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17 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Not you though eh den, nothing gets by you. Deary me. What a quite huge leap you have taken there. 

He's right though.

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Thought I would offer an insight into the School Meal Voucher scheme being used to provide vouchers to those parents and children that need it desperately.  The scheme is provided by Edenred a co

This sermon is brought to you by the Daily Mail. Victim-blaming repugnant nonsense. 

You need to completely change your perspective. Do you think they don’t realise how dangerous is?  They don’t have other options. Of course it’s dangerous but the alternative, for most, is l

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56 minutes ago, den said:

So...

Theres a story being missed here in this “did he say it, didn’t he say it” saga.

Cummings said Johnson locked down too late in first instance.

Johnson accused of locking down too late for second lockdown.

Johnson stopped all testing at one point last March, allowing the virus to run free - until the scientists told him he was heading for 250,000 deaths.

Two witnesses prepared to stand under oath and say Johnson did say “let the bodies pile high”. 
 

Anyone get it? Following the science they said and some people believed it. Mainly because they wanted to believe it.
 

 

Cummings said Johnson locked down too late in first instance.

That is nonsense, they acted on the data they had at the time, you can't blame them for that. But if they'd locked down in January, without any data it would have saved lives, but the crystal ball wasn't working. 

Johnson accused of locking down too late for second lockdown.

That is true, he also opened up to soon, the virus was ripping through the North at the time and R rate was still high north of Watford

Johnson stopped all testing at one point last March, allowing the virus to run free - until the scientists told him he was heading for 250,000 deaths.

This isn't true either, we didn't have testing capacity to keep up, thats why testing stopped, you can't test if you have no tests.

He should resign if its proven he came out with that comment about piling bodies high.

 

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27 minutes ago, Gav said:

Cummings said Johnson locked down too late in first instance.

That is nonsense, they acted on the data they had at the time, you can't blame them for that. But if they'd locked down in January, without any data it would have saved lives, but the crystal ball wasn't working. 

Johnson accused of locking down too late for second lockdown.

That is true, he also opened up to soon, the virus was ripping through the North at the time and R rate was still high north of Watford

Johnson stopped all testing at one point last March, allowing the virus to run free - until the scientists told him he was heading for 250,000 deaths.

This isn't true either, we didn't have testing capacity to keep up, thats why testing stopped, you can't test if you have no tests.

He should resign if its proven he came out with that comment about piling bodies high.

 

18.1M people arrived in UK by air in the 3 months before lockdown. How many were quarantined?---273!!!

Travellers from high-risk countries eg China,Iran and Italy were advised to self-isolate but it wasn't compulsory.

Plenty on here had more sense than that and were demanding that the borders be closed.

Sage documents show that ministers were warned on 21 September that UK faced "catastrophic consequences" unless there was a second lockdown. At that time cases were doubling  every week--"eat out to help out"---remember that one?

Instead Johnson introduced his "tiers system". This allowed infections to continue to rise  in areas of least infection until they reached the threshold for the most severe measures.

Between the time Sage called for a second lockdown and it being finally introduced, infections rose fivefold.

Info from the Guardian--check your wife's copy!

TOO SLOW TOO LATE is the only reasonable conclusion.

 

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Just a quick one on this (assuming I can prevent myself ranting). Did they lock down too late first time round - resounding yes. 

Not saying it was a month or two overdue or anything like that but a week or two before lockdown they were advising people to avoid cafes and the like whilst not forcing said places to close. 

That shows they knew the lockdown should be in place but didn't have the balls to do it. Instead they gave cowardly advice that hung those industries out to dry, discouraging people from going to them, but offering no firm rules or compensation leaving businesses to close on their own. Disgusting. 

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Under Johnson's watch:

1.  His "superman of capitalism" strategy of allowing the virus to spread in the crucial early stages of the pandemic turned out to be a disaster

2.  His government's £30bn (make up your own figure) Test and Trace remains dysfunctional because it's been treated like a corporate slush fund rather than a public health necessity

3. Rishi Sunak's £850 million "Eat Out to Help Out" scheme last summer exacerbated the situation by spreading the virus around again when it was in decline

4. Johnson encouraging people to mix over Christmas ended up delivering the highest death rate in the world a few weeks later.

Whether it was his intention to "let the bodies pile high" or not, piles of bodies is what Johnson's mishandling of the crisis delivered. 

Johnson is guilty of relentless lying and corruption and downright incompetence. He should have been removed from power long ago

 

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

18.1M people arrived in UK by air in the 3 months before lockdown. How many were quarantined?---273!!!

Travellers from high-risk countries eg China,Iran and Italy were advised to self-isolate but it wasn't compulsory.

Plenty on here had more sense than that and were demanding that the borders be closed

 

I don't think den is referring to closing borders, but locking down our citizens 47er, national lockdown.

The borders still aren't closed, plenty have been coming in unchecked, its a shit show.

But the main point is Johnson talking about stacking bodies up, if he said that he must resign.

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Well I wasn't referring to Den's post in that particular Gav. I was merely reiterating what a mess the government made of it in the beginning, and later on for that matter! You refer to a crystal ball--you didn't need one to make the common sense decisions I'm pointing out were  not made. Johnson was and is a libertarian. He put his own beliefs in front of the needs of the nation. The countries that did best locked down their borders---early and decisively. Singapore is  reckoned to be the safest places in the world in this Covid pandemic---a denser population would be hard to find!

As for testing, centralising it under the control of a Tory chum without the qualifications and ability to do the job queered that one. I said at the time the Councils had the personnel, expertise and experience to  track and trace but Boris knew better of course. 

 

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3 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Not you though eh den, nothing gets by you. Deary me. What a quite huge leap you have taken there. 

It’s a huge leap if you don’t want to jump in the first place.

Edited by den
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50 minutes ago, den said:

It’s a huge leap if you don’t want to jump in the first place.

Nah, still not having it. You have form for these “I know better” posts but with this one you’ve not put any tangible links except for some half assed assessments of what Johnson did (excluding of course the advice and role of SAGE in all of this). 
 

For example, you’ve totally dismissed that SAGE first thought of this as an influenza styled pandemic, and therefore would have used cobra meetings to advise the govt on control strategies perhaps unsuited to the illness Covid-19. 
 

You have also totally dismissed Jenny Harries (name check?) being the one who first advised and argued for the eradication of mass testing in March as they looked at Europe and deduced the virus was already here. The mistake, of course, was then not having T&T in the right place AFTER the first lockdown. 
 

Your post and comments make out like what you are saying is obvious but frankly it’s a poor attempt at yet another “I told you so” post 

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50 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Nah, still not having it. You have form for these “I know better” posts but with this one you’ve not put any tangible links except for some half assed assessments of what Johnson did (excluding of course the advice and role of SAGE in all of this). 
 

For example, you’ve totally dismissed that SAGE first thought of this as an influenza styled pandemic, and therefore would have used cobra meetings to advise the govt on control strategies perhaps unsuited to the illness Covid-19. 
 

You have also totally dismissed Jenny Harries (name check?) being the one who first advised and argued for the eradication of mass testing in March as they looked at Europe and deduced the virus was already here. The mistake, of course, was then not having T&T in the right place AFTER the first lockdown. 
 

Your post and comments make out like what you are saying is obvious but frankly it’s a poor attempt at yet another “I told you so” post 

Tangible links?

Cummings said Johnson locked down late.

Johnson did stop all testing last March.

witnesses said Johnson did say “let the bodies pile up” - rather than go into another lockdown.

If you can’t see from that, how Johnson didn’t want to lock down at any stage - and that went against all medical/scientific opinion, then I can’t help you.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

For example, you’ve totally dismissed that SAGE first thought of this as an influenza styled pandemic, and therefore would have used cobra meetings to advise the govt on control strategies perhaps unsuited to the illness Covid-19. 

 Would that be the 5 cobra meetings that Johnson missed in the midst of a global pandemic and national emergency ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/michael-gove-fails-to-deny-pm-missed-five-coronavirus-cobra-meetings

Unbelievably, the government were briefing after this revelation that it's "normal" for PMs to miss Cobra meetings and while there are a few examples of previous PMs missing Cobra meetings, often when they were overseas, even the Tories couldn't even come up with five examples of PMs skipping Cobra meetings during a major crisis, let alone five skipped meetings in a row.

I'm no fan of Cameron or May but when things got serious, at least they actually bothered to turn up and make a show of leadership, rather than pathetically hiding from the responsibility.

And  instead of making excuses for the government's disastrous handling of the pandemic this article from the Sunday Times would fill the gaps in your "knowledge". It's behind a paywall but then good journalism often is

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

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3 hours ago, Gav said:

That is nonsense, they acted on the data they had at the time, you can't blame them for that. But if they'd locked down in January, without any data it would have saved lives, but the crystal ball wasn't working. 

They had the wrong data because they were/are incompetent. When they realised the data was wrong and that the NHS was going to be overwhelmed in weeks they still took 2 weeks further before locking down. So, yes, they were at fault for thousands more deaths, yes it was avoidable, and therefore yes they are to blame. 

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3 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

They had the wrong data because they were/are incompetent. When they realised the data was wrong and that the NHS was going to be overwhelmed in weeks they still took 2 weeks further before locking down. So, yes, they were at fault for thousands more deaths, yes it was avoidable, and therefore yes they are to blame. 

Not to mention the amount of time it took for the government to make a simple yet effective precaution, the compulsory wearing of face masks, public policy.

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I’ve never known anything like this Government. They’re just totally incapable of telling the truth..., about anything.

Robert Peston...

Downing St has for the third time in five days put out a statement that is irrelevant to the central question, which is how long @BorisJohnson borrowed tens of thousands of pounds to pay for redecorating and refurbishing his Downing St home. This is all increasingly weird. I asked Downing St why they bothered to put it out and was told “because we have”. Here is the statement (again). ‘A No 10 spokesperson said: “Any costs of wider refurbishment this year beyond those provided for by the annual allowance have been met by the Prime Minister personally. Conservative Party funds are not being used for this.”’ As I said, this ducks the only important questions which are how long the PM borrowed from the Tory party, was it an interest free loan, how much was it, which donor or donors funded the Tory party, and so on?

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6 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

They had the wrong data because they were/are incompetent. When they realised the data was wrong and that the NHS was going to be overwhelmed in weeks they still took 2 weeks further before locking down. So, yes, they were at fault for thousands more deaths, yes it was avoidable, and therefore yes they are to blame. 

That has been put to bed more times than Keith Richards.

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Number 10 on Friday said that costs relating to the refurbishment this year had been met by Johnson, but on Monday did not deny the prime minister had initially received a loan from Tory headquarters to cover the work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56903838

A real news story would be Johnson telling the truth - about anything.

 

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15 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Number 10 on Friday said that costs relating to the refurbishment this year had been met by Johnson, but on Monday did not deny the prime minister had initially received a loan from Tory headquarters to cover the work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56903838

A real news story would be Johnson telling the truth - about anything.

 

Further questions have been raised tonight about his trip to Mustique which cost £15k, but who funded it Jim? 

Declarations are the issue here, the villa is owned by Carphone Warehouse founder David Ross.

A spokesman for Mr Ross, a long-time Tory donor, initially said that the tycoon had not paid for the trip, describing the claim as a ‘mistake’. They later backtracked, saying Mr Ross had ‘facilitated’ the holiday in December 2019.

Kathryn Stone, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, agreed to a Labour request to launch an inquiry. 

More than a year later, a Tory source has said that concern is mounting that Mr Johnson could be reprimanded over his failure to register the involvement of The Mustique Company, which owns the tiny paradise island. 

 

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Hundreds of thousands of leaseholders living in unsellable and potentially dangerous high-rise homes will continue to face fire safety bills of up to £100,000 each after MPs again voted against banning building owners from passing on remediation costs.

Love to hear any Conservative supporter's reaction to this. Shoddy building practices leaving innocent buyers of flats living in fear of fires, stuck wth flats that are unsellable and now with great debt.

Meanwhile those responsible keep their profits.

If ever there was an example of Toryism at work, this is it.

Edited by 47er
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Labour should be all over this (generally) in the run up to the local elections.

It's such an open goal. Time to take a leaf out of the Tory book and smear the flip out of your opponents.

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4 minutes ago, Dreyski said:

Labour should be all over this (generally) in the run up to the local elections.

It's such an open goal. Time to take a leaf out of the Tory book and smear the flip out of your opponents.

They have nobody with any gravitas or charisma to come on TV and call the tories out effectively.   One of the weakest shadow cabinets I can remember 

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42 minutes ago, 47er said:

Hundreds of thousands of leaseholders living in unsellable and potentially dangerous high-rise homes will continue to face fire safety bills of up to £100,000 each after MPs again voted against banning building owners from passing on remediation costs.

Love to hear any Conservative supporter's reaction to this. Shoddy building practices leaving innocent buyers of flats living in fear of fires, stuck wth flats that are unsellable and now with great debt.

Meanwhile those responsible keep their profits.

If ever there was an example of Toryism at work, this is it.

 

Building and construction companies are of course major Tory donors

It stinks, like everything else this government touches

 

 

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