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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, lsp82 said:

Just a little history on Hamas. Founded in 1987 created by Israel by illegal annexation of palestinian land, the destruction of palestinian rights, the murder of its citizens, the blocking of its borders, the control of its water and electricity, the refusal to allow Palestians back into their own country. 

Hamas actually wanted peace all they asked was land illegally taken back, reparations for suffering and palestinians living abroad to be allowed back in. It is the Israelis who refuse this time and again. 

It’s obviously an emotive subject for you Isp and rightly so.

But I do have a problem with Hamas, who under its charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

I wish your wifes family well.

 

Edited by Gav
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Thought I would offer an insight into the School Meal Voucher scheme being used to provide vouchers to those parents and children that need it desperately.  The scheme is provided by Edenred a co

This sermon is brought to you by the Daily Mail. Victim-blaming repugnant nonsense. 

You need to completely change your perspective. Do you think they don’t realise how dangerous is?  They don’t have other options. Of course it’s dangerous but the alternative, for most, is l

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Gav said:

It’s obviously an emotive subject for you Isp and rightly so.

But I do have a problem with Hamas, who under its charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

 

 

Thanks for your wishes Gav. 👍👍

I agree that in its infancy and upto 2006 it refused to agree to cede any land to Israel and wanted them out of all Palestinian land they have held since 1948. Basically no Israel. Gav since its involvement in the elections and being part of the PA it has become more moderate in its views and is now firmly behind a two state solution as written in its 2017 Document of General Principles and Policies.

It seems Hamas is moving towards a peaceful solution more than Israel. 

Edited by lsp82
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49 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 What's your view on Corbyn, who has backed the Palestinians and spoken out against Israel all his life yet, like many people who have dared to criticise the Israelis, was tarred as "anti-semitic" by the right wing media? 

You know what that was all about Jim, just like I do. The right wing of the Parliamentary Labour Party wanted Corbyn out from day one because he’s a left winger. The Israeli government wanted him out from day one because of his support for Palestine.

All pals together in the cause. It just took them a while to get their act together. I think they call it “ fitting up “ in the vernacular.

It worked like a charm with electorate, but it didn’t fool me for a minute.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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13 minutes ago, Gav said:

It’s obviously an emotive subject for you Isp and rightly so.

But I do have a problem with Hamas, who under its charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

Hamas in it's charter now recognizes the 1967 border's (unlike Israel) for a Palestinian state. But even if Hamas did want to destroy Israel they and Gaza simply do not have anything like the means to do so, bar some rockets Gaza is already fighting Einstein's World War 4 (whilst Israel is a nuclear armed state). Of course Israel however has already wiped a country of the map, it was called Palestine.

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33 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You know what that was all about Jim, just like I do. The right wing of the Parliamentary Labour Party wanted Corbyn out from day one because he’s a left winger. The Israeli government wanted him out from day one because of his support for Palestine.

All pals together in the cause. It just took them a while to get their act together. I think they call it “ fitting up “ in the vernacular.

It worked like a charm with electorate, but it didn’t fool me for a minute.

..... and the right wing press, the Tories and the BBC used it as a stick to beat him and the Labour party with.  So many Labour figures branded "anti-semitic" and suspended or drummed out of the party just for speaking up against Israel. 

 

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Nurse who looked after Johnson in hospital resigns from NHS, criticising the government's handling of the pandemic and the insulting 1% pay rise for nurses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57162428

Story barely mentioned on BBC news tonight and it will be interesting to see how much coverage it gets in the press tomorrow. 

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11 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

..... and the right wing press, the Tories and the BBC used it as a stick to beat him and the Labour party with.  So many Labour figures branded "anti-semitic" and suspended or drummed out of the party just for speaking up against Israel. 

 

I heard a Jewish commentator on the TV last saying “ accusing the Israeli government of behaving like the Nazis is anti-Semitic “.

Well I beg to differ. If any government in any part of the world behaves in a similar fashion to the Nazis I reserve the right to describe them as Nazis.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it’s a duck ! 

Israel isn’t at that point yet in my opinion, but unless things change they are heading down that road.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces
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12 hours ago, lsp82 said:

As far as his views on Palestine and what is happening I completely agree and am glad he had the balls to stand up. His views on Israel are not anti semetic they are anti Israel/zionist. Just as those Jewish people who are protesting cannot be anti semetic! 

It is an easy brush to tar anti Israel sentiment with and looks good to the world after the tradegdy of the Holocaust. Yet there is a huge difference between the two. I have a Jewish friend who is equally appalled by Israel and doesn't recognise Israel as his land. 

And all Corbyn got for his stand against Israel was abuse and false accusations of anti-semitism. The  anti-semitism trope was always a stick to beat him and the Labour party with by an establishment petrified that he might become prime minister. The red wallers on the doorstep repeated the mantra because they always do what they're told by their "betters"

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15 hours ago, Gav said:

But I do have a problem with Hamas, who under its charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

but in real life would settle for a fair compromise.

Trouble is they won't get one and they know it.  More and more of their people will continue to live in a smaller and smaller space and be forbidden to leave.

This is genocide and that is the aim.

 

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2 hours ago, lsp82 said:

 

This is why Israelis will never want peace. 

I can't speak for the validity of this video because I haven't seen it anywhere else and that concerns me given its content. But CJ Weleman is a good journalist for the "Byline Times" and has wrote a good article on the plight of Muslims around the world:

https://bylinestimes.com/2021/05/17/modern-history-has-robbed-palestinians-and-muslims-of-friends-and-allies/

From the Rohingya to the Uighers to the Palestinians, there are a lot of dreadful acts of cultural genocide happening throughout the world by very powerful states. For one reason or the other each is being undermined or silenced because people have priorities that extend beyond seeing fair and equal treatment for all.

I don't think there is a government that escapes criticism in all of this. 

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1 hour ago, lsp82 said:

 

It's a stun grenade, and he hasn't pulled the pin yet. More of a threatening action. 

Not defending any of it or taking sides, just the tagline is a bit misleading. It's not the camera that stopped him, they would have been well aware of it.

If you look closely the bloke next to him that taps him on the back also has one in his hand. So, potentially, they were going to chuck 2 flashbangs at what we are told is a group of paramedics and journos.

Sounds bad enough in it's own, who knows what unnecessary mayhem that would cause. But it doesn't need embellished as some are already doing (not you btw).

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2 hours ago, Silas said:

It's a stun grenade, and he hasn't pulled the pin yet. More of a threatening action. 

Not defending any of it or taking sides, just the tagline is a bit misleading. It's not the camera that stopped him, they would have been well aware of it.

If you look closely the bloke next to him that taps him on the back also has one in his hand. So, potentially, they were going to chuck 2 flashbangs at what we are told is a group of paramedics and journos.

Sounds bad enough in it's own, who knows what unnecessary mayhem that would cause. But it doesn't need embellished as some are already doing (not you btw).

I am always very wary of these types of videos. I know the media is not the most trustworthy of sources in any case, but social media is even worse. 
As an example, my Instagram got inundated the other day of a video of a man kneeling on a child’s neck in a similar position to George Flloyd. It was attributed to Israel but turned out to be from Chile and over 5 years ago. 
 

It does not detract from either horror in either situation but it does fuel the fire so to speak. 

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I am always very wary of these types of videos. I know the media is not the most trustworthy of sources in any case, but social media is even worse. 

Yeah, it's a mess trying to work out what's fact and fiction, and I suppose also somewhere in between. 

To be fair, I'd seen messages about a grenade being thrown at an ambulance and thought people were exaggerating the above incident. But no, seems it did actually happen:

 

Certainly doesn't look like they give a crap about who films them doing it though. 

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Responding to a question in parliament from Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition Labour Party, Johnson said: "I share his horror at the outbreak of anti-Semitic incidents and the government has conveyed that message loud and clear to those who are responsible for enforcing the law against hate crime."

"As a country and as a society ... we call this out at every stage. We will not let it take root, we will not allow it to grow and fester."

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-pm-johnson-says-will-call-out-anti-semitism-after-rise-incidents-2021-05-19/

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So the govt are implementing a true socialist policy. They’re bringing the railways back into public control. Strange, as I don’t as yet see any outcry from any Tory voters?

Its to be called the “Great  British Railways”. 
 

Yippee 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👏🤣

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Just at a glance it looks like it could go either way. It all depends how effectively they end monopolies over routes as long as a company has a route, guaranteed for X years with no competitors it doesn't matter who's running the show, there's no incentive to provide a decent service. They're unlikely to go down the full privatisation as that would be an even more blatant copy and paste from Labour so they're likely going to keep private sector involvement so they need to create an environment where that can flourish rather than the monopoly we currently work under. 

 

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It was put to grant shapps this morning that it was a Labour policy and idea.

He said not, he said Labour wanted to go back to the bad old days of falling passenger numbers and line closures!

As if 😀😂

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1 hour ago, den said:

So the govt are implementing a true socialist policy. They’re bringing the railways back into public control. Strange, as I don’t as yet see any outcry from any Tory voters?

Its to be called the “Great  British Railways”. 
 

Yippee 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👏🤣

 They.re not though ...... it's the more of the same.

UK rail looks to private sector in biggest shake-up since 1990s

https://www.ft.com/content/1942e0a7-4ec9-45a7-91d6-bbe155a24c5c

Tory ideology still prevails

 

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1 hour ago, den said:

It was put to grant shapps this morning that it was a Labour policy and idea.

He said not, he said Labour wanted to go back to the bad old days of falling passenger numbers and line closures!

As if 😀😂

Shapps also said that it would bring an end to the outrageous situation where hundreds of people are employed just to work out whose fault a particular train service delay was. He didn't grasp the irony that it was the original Tory policy that created this.

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13 hours ago, den said:

So the govt are implementing a true socialist policy. They’re bringing the railways back into public control. Strange, as I don’t as yet see any outcry from any Tory voters?

Its to be called the “Great  British Railways”. 
 

Yippee 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👏🤣

Logic says it should be full denationalisation, Tory dogma determines it won't.

EDIT---meant to write denationalisation.

Edited by 47er
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1 hour ago, 47er said:

Logic says it should be full denationalisation, Tory dogma determines it won't.

 Don't you mean renationalistion?

 What matters is not efficient railways run in the public interest, but allowing rent-seekers to plunder public assets. Yet again

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