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5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Any answers to my questions I posed @jim mk2

Over the years there would be dozens, maybe hundreds, of questions I and others have asked you. You've treated us with contempt. If you have answered at all its to say you answered that question 3 weeks ago when you avoided it then or you've responded with "look at the polls".

So why should Jim or anyone else  respond to what is pure Tory propaganda from you? There you are, another question for you to ignore!

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8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

How do Labour recover for it and who is right to lead this change?

Labour has a leader, he'll be given his chance.

What's it got to do with you? 

Why are you so obsessed about the Labour leadership?

Edited by 47er
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7 hours ago, 47er said:

Labour has a leader, he'll be given his chance.

What's it got to do with you? 

Why are you so obsessed about the Labour leadership?

He seems to me to be asking a very genuine question, thats how these messageboards work 47er.

How about having a bit of courtesy and trying to answer, nobodys going to hold that against you, its not a trick or a trap.

Otherwise why are you here? 

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2 hours ago, Gav said:

He seems to me to be asking a very genuine question, thats how these messageboards work 47er.

How about having a bit of courtesy and trying to answer, nobodys going to hold that against you, its not a trick or a trap.

Otherwise why are you here? 

Exactly Gav. At least you do answer the questions but why won't Jim answer the questions I posed I wonder? or other Labour voters or members? Don't have the answers but then exactly me to answer their questions. 

 

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3 hours ago, Gav said:

He seems to me to be asking a very genuine question, thats how these messageboards work 47er.

How about having a bit of courtesy and trying to answer, nobodys going to hold that against you, its not a trick or a trap.

Otherwise why are you here? 

Surely Gav you are taking the piss? If you're not Chaddy is, and has been for months. You can't be taking him seriously as a genuinely interested political observer can you?

He really couldn't care less who the Labour leader is so long as he loses!

I've answered him quite honestly from my point of view but he's only interested in stirring it up, same old questions, same old targets day after day.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I've been saying this before that Labour have lost working class voters and have no plans or policies how to get them back. 

I have asked specific questions to Party member Jim and other Labour Voters of how you get them back? apart from Gav and Ewood Ace no one else answer. Wonder why? 

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3 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Yes, shows there are articles critical of labour in that disgusting rag---not like the Sun,Mail, Express et al.

The trouble is--how can Labour appeal to the northern working class? No-one ever answers that because they know the answer. The Labour MP's quoted in that article certainly don't. And the reason is that if Labour panders to a group of voters who would like to see Labour more nationalistic and more hostile to immigration and less inclusive, then they would lose their middle-class supporters and their vote in London. As well as any vestige of principle of course.

Very tough for Labour right now. Everyone who crows about Hartlepool should remember that Labour only held on to that seat by a small majority because UKIP got 25% of the vote last time. Those racists have now found their  home in the Conservative Party.

Edited by 47er
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7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've been saying this before that Labour have lost working class voters and have no plans or policies how to get them back. 

I have asked specific questions to Party member Jim and other Labour Voters of how you get them back? apart from Gav and Ewood Ace no one else answer. Wonder why? 

I answered you directly. Don't lie. Don't be like Boris.

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2 minutes ago, 47er said:

Yes, shows there are articles critical of labour in that disgusting rag---not like the Sun,Mail, Express et al.

The trouble is--how can Labour appeal to the northern working class? No-one ever answers that because they know the answer. The Labour MP's quoted in that article certainly don't. And the reason is that if Labour panders to a group of voters who would like to see Labour more nationalistic and more hostile to immigration and less inclusive, then they would lose their middle-class supporters and their vote in London. As well as any vestige of principal of course.

Very tough for Labour right now. Everyone who crows about Hartlepool should remember that Labour only held on to that seat by a small majority because UKIP got 25% of the vote last time. Those racists have now found their  home in the Conservative Party.

I assume you are making the judgement that the people who have moved away from Labour are in their entirety racist / xenophobic.

I would argue that such an assumption is what has driven such voters away in the numbers they have.

There is an apparent 'culture war' within this country that I think Labour have found themselves on the wrong side of. There are plenty of people living in nice middle class areas that enjoy telling the old Blackburners of Audley Range that nothing has changed, their town is still the same and that the mass immigration policies of governments before have nothing to do with their way of life being turned upside down.

However this culture war extends far beyond immigration and into all aspects of life - gender 'fluidity', working norms, housing, acceptable 'language' etc. The only thing Labour seem to get right is their policies on public spending but even then it doesn't seem to resonate enough when it comes to their stance on other cultural problems.

Like it or not it is one of the biggest issues in Europe right now, and the rise of right wing politicians is because successive liberal governments failed to properly measure the impacts mass immigration would have, and instead chose for a huge cheap workforce they could exploit whilst assuming people would be happy with seeing their areas change entirely. For the good or the worse is your call.

Immigration has changed this country for the better in some areas, but it has also lead to a disenfranchised Northern working class who have been disproportionately affected by it in comparison to the middle class people that enjoy their virtue signalling whilst living in an almost exclusively British neighbourhood, where they are exempt from the tensions such cultural shifts force.

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26 minutes ago, 47er said:

Those racists have now found their  home in the Conservative Party.

The Brexit vote was all about immigration in the run up to 2016 (but hardly mentioned since) - the badly informed Red Wallers thought Johnson was going to "kick all the Poles out" they were "going to get their country back". They must be devastated to see so many brown faces in the Cabinet but will vote for them nonetheless. 

Aside from their racist instincts and their dislike of most foreigners, the real question is why the Red Wallers think voting Tory is in line with their interests.

Someone needs to tell Fred in Hartlepool that it took a footballer to shame his party into providing free school meals for disadvantaged and hungry children. But it probably still wouldn't register

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Gav said:

They're genuine questions from what I can tell.

We used to have 20 posters in this section of the board, most left due to this very issue.

Just saying..

They might be genuine questions, but they are hypocritical too.

Chaddy's record of answering questions on politics is virtually nil. Even more stark when you can see all the hidden posts too.

I also suspect he can't/won't answer questions precisely because he's either scared of being wrong or knows he is and doesn't care.

His best efforts are about an incident involving his MP a year ago, without a single comment (let alone condemnation) on anything to do with Conservative cronyism, racism, sexism, or just general sleaze.

Without such comment (in fact outright refusal), it leads me to believe he supports cronyism, racism, sexism and general sleaze and all because he's too scared to admit that we all occasionally make poor judgements.

Edited by Mike E
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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I assume you are making the judgement that the people who have moved away from Labour are in their entirety racist / xenophobic.

 

You always do this. I never said or believed that. You're another one who doesn't do nuance.

Other than that you make some very good points. 

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6 hours ago, Gav said:

He seems to me to be asking a very genuine question, thats how these messageboards work 47er.

How about having a bit of courtesy and trying to answer, nobodys going to hold that against you, its not a trick or a trap.

Otherwise why are you here? 

Blimey Gav. Have you been paying attention?

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17 minutes ago, 47er said:

You always do this. I never said or believed that. You're another one who doesn't do nuance.

Other than that you make some very good points. 

Sorry, I just made an assumption based on this paragraph:

Quote

The trouble is--how can Labour appeal to the northern working class? No-one ever answers that because they know the answer. The Labour MP's quoted in that article certainly don't. And the reason is that if Labour panders to a group of voters who would like to see Labour more nationalistic and more hostile to immigration and less inclusive, then they would lose their middle-class supporters and their vote in London. As well as any vestige of principal of course.

It seemed to me that you believed they lost the northern working class vote because they weren't nationalist enough and that if they tried to appeal to that nationalism they would lose their principles.

If I misunderstood that's fine but I wouldn't say it is for a lack of nuance.

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55 minutes ago, den said:

Blimey Gav. Have you been paying attention?

To be honest den, he answers more questions than you do 😎

 

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4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

The Brexit vote was all about immigration in the run up to 2016 (but hardly mentioned since) -

Its people like you Jim thats don't understand why people voted to leave the EU. If you think its was down to Immigration then you are deluded yet again Jim. 

No response to my questions yet Jim? maybe you can get a class friend to help you? 

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Its people like you Jim thats don't understand why people voted to leave the EU. If you think its was down to Immigration then you are deluded yet again Jim. 

No response to my questions yet Jim? maybe you can get a class friend to help you? 

 

Oh yes it was, It was a major factor according to the BSA study, but you keep telling yourself that if it helps

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-racism-immigrant-prejudice-major-factor-leave-vote-win-study-a7801676.htm

 

image.thumb.png.4d1524a5d9fc07a1731c260a6a46df8b.png

 

Prejudice against immigrants from the European Union was a “major” deciding factor in the Brexit referendum, according to a new study.

But people who actually met foreigners living in Britain tended to have a positive experience and this appears to have helped persuade many people to vote Remain, the researchers found.

The results suggest that the Brexit campaign’s emphasis on immigration – dubbed “Project Hate” by the pro-EU camp – was politically astute.

One pro-Leave poster – showing a line of refugees with the headline “Breaking Point, the EU has failed us all” and urging people to “take back control of our borders” – was compared to Nazi propaganda. Ukip said it “utterly rejects the association”.

After the referendum, police reported a tripling of hate crimes in some of the most Eurosceptic parts of the UK.

The lead researcher of the new study, Dr Rose Meleady, said their findings helped explain an apparently counter-intuitive voting pattern – that areas with low numbers of immigrants were more likely to back Brexit.

“It is the contact that predicts prejudice towards immigrants, and prejudice was a predictor of how people intended to vote,” she said.

l

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3 hours ago, Mike E said:

They might be genuine questions, but they are hypocritical too.

Chaddy's record of answering questions on politics is virtually nil. Even more stark when you can see all the hidden posts too.

They were very genuine questions Mike. 

I've answered more than my fair share of questions on the Politics thread I would say Mike. 

Should you really be disclosing my hidden posts on the forum in your role as moderator, surely this wrong? @K-Hod, @J*B? Surely these hidden posts should remain private and not be disclose publicly?

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

I also suspect he can't/won't answer questions precisely because he's either scared of being wrong or knows he is and doesn't care.

More than happy to answer but please don't moan if you don't get the answer you want?

Maybe these members questions don't get answer due to being on my ignore list?

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

His best efforts are about an incident involving his MP a year ago, without a single comment (let alone condemnation) on anything to do with Conservative cronyism, racism, sexism, or just general sleaze.

Without such comment (in fact outright refusal), it leads me to believe he supports cronyism, racism, sexism and general sleaze and all because he's too scared to admit that we all occasionally make poor judgements.

Do I need to comment on every single news story Mike? 

I always said that they should be an independent investigation into the Cameron lobbying claim which is happening by 3 different bodies including 2 select committees holding investigations/hearings on it. 

What Sexism? You mean the claim about Mark Francois which the Police didn't take any further despite Philipl on here saying he would be facing charges from Police in coming days. 

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15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Should you really be disclosing my hidden posts on the forum in your role as moderator, surely this wrong? @K-Hod, @J*B? Surely these hidden posts should remain private and not be disclose publicly?

Give over Chaddy, he's not disclosed anything private at all has he.

Please spare us the faux outrage.

I think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick anyway. I assume he's probably referencing hiding posts of people repetitively asking you the same questions. 

Often, the mod team don't want threads spammed or derailed with the same stuff over and over. So, if people are asking the same thing we might leave the original and hide the next 3 or 4 times it's mentioned as it serves no purpose. 

Sounds fair enough right.

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