done" and please the Red Wallers. The Red Wallers don't realise they'll be "used" as mugs in the same way when it is politiically expedient for the Tories to do so. Staying in power is their only objective and they don't care who they lie to in order to achieve it. 

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1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Labour attacks "Tory sleaze" amid Greensill lobbying row

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56743426

Starmer was wrong to say the "return" of sleaze because it has never gone away

And he should call it by its correct name: Tory corruption

Surprise you didnt watch PMQ Jim live?

Let's see what the independent investigation finds into all this. Report due in June.

Its correct that they should be independent investigation in this things and find if any wrong doings then any Ministers should face the sack.

Labour try to bring in a motion today into the commons to have a new select Committee to investigate the lobbying of Government. This was rejected by a vote in the commons. As the chairman of Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee William Wragg that his committee will investigate such claims of wrongdoing and no need for new committee to be form

 

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Keir Starmer in PMQs today

“The prime minister says there is going to be an inquiry but the person he has appointed worked for the same law firm which lobbied to loosen lobbying laws.”

So there you have it. The corrupt Tory government's "independent" inquiry into Tory corruption will decide there's no problem with Tory corruption

What is it about Eton? The most corrupt politician in British history (Robert Walpole) was educated there. Running close behind him is another Eton alumni, B. Johnson. As is influence-peddler D. Cameron. 

The list goes on and on. 

Maybe it is the feeling of entitlement which goes with having parents who can pay the annual £48K basic fees?

The Red Wallers will know how hard that is

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  • Backroom

I'm glad someone in Parliament finally called out the lack of equality in Covid briefings albeit still too late.

Signing the question instead of saying it proved the point fantastically.

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5 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Labour attacks "Tory sleaze" amid Greensill lobbying row

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56743426

Starmer was wrong to say the "return" of sleaze because it has never gone away

And he should call it by its correct name: Tory corruption

They always overreach themselves in the end. There’s no limit to their greed. 

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19 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Keir Starmer in PMQs today

“The prime minister says there is going to be an inquiry but the person he has appointed worked for the same law firm which lobbied to loosen lobbying laws.”

So there you have it. The corrupt Tory government's "independent" inquiry into Tory corruption will decide there's no problem with Tory corruption

What is it about Eton? The most corrupt politician in British history (Robert Walpole) was educated there. Running close behind him is another Eton alumni, B. Johnson. As is influence-peddler D. Cameron. 

The list goes on and on. 

Maybe it is the feeling of entitlement which goes with having parents who can pay the annual £48K basic fees?

The Red Wallers will know how hard that is

What chance have you got against a tie and a crest Jim? 

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What is the Labour Party coming to in the last few days we have seen Liz Kendall pitting care workers against Supermarket workers and Rachel Reeves happy for Trade Unions (who founded the Labour Party) to register as lobbyists. You really have to wonder who the current Labour Party speak for.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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"Whatabboutterry alert"

There are lots of low-information people who are very quick to shout "disgusting" with ridiculous  faux outrage whenever alleged and exaggerated anti-semitism in the Labour party is mentioned

In fact, they're permanently "digusted" whenever Jeremy speaks.

So what about this....why don't they find this "disgusting" too and why haven't they pointed it out before? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56680478

This repulsive slob sexually harassed a 21-year old female employee ands refused to stop, even after she told him her mental health was suffering, suggesting that messing around with him could cure her

Boris Johnson has decided that this sexual predator will face no formal consequences for his actions, and he won't even have the Tory whip removed

This story, which was of course played down or totally ignored by the right wing media, is (truly) "disgusting" behaviour and it is totally unacceptable that it is tolerated by the Tory party, which is rapidly descending into a cesspit of sleaze similar to the 1990s.

But with a philanderer and lying crook in No 10 no one should be surprised

 

 

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From this weeks “ Private Eye “

” It’s important that, whoever people are, wether they’re Prime Ministers or anyone else “. Rishi Sunak told ITV’s Robert Peston recently, “ they follow the rules and the guidelines we have in place for lobbying “.

A few days later, freedom of information requests from the Sunday Times revealed texts the chancellor had sent to David Cameron in response to the latter’s lobbying for support for Greenville Capitol through a Bank of England run scheme. In the first, Sunak promised to call Cameron to discuss the matter. Then, three weeks later, he told the ex PM ; “ I have pushed the Treasury team to explore an alternative with the Bank of England that might work.”

If the phone call did occur and officials weren’t summoned to witness it , this would have been a breach of the ministerial code, which states: “ A private secretary or official should be present for all discussions relating to government business “. Private chats with former political colleagues turned lobbyists are a no-no.

The code is also clear on the requirements not to lean on mandarins to give special treatment, stating that a minister must “ not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code “. This code demands that civil servants do not “ act in a way that unjustifiably favours or discriminates against particular individuals or interests “. Sunak had clearly asked civil servants to discriminate in Greensill’s favour.

 

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has some questions to answer too. In 2019, he met Cameron for a ministerial code breaking “ private drink “ to talk about flogging Greensill’s wares to the NHS. “ Allies “ of Hancock’s have said that, since he de-briefed  officials on the chat afterwards, he followed the rules. Not so. This let out applies to the more accidental situation where a minister “ finds themselves discussing official business without an official present - for example at a social occasion or on holiday “, not to a pre-arranged private chat.

These episodes present clear grounds for an investigation by the Prime Minister’s adviser on ministerial interests. Alas, that position is still vacant after the resignation of Sir Alex Allen over Boris Johnson’s refusal to sack Home Secretary Pritti Patel “.

 

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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